Should Native American Land Be Given Back?

[Godular]

I find myself amused how you drew that interpretation from my comment. Any more words you want to put in my mouth before I spit them back into your face?

Calm down I was being funny.

Mayhap, I did chuckle at the first bit, but the follow-up had connotations that I took issue with.

My initial question was quite serious. A goodly amount of national parkland comes from lands frequented by Native Americans before they essentially got booted. Though they had little concept of personal ownership, it strikes me as a just notion to allow them residential access to national parks that they might have originally lived on. Combine that with park service jobs in which they assist in maintenance and upkeep for the park and I'd think things would work quite nicely.

I wonder how such is considered insane or treating the Native Americans like animals.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Are you seriously saying that natives IN THE MODERN DAY scalp people?

Get a grip nobody is saying that.

Actually, on a rather serious note, would it be overly infeasible to allow Native Americans to live on national parks and wildlife preserves and maybe give 'em park service jobs?

I think getting scalped might ruin family camping trips if we just let tribes roam free in the woods.

[Yorkers]

Get a grip nobody is saying that.

I think getting scalped might ruin family camping trips if we just let tribes roam free in the woods.

Christ nobody here has a sense of humor.

[Costa Fierro]

That's a thought. I just wondered about this because it was a point brought up in an article referencing the Bundinista Occupation in Oregon. There's a tribe that lives nearby that wants their old tribal lands back, and they were kinda PO'd that some clump of goobers thought they had more right to it than them.

It's the levels of irony those morons exhibited about taking the land and giving it to its "rightful owners" what amused me the most.

One would think that both might be feasible - the federal government could work as a mediator with local landowners to establish joint use agreements for the individual groups involved, if not necessarily things like resource use.

It'd be costly and complicated. The reason the tribunal only stuck to Crown land was because of historical grievances with the Crown itself and because it would be far too complicated legally to resolve issues with private landowners, especially if they're not willing to work with the tribe.

The unfortunate thing about limiting the land returns to federally held land is that some tribes get more out of it than others, depending on the amount of federal land held in any given state.

And what many people don't get is generally indians don't want to lord over a bunch of non-indians, it'd be a pain in the ass. Trying to get them out is also a pain in the ass so when it comes to heavily populated areas there'd be some negotations on the land.

I don't think what would eventuate would be giving Native Americans control over all land back, because that simply isn't feasible.

[Gun Manufacturers]

The over 310 million which I speak of, are the non-native American component of the US population. I.e. Europeans and other ancestral groups not indigenous to north America.

My idea is that the people stay, just that the gov is under Native American control and borders redrawn. A good compromise right?

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

My idea is that the people stay, just that the gov is under Native American control and borders redrawn. A good compromise right?[/quote

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Why not?

[Mushet]

That's a thought. I just wondered about this because it was a point brought up in an article referencing the Bundinista Occupation in Oregon. There's a tribe that lives nearby that wants their old tribal lands back, and they were kinda PO'd that some clump of goobers thought they had more right to it than them.

It's the levels of irony those morons exhibited about taking the land and giving it to its "rightful owners" what amused me the most.

One would think that both might be feasible - the federal government could work as a mediator with local landowners to establish joint use agreements for the individual groups involved, if not necessarily things like resource use.

It'd be costly and complicated. The reason the tribunal only stuck to Crown land was because of historical grievances with the Crown itself and because it would be far too complicated legally to resolve issues with private landowners, especially if they're not willing to work with the tribe.

The unfortunate thing about limiting the land returns to federally held land is that some tribes get more out of it than others, depending on the amount of federal land held in any given state.

And what many people don't get is generally indians don't want to lord over a bunch of non-indians, it'd be a pain in the ass. Trying to get them out is also a pain in the ass so when it comes to heavily populated areas there'd be some negotations on the land.

I don't think what would eventuate would be giving Native Americans control over all land back, because that simply isn't feasible.

Not for the forseeable future definitely not feasible, and not necessarily desirable in the eyes of many tribes.

[Yorkers]

My idea is that the people stay, just that the gov is under Native American control and borders redrawn. A good compromise right?[/quote

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Why not?

Are you really asking why having Indians and solely the Indians run a country of over 300 million people of different backgrounds and ethnicities is a bad idea?

[Crockerland]

Ironically, OP's sig is in favor of "New Afrika", a racist black nationalist movement aimed at taking originally Native American land in the Southern US for an African American nation.

[Imperial Idaho]

My idea is that the people stay, just that the gov is under Native American control and borders redrawn. A good compromise right?[/quote

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Why not?

Nobody would agree, it would take a colossal overhaul of political and administrative resources along with angering millions of people just to be "fair" to a minority,

[Saiwania]

The high school which I went to had a native American mascot and theme to it. It had a "tribal council" of sorts set up to resolve disputes or decide on disciplinary actions like giving out suspensions, expulsions, etc. which was sort of cool. Even though the staff and administrators were White or whichever other race.

Asides from aesthetic changes, it was run like any other K-12 school which covered grades 9-12. Almost no native Americans went to the school though, so I'm unsure how it came to embrace that theme.

[Grand Adruvain]

The over 310 million which I speak of, are the non-native American component of the US population. I.e. Europeans and other ancestral groups not indigenous to north America.

My idea is that the people stay, just that the gov is under Native American control and borders redrawn. A good compromise right?

So divvy up a nation of 310 million people that is Politically, Militarily and Economically important to the modern world, for 3-5 million people in separate nation states just because they had dibs on this land 300 years ago...



That is highly unlikely and not a smart idea...

[Yorkers]

The high school which I went to had a native American mascot and theme to it. It had a "tribal council" of sorts set up to resolve disputes or decide on disciplinary actions like giving out suspensions, expulsions, etc. which was sort of cool. Even though the staff and administrators were White or whichever other race.

Asides from aesthetic changes, it was run like any other K-12 school which covered grades 9-12. Almost no native Americans went to the school though, so I'm unsure how it came to embrace that theme.

Probably because most people found the Indian aesthetic to be cool, which it is.

[Maichuko]

When you say given back do you mean land that still isn't settled or land with people living on it?

[Eclius]

What??!! Give it back means everyone in North America would all have to move back to their country of origin

[Mushet]

The high school which I went to had a native American mascot and theme to it. It had a "tribal council" of sorts set up to resolve disputes or decide on disciplinary actions like giving out suspensions, expulsions, etc. which was sort of cool. Even though the staff and administrators were White or whichever other race.

Asides from aesthetic changes, it was run like any other K-12 school which covered grades 9-12. Almost no native Americans went to the school though, so I'm unsure how it came to embrace that theme.

I'm sure if there was more they'd be likely to get pretty annoyed.

[Eclius]

The high school which I went to had a native American mascot and theme to it. It had a "tribal council" of sorts set up to resolve disputes or decide on disciplinary actions like giving out suspensions, expulsions, etc. which was sort of cool. Even though the staff and administrators were White or whichever other race.

Asides from aesthetic changes, it was run like any other K-12 school which covered grades 9-12. Almost no native Americans went to the school though, so I'm unsure how it came to embrace that theme.

really? Why?

[Engleberg]

It's been like a hundred fucking years, stop being sore losers.

More like a few centuries
And I do agree, get over it, imagine we give the land back, who would get it?
There is no "Native American" confederation to bounce in and take all this civilized land back.
And if there was, the land wouldn't be "Native American". It would be Western, American.
There is nothing to give back after a few hundred years, it's all changed like no one can imagine.

Ok, let's give back Chile's coast to Bolivia, that's more reasonable.
Give Canada to the UK
Give Texas to Mexico
Give the Yucatan peninsula to the Mayans
Give the African countries back to the European powers

Give Konigsberg and Alsace-Lorraine back to Germany....

[Eclius]

It's been like a hundred fucking years, stop being sore losers.

More like a few centuries
And I do agree, get over it, imagine we give the land back, who would get it?
There is no "Native American" confederation to bounce in and take all this civilized land back.
And if there was, the land wouldn't be "Native American". It would be Western, American.
There is nothing to give back after a few hundred years, it's all changed like no one can imagine.

Ok, let's give back Chile's coast to Bolivia, that's more reasonable.
Give Canada to the UK
Give Texas to Mexico
Give the Yucatan peninsula to the Mayans
Give the African countries back to the European powers

What? Mayans are long dead, that civilization doesn't even exist anymore

[Mushet]

More like a few centuries
And I do agree, get over it, imagine we give the land back, who would get it?
There is no "Native American" confederation to bounce in and take all this civilized land back.
And if there was, the land wouldn't be "Native American". It would be Western, American.
There is nothing to give back after a few hundred years, it's all changed like no one can imagine.

Ok, let's give back Chile's coast to Bolivia, that's more reasonable.
Give Canada to the UK
Give Texas to Mexico
Give the Yucatan peninsula to the Mayans
Give the African countries back to the European powers

What? Mayans are long dead, that civilization doesn't even exist anymore

There are millions of Mayans living today

[Eclius]

What? Mayans are long dead, that civilization doesn't even exist anymore

There are millions of Mayans living today

Well, hardly do I recognize them as Mayans, some of the cultural practices of the Mayans are long gone, it's literally like Italians claiming themselves to be Romans...

[Freefall11111]

The over 310 million which I speak of, are the non-native American component of the US population. I.e. Europeans and other ancestral groups not indigenous to north America.

My idea is that the people stay, just that the gov is under Native American control and borders redrawn. A good compromise right?

So you're a racist and you support apartheid.

[Great Nilfgaard]

This thread is about what happened during the outright theft of American land by European (British, French, Spanish, etc.) invaders and if their land should be given back. Personally, I'm not 100% on the side of giving it back, but I lean to it. What are your thoughts? Participate in the poll too. Thanks to those who participate

Almost every human lives on land that was conquered from someone else. It is the way of the world.
Anyone who says the West has a unique need to apologize is either ignorant or a willful hypocrite.

[Kar-Esseria]

No.

The past needs to stay in the past, and I will neither be punished nor take responsibility something that not only did I not partake in, but that even my ancestors didn't partake in because they weren't even fucking here yet. I was born here, they were born here, ancestry is irrelevant. This country belongs to all of us, and there is no point sticking our heads in history books and trying to get 'justice' against people who had not to do with events that happened centuries ago. There is not a soul alive that partook in the theft of Native American lands. Many of us don't even have any ancestors that were involved with it.

The very idea is racist.

[Noraika]

Well...what constitutes a Native American anyway today?
Is it solely those who were present before the European colonization? Why? They are colonists themselves, so is it based on the extent of time that a people has lived in a place? Overall, to be honest, as has happened numerous times throughout history, in just about every nation, the new people are the new natives of the land, by which they were born, raised, and have lived in their entire lives, and there is little that legitimately qualifies this land to be taken from the ownership of the Native Americans (new) to be given to the Native Americans (old), as the time of the generations which originally had those lands in their possession is long since past, and there is little that ties time to it anymore.

The actions of the past are rarely justifiable as 'good', but we cannot expect offers of retribution from a population which largely no longer has any connection to the people of the past, and most certainly not their actions.