The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Alvecia]

Love the quote from the spokesperson

The graphic is basically that from any multiple choice exam from GCSE-level and A-level.

Do I get to have my exam grades retroactively increased on the basis I can now cite this as "reasonable influence" for me to mark the wrong answer?

Now you've said it, someone is going to seriously ask....

[Koninkrijk Zeeland]

Nothing will change if they leave they don´t have the euro. London would still be so expensive.

[Freefall11111]

Nothing will change if they leave they don´t have the euro. London would still be so expensive.

The Euro isn't the EU.

[Frank Zipper]

Nothing will change if they leave they don´t have the euro. London would still be so expensive.

The Euro isn't the EU.

And we don't use the Euro in the UK.

[Vassenor]

So I got a pamphlet about the reasons to vote Leave today.

It basically boils down to "Everything you've been told was lies, but we're not going to tell you what the truth is, so vote Leave to TAKE BACK CONTROL(tm)".

tl;dr: Meh.

[Ifreann]

It's a majestic tantrum being thrown, yes.

Love the quote from the spokesperson

"The placement of the pen graphic was entirely incidental and we do not believe that anybody could reasonably be influenced by such a graphic.

"However, given current sensitivities, for all future postal vote dispatches the form and graphic will be amended."

Giving in to a tantrum will only teach UKIP to keep throwing them to get what they want.

[Alvecia]

Love the quote from the spokesperson

Giving in to a tantrum will only teach UKIP to keep throwing them to get what they want.

True. But it's easy to tell they're not happy about it.

[Wolfmanne2]

lol
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36411509

Spin: Leave supporters so stupid they risk voting Remain.

[-Mr Money-]

I think we should leave.

There's two paths the UK can take. Either we're out and we provide the incentive for the other EU nations to unwind the project.
Or we are there when the whole thing implodes under it's own weight and we end up in a right royal mess economically.

[Imperializt Russia]

I think we should leave.

There's two paths the UK can take. Either we're out and we provide the incentive for the other EU nations to unwind the project.
Or we are there when the whole thing implodes under it's own weight and we end up in a right royal mess economically.

Yes, because the recipient of like three quarters of our trade imploding while we're not a part of the organisation is that much better.

[United Kingdom of Kent]

So I got a pamphlet about the reasons to vote Leave today.

It basically boils down to "Everything you've been told was lies, but we're not going to tell you what the truth is, so vote Leave to TAKE BACK CONTROL(tm)".

tl;dr: Meh.

I got one from the In campaign and it was more or less exactly the same. I think both sides are as much to blame for this as both have sources to back up their claims. However it must fall to the individual to decide which source he trusts more.

[Neu Leonstein]

I got one from the In campaign and it was more or less exactly the same. I think both sides are as much to blame for this as both have sources to back up their claims. However it must fall to the individual to decide which source he trusts more.

But they're not the same though. It's false equivocation.

Look, you know exactly what you get by remaining. The UK stays in the EU, which means no significant change to the economic or political setup. The UK remains outside of the euro and is explicitly not part of any future grand plans the EU may have to turn itself into a federalist state. EU rules regarding the free movement of people, goods, services and capital will remain in place, as before limited by UK policy at home and as part of EU rule-setting procedures.

And when you leave, you get a bunch of risks. There's a risk, however small you think it is, that the impact on trade and growth will be as bad as most economists, the Bank of England, the OECD and the UK government think it is. There is a risk that there will be delays in negotiating free trade agreements, both with the EU and with all the third party countries that the UK has agreements with currently via EU deals. There is a risk that significant parts of London's financial activities will have to be transferred if there are delays in getting certain arcane rules negotiated the right way between the EU and UK. And so on. And even in the best case scenario, in which the UK joins the EEA like Norway, for example, it would still pay into the EU pot and have to commit to the EU's freedoms because that's part of the EEA deal.

I know that the Leave campaign has been talking about all these risks as scare mongering. But that's not really the point. Maybe the probabilities that the Remain campaign has in mind are way too high. Maybe the damage would be less than the Remain campaign thinks. But none of that is relevant unless you think either the probability or the damages are actually equal to zero. The issues themselves are not invented.

The real question is what else you get by leaving, aside from these risks. The Leave camp has focused entirely on a negative campaign. It has warned of how terrible the EU is, and it has painted the Remain camp as scaremongerers. Fine. But unless you really do think there are no risks involved in leaving, the question you have to ask yourself is what is the positive that would come out of leaving? No one seems to be talking about that, which is just insane. This is not a referendum about joining a federal European superstate. It is a referendum about terminating the current arrangement the UK has with its European neighbours, instead of maintaining the status quo. The status quo, despite everything you may have heard, is not actually a disaster. You have to make a serious attempt to justify to yourself why taking the risks of leaving is actually worth it.

And so far, everyone I have asked in this thread has not made any such attempt. Which is a bit scary, because to me that seems like the screamingly obvious thing to do if I was asked a question like this.

[Koninkrijk Zeeland]

Nothing will change if they leave they don´t have the euro. London would still be so expensive.

The Euro isn't the EU.

How stupid are you i meant the currency moron!

[Hydesland]

Oh fuck...

[Valaran]

Oh fuck...

Yeah that one sucks :/

The FT's poll of polls still has In at 46% to Out's 42%, though there's naturally no room for comfort.

[Ostroeuropa]

This is a natural consequence of endless bullshit from both sides leaders. It's obviously going to cause drift toward 50/50, similar to the Scottish independence referendum.
But at the last minute, undecideds will rush toward the status quo.

[The Nihilistic view]

I think we should leave.

There's two paths the UK can take. Either we're out and we provide the incentive for the other EU nations to unwind the project.
Or we are there when the whole thing implodes under it's own weight and we end up in a right royal mess economically.

Yes, because the recipient of like three quarters of our trade imploding while we're not a part of the organisation is that much better.

lol

Pissed at leave campaign for making things up


Makes things up

[Greed and Death]

Yes, because the recipient of like three quarters of our trade imploding while we're not a part of the organisation is that much better.

lol

Pissed at leave campaign for making things up


Makes things up

When in doubt make something up see American politics.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yes, because the recipient of like three quarters of our trade imploding while we're not a part of the organisation is that much better.

lol

Pissed at leave campaign for making things up


Makes things up

Is it not a majority of our trade goes to EU states?

[Greed and Death]

Oh fuck...

Don't worry chancellor Merkel has announced no country will be allowed to leave the EU.

[The BlAAtschApen]

https://twitter.com/FelicityMorse/statu ... 45/photo/1

Tihi

[The Nihilistic view]

https://twitter.com/FelicityMorse/status/737671953637638145/photo/1

Tihi

Who doesn't pour petrol over things when burning them?

[Ifreann]

https://twitter.com/FelicityMorse/status/737671953637638145/photo/1

Tihi

EU 1 - 0 IRA

[Souseiseki]

https://twitter.com/FelicityMorse/status/737671953637638145/photo/1

Tihi

truly the highlight of the referndum

[The Nihilistic view]

lol

Pissed at leave campaign for making things up


Makes things up

Is it not a majority of our trade goes to EU states?

No it is like 45% not 75%.