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Discussion: Your Gods are not what you think they are

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Stormopolis
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Postby Stormopolis » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:39 am

Ifreann wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:
Hang on let me find the quote then.

From Chapter 3 of Part 3 of Gulliver's Travels:


Von Däniken adds:



As for Jupiter, I'm not sure where I got that from. Including that was a bad on my part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_ ... peculation
Perhaps inspired by Johannes Kepler (and quoting Kepler's third law of planetary motion), Jonathan Swift's satire Gulliver's Travels (1726) refers to two moons in Part 3, Chapter 3 (the "Voyage to Laputa"), in which Laputa's astronomers are described as having discovered two satellites of Mars orbiting at distances of 3 and 5 Martian diameters with periods of 10 and 21.5 hours. The actual orbital distances of Phobos and Deimos are 1.4 and 3.5 Martian diameters, and their respective orbital periods are 7.6 and 30.3 hours.[4][5] In the 20th century, V. G. Perminov, a spacecraft designer of early Soviet Mars and Venus spacecraft, speculated Swift found and deciphered records that Martians left on Earth.[6] However, the view of most astronomers is that Swift was simply employing a common argument of the time, that as the inner planets Venus and Mercury had no satellites, Earth had one and Jupiter had four (known at the time), that Mars by analogy must have two. Furthermore, as they had not yet been discovered, it was reasoned that they must be small and close to Mars. This would lead Swift to making a roughly accurate estimate of their orbital distances and revolution periods. In addition Swift could have been helped in his calculations by his friend, the mathematician John Arbuthnot [7]

Voltaire's 1752 short story "Micromégas", about an alien visitor to Earth, also refers to two moons of Mars. Voltaire was presumably influenced by Swift.[8][9] In recognition of these 'predictions', two craters on Deimos are named Swift and Voltaire.[10][11]


Fair enough :clap:
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Engleberg
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Postby Engleberg » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:55 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Merizoc wrote:*Giorgio Tsoukalos intensifies*

Image
Khadgar wrote:There's no evidence advanced alien life has ever visited Earth or even exists at all.
Yeah, this kind of theory does not do it for me.


I was just about to put that picture.

Anyway, no, I don't support the theory that they are aliens.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:01 am

Stormopolis wrote:What do you think of this?


The whole "ancient astronauts" stuff (Von Daeniken, Kolosimo, et al.) is just a load of pseudoscientific bullshit based on pareidolia, cherry-picking, confirmation bias and far-fetched hypotheses discarded by science.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:02 am

My god is precisely who and what I think he is. 8)
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:05 am


This is basically how all these ancient astronauts "theories" work. Someone doesn't understand something about the past, so they make up an explanation with aliens and call that made up explanation evidence. That's why people mock these "theories" and the people who posit them.
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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:19 am

Khadgar wrote:There's no evidence advanced alien life has ever visited Earth or even exists at all.

^this.

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Frank Zipper
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Postby Frank Zipper » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:19 am

Has anyone else noticed that Kim Kardashian bears a striking resemblance to Akhenaten?
Put this in your signature if you are easily led.

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:33 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Dushan wrote:I knew a Guy who seriously made a case about the abrahamitic God (Jaweh) actually being an Alien lifeform having visited Earth for his own nefarious purposes.

Unfortunatly for him, he got me a few Years too late for me to dig deeper his cool Story.

Aside from that I am not uninterested into that Topic but as a hard matter of fact:

If there had been, at any given time in the past, be a Civilization with advanced technology on Earth we would likely know much if not everything about them. We would have found their ruins, the remains of their Civilization. Any industrial and advanced Civilization leaves traces back.

And all we have found is that block in the Japanese Sea.

I want to believe though.


You say that, but I disagree with you here. How much of our history do we know? We know about 4000 years of "modern" history. Everything before the Sumerians' appearance is unknown. At that point we were nothing more than savages, but somehow, suddenly we live in cities and have great knowledge of engineering, metallurgy, and astronomy, to name a few? There is so much we don't know, and honestly, I find that the "helping hand" theory is far more logical than "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" and behold there was light.

Just because you can't be bothered to learn enough about human history (or rather archeology) to know that settlements before Sumer existed doesn't mean that there weren't any cities or that ancient peoples were all savages (or, for that matter, that not having a civilization makes one a savage in the first place).

edit to add: I mean, ffs, the Jericho has been settled for 11,000 years.
Last edited by Dakini on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Braecland
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Postby Braecland » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:34 am

The sad thing is, you have just as much empirical evidence of the existence of your spaceman gods as any Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew has for theirs.

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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:36 am

Dakini wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:
You say that, but I disagree with you here. How much of our history do we know? We know about 4000 years of "modern" history. Everything before the Sumerians' appearance is unknown. At that point we were nothing more than savages, but somehow, suddenly we live in cities and have great knowledge of engineering, metallurgy, and astronomy, to name a few? There is so much we don't know, and honestly, I find that the "helping hand" theory is far more logical than "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" and behold there was light.

Just because you can't be bothered to learn enough about human history (or rather archeology) to know that settlements before Sumer existed doesn't mean that there weren't any cities or that ancient peoples were all savages (or, for that matter, that not having a civilization makes one a savage in the first place).


He's not even confining his rubbish to ancient civilizations. He thinks the Aztecs were building airfields for aliens. The Aztecs had cities larger and greater than those in Spain when the Spanish arrived and I suspect he doesn't realize this.

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:38 am

Khadgar wrote:
Dakini wrote:Just because you can't be bothered to learn enough about human history (or rather archeology) to know that settlements before Sumer existed doesn't mean that there weren't any cities or that ancient peoples were all savages (or, for that matter, that not having a civilization makes one a savage in the first place).


He's not even confining his rubbish to ancient civilizations. He thinks the Aztecs were building airfields for aliens. The Aztecs had cities larger and greater than those in Spain when the Spanish arrived and I suspect he doesn't realize this.

Yeah because obviously, if you see a spacecraft take off and land without a landing strip, you're going to build a landing strip for it. Especially if you're totally unfamiliar with airplanes.

I mean, if they were building large square landing pads, that would be one thing...

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Threlizdun
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Postby Threlizdun » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:46 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:You seriously underestimate humans, confirmation bias aside.


So in the case of Easter Island, the natives just LIKED to make it difficult for themselves, more difficult than it needed to be?

It was not as difficult as it seems. We've replicated the techniques of transportation before, which is largely believed to have involved using ropes to "walk" them to their positions.
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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:53 am

Threlizdun wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:
So in the case of Easter Island, the natives just LIKED to make it difficult for themselves, more difficult than it needed to be?

It was not as difficult as it seems. We've replicated the techniques of transportation before, which is largely believed to have involved using ropes to "walk" them to their positions.


There was quite a good documentary on Netflix that showed the process. It's quite clever.

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:57 am

Stormopolis wrote:Then explain to me how someone like Jonathan Swift knew that Phobos and Deimos exist, naming their locations precisely, predicting one is artificial (as in not a native moon but pieces of Jupiter that crashed into Mars, if I recall correctly) and thus hollow,

lol, whut.

Neither moon of Mars is thought to be hollow, artificial or made of "pieces of Jupiter that crashed into Mars". That last statement doesn't even make any fucking sense. You know that Jupiter is a gas planet and is really massive, right?

I stand by it. All of this makes more sense than god flicking a switch.

No. It's just as stupid as that idea.

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Stormopolis
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Postby Stormopolis » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:57 am

Khadgar wrote:
Dakini wrote:Just because you can't be bothered to learn enough about human history (or rather archeology) to know that settlements before Sumer existed doesn't mean that there weren't any cities or that ancient peoples were all savages (or, for that matter, that not having a civilization makes one a savage in the first place).


He's not even confining his rubbish to ancient civilizations. He thinks the Aztecs were building airfields for aliens. The Aztecs had cities larger and greater than those in Spain when the Spanish arrived and I suspect he doesn't realize this.


Who are you to decide what I do and do not know? I am perfectly aware of this. What's the point of this? To show that you think I'm ignorant and just invalidate something I think is more logical than GOD ERMAGERD by proposing I am ignorant about the buildings the Aztecs built? And that have enough mathematical oddities in themselves to fill another book with?
How do you know somebody is trans or vegan?
Don't worry. They'll tell you at the slightest provocation.

Check my privilege? I won't. Even if I knew how.

Of late there has been a 312% increase of people putting their words and thus their fingers in my mouth. Please refrain from doing so.

WORKING ON MY FACTBOOK OF AWESOME FACTS!

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Stormopolis
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Postby Stormopolis » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:58 am

Dakini wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:Then explain to me how someone like Jonathan Swift knew that Phobos and Deimos exist, naming their locations precisely, predicting one is artificial (as in not a native moon but pieces of Jupiter that crashed into Mars, if I recall correctly) and thus hollow,

lol, whut.

Neither moon of Mars is thought to be hollow, artificial or made of "pieces of Jupiter that crashed into Mars". That last statement doesn't even make any fucking sense. You know that Jupiter is a gas planet and is really massive, right?

I stand by it. All of this makes more sense than god flicking a switch.

No. It's just as stupid as that idea.


Didn't you see I changed it? Obviously not.
How do you know somebody is trans or vegan?
Don't worry. They'll tell you at the slightest provocation.

Check my privilege? I won't. Even if I knew how.

Of late there has been a 312% increase of people putting their words and thus their fingers in my mouth. Please refrain from doing so.

WORKING ON MY FACTBOOK OF AWESOME FACTS!

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Zoice
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Postby Zoice » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:59 am

Stormopolis wrote:I'm serious. All will (and have) been reported. As for saying I'm nuts, why is this more nuts than believing in any religion that says something was made by an almighty deity who apparently is as bipolar as some users here seem to be.

It isn't any more nuts than any of the more popular theistic beliefs. It's just more obviously wrong because most people can look at it relatively objectively when they weren't indoctrinated into the belief from early childhoold, as they are with most popular religions.
Last edited by Zoice on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:01 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Dakini wrote:lol, whut.

Neither moon of Mars is thought to be hollow, artificial or made of "pieces of Jupiter that crashed into Mars". That last statement doesn't even make any fucking sense. You know that Jupiter is a gas planet and is really massive, right?


No. It's just as stupid as that idea.


Didn't you see I changed it? Obviously not.

You conceded the claim that Swift was informed by aliens.

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Stormopolis
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Postby Stormopolis » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:02 am

Dakini wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:
Didn't you see I changed it? Obviously not.

You conceded the claim that Swift was informed by aliens.


That's what you make of it. I just added that he knew pretty much the exact dimensions. Von Däniken himself added "We do not know where Swift got his data from."
How do you know somebody is trans or vegan?
Don't worry. They'll tell you at the slightest provocation.

Check my privilege? I won't. Even if I knew how.

Of late there has been a 312% increase of people putting their words and thus their fingers in my mouth. Please refrain from doing so.

WORKING ON MY FACTBOOK OF AWESOME FACTS!

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:02 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
He's not even confining his rubbish to ancient civilizations. He thinks the Aztecs were building airfields for aliens. The Aztecs had cities larger and greater than those in Spain when the Spanish arrived and I suspect he doesn't realize this.


Who are you to decide what I do and do not know? I am perfectly aware of this. What's the point of this? To show that you think I'm ignorant and just invalidate something I think is more logical than GOD ERMAGERD by proposing I am ignorant about the buildings the Aztecs built? And that have enough mathematical oddities in themselves to fill another book with?

I don't think that anyone has claimed that your ideas are more logical than religious ones.

In fact, I think they are equally illogical.

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:03 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Dakini wrote:You conceded the claim that Swift was informed by aliens.


That's what you make of it. I just added that he knew pretty much the exact dimensions. Von Däniken himself added "We do not know where Swift got his data from."

Except that we do know where Swift got his educated and lucky guesses from.

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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:03 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
He's not even confining his rubbish to ancient civilizations. He thinks the Aztecs were building airfields for aliens. The Aztecs had cities larger and greater than those in Spain when the Spanish arrived and I suspect he doesn't realize this.


Who are you to decide what I do and do not know? I am perfectly aware of this. What's the point of this? To show that you think I'm ignorant and just invalidate something I think is more logical than GOD ERMAGERD by proposing I am ignorant about the buildings the Aztecs built? And that have enough mathematical oddities in themselves to fill another book with?



If you know what you claim to know then why are you making such absurd claims?

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Stormopolis
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Postby Stormopolis » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:03 am

Dakini wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:
Who are you to decide what I do and do not know? I am perfectly aware of this. What's the point of this? To show that you think I'm ignorant and just invalidate something I think is more logical than GOD ERMAGERD by proposing I am ignorant about the buildings the Aztecs built? And that have enough mathematical oddities in themselves to fill another book with?

I don't think that anyone has claimed that your ideas are more logical than religious ones.

In fact, I think they are equally illogical.


They are more logical and plausible than religion, in my eyes.
How do you know somebody is trans or vegan?
Don't worry. They'll tell you at the slightest provocation.

Check my privilege? I won't. Even if I knew how.

Of late there has been a 312% increase of people putting their words and thus their fingers in my mouth. Please refrain from doing so.

WORKING ON MY FACTBOOK OF AWESOME FACTS!

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:04 am

Stormopolis wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
He's not even confining his rubbish to ancient civilizations. He thinks the Aztecs were building airfields for aliens. The Aztecs had cities larger and greater than those in Spain when the Spanish arrived and I suspect he doesn't realize this.


Who are you to decide what I do and do not know? I am perfectly aware of this. What's the point of this? To show that you think I'm ignorant and just invalidate something I think is more logical than GOD ERMAGERD by proposing I am ignorant about the buildings the Aztecs built? And that have enough mathematical oddities in themselves to fill another book with?

"Ancient Aliens" as an explanation for anything is standing at the Literally Zero Logic starting line along with "Fairies" and "A wizard". Calling it more logical than any other explanation is basically meaningless. And bonus points for trying to tell a bunch of atheists that your idea is better than "GOD ERMAGERD".
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

Saoirse don Phalaistín

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Stormopolis
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Founded: Oct 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Stormopolis » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
Stormopolis wrote:
Who are you to decide what I do and do not know? I am perfectly aware of this. What's the point of this? To show that you think I'm ignorant and just invalidate something I think is more logical than GOD ERMAGERD by proposing I am ignorant about the buildings the Aztecs built? And that have enough mathematical oddities in themselves to fill another book with?

"Ancient Aliens" as an explanation for anything is standing at the Literally Zero Logic starting line along with "Fairies" and "A wizard". Calling it more logical than any other explanation is basically meaningless. And bonus points for trying to tell a bunch of atheists that your idea is better than "GOD ERMAGERD".


That's what YOU make of it. Stop putting words in my mouth, I don't know where you've been.
How do you know somebody is trans or vegan?
Don't worry. They'll tell you at the slightest provocation.

Check my privilege? I won't. Even if I knew how.

Of late there has been a 312% increase of people putting their words and thus their fingers in my mouth. Please refrain from doing so.

WORKING ON MY FACTBOOK OF AWESOME FACTS!

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