Indonesia Approves Castrating Child Rapist

[Ganonsyoni]

I don't understand this fascination with statist monitoring of the "bad people (tm)" or inhumane punishment of them. No, castration is a violation of bodily sovereignty. Monitoring and registration on some sex-offenders list is a violation of privacy and makes it incredibly hard to re-integrate back into society.

I mean, what is so fucking hard about not being a statist authoritarian, using prison as a mean or rehabilitation and isolation, and smoothly integrate people back into society? Is it this fictional notion that "Only bad people do bad things and that I'm not a bad person" that people lap up like gospel?

Well, I'm personally against sexual assault, especially against children. Obviously there are differences in opinion on this topic, but that is how I rationalise the monitoring and curing of such criminals; in order to prevent further attacks the attackers must be neutralised and people must be aware of them so they can guard themselves and their children.

So make it incredibly hard for them to reintegrate back into society by feeding into people's fears of bad people always being bad regardless of time served or whatever they received in prison during their term. Because that's what happens when you label someone as a child-rapist for life and make it public information. People don't wanna associate with said person, including businesses that'll hire them.

If anything, we should create a system that rehabilitates prisoners while they serve their term and have their release from prison be a private affair and all information of their crimes wiped so that public can't know what they did in the past.

Also, if your solution to a problem includes massive breaches in human rights, then maybe you should re-evaluate your solution.

[Aclion]

I hate child rapists as much as the next guy but I think that tracking bracelets might be a bad precedent to start....

Do you guys want to tell him or should I?

[Ganos Lao]

If anything, we should create a system that rehabilitates prisoners while they serve their term and have their release from prison be a private affair and all information of their crimes wiped so that public can't know what they did in the past.

[Ardoki]

Well, I'm personally against sexual assault, especially against children. Obviously there are differences in opinion on this topic, but that is how I rationalise the monitoring and curing of such criminals; in order to prevent further attacks the attackers must be neutralised and people must be aware of them so they can guard themselves and their children.

So make it incredibly hard for them to reintegrate back into society by feeding into people's fears of bad people always being bad regardless of time served or whatever they received in prison during their term. Because that's what happens when you label someone as a child-rapist for life and make it public information. People don't wanna associate with said person, including businesses that'll hire them.

If anything, we should create a system that rehabilitates prisoners while they serve their term and have their release from prison be a private affair and all information of their crimes wiped so that public can't know what they did in the past.

Also, if your solution to a problem includes massive breaches in human rights, then maybe you should re-evaluate your solution.

If someone has raped children; I don't think worrying about their feelings is a priority. Parents and others deserve to know if a paedophile is living in their neighbourhood; if they've acted on their urges once it is likely they'll do it again.

Anyway, we are you so adamant in your defence of paedophiles? Why do you want them to just walk out of jail like nothing happened?

[Liriena]

Raping a child is one of the most despicable acts a human could commit... but I still don't support the death penalty, even for that. And as for castration... maybe. Just maybe. If we're talking about someone who will definitely continue to be a danger to children, and will most likely never seek to have healthy, consensual relations with adults, castration might not be completely reprehensible.

[Liriena]

If anything, we should create a system that rehabilitates prisoners while they serve their term and have their release from prison be a private affair and all information of their crimes wiped so that public can't know what they did in the past.

To be fair, her heart is in the right place.

Again, I'm pretty sure nobody here thinks the rape of children is tolerable, let alone acceptable, but the criminal justice system probably should still bet on rehabilitation, even in the worst cases.

[The balkens]

pity only the child and no one else.

[Ganos Lao]

(Image)

To be fair, her heart is in the right place.

Again, I'm pretty sure nobody here thinks the rape of children is tolerable, let alone acceptable, but the criminal justice system probably should still bet on rehabilitation, even in the worst cases.

I get what they're saying, nor am I thinking they think something like that's tolerable or acceptable. I just don't think such a system works; that is to say, that while rehabilitation is fine and dandy, wiping all information isn't really a good idea. It just rubs me the wrong way, especially when proposed in a thread about criminals who prey on children.

[Rhyfelnydd]

So make it incredibly hard for them to reintegrate back into society by feeding into people's fears of bad people always being bad regardless of time served or whatever they received in prison during their term. Because that's what happens when you label someone as a child-rapist for life and make it public information. People don't wanna associate with said person, including businesses that'll hire them.

If anything, we should create a system that rehabilitates prisoners while they serve their term and have their release from prison be a private affair and all information of their crimes wiped so that public can't know what they did in the past.

Also, if your solution to a problem includes massive breaches in human rights, then maybe you should re-evaluate your solution.

if they've acted on their urges once it is likely they'll do it again.

Exactly why rehabilitation should be the focus of the penal system, not retribution and torture.

[Trodarian Benxboro Republic]

...Has any other jurisdiction done this before?
What's happened to the reporting rate of rapes afterward, if anyone knows?

[Des-Bal]

There was a murder involved, death penalty is fine.
Castration? Hard to say, it's hard to imagine a scenario where that's necessary but it's still justifiable to allow him on the streets.

[Crimoria]

Bali 9 anyone.

[Ardoki]

if they've acted on their urges once it is likely they'll do it again.

Exactly why rehabilitation should be the focus of the penal system, not retribution and torture.

You can't 'rehabilitate' paedophiles; just like you can't 'convert' homosexuals.

[Liriena]

What's happened to the reporting rate of rapes afterward, if anyone knows?

That's one thing that concerns me. "Tough on crime" laws and the like have a tendency to come with some problematic side effects.

[Des-Bal]

You can't 'rehabilitate' paedophiles; just like you can't 'convert' homosexuals.

Why do you think that's the case?

[Rhyfelnydd]

Exactly why rehabilitation should be the focus of the penal system, not retribution and torture.

You can't 'rehabilitate' paedophiles; just like you can't 'convert' homosexuals.

You can actually. It is true that you can not "cure" the phillia, but it is certainly possible to rehabilitate in the sense not to act on their desires. There is also currently more research going on in the matter, last I heard.

[Souseiseki]

So make it incredibly hard for them to reintegrate back into society by feeding into people's fears of bad people always being bad regardless of time served or whatever they received in prison during their term. Because that's what happens when you label someone as a child-rapist for life and make it public information. People don't wanna associate with said person, including businesses that'll hire them.

If anything, we should create a system that rehabilitates prisoners while they serve their term and have their release from prison be a private affair and all information of their crimes wiped so that public can't know what they did in the past.

Also, if your solution to a problem includes massive breaches in human rights, then maybe you should re-evaluate your solution.

If someone has raped children; I don't think worrying about their feelings is a priority. Parents and others deserve to know if a paedophile is living in their neighbourhood; if they've acted on their urges once it is likely they'll do it again.

Anyway, we are you so adamant in your defence of paedophiles? Why do you want them to just walk out of jail like nothing happened?

do they deserve to know if there's a murderer in their neighbourhood? a drug dealer? a thief?

[Benxboro]

What's happened to the reporting rate of rapes afterward, if anyone knows?

That's one thing that concerns me. "Tough on crime" laws and the like have a tendency to come with some problematic side effects.

The idea with those is likely to make the cost of crime very high.
Problem is, the state is not omniscient and it has to know a crime has occurred, just as one has to see or hear or feel a bear shitting in the woods on your feet to know that such has happened. It raises the costs of letting the crime be reported to the criminals instead. The cost comes with people surviving to tell the police. Therefore, if only the perpetrator survives, the number of potential leakers and quite possibly real leakers drops. Make all victimizing crimes punishable by death, and you have idiots getting massacred for letting it happen and more idiots getting slaughtered because they were unlucky enough to get attacked.

If someone has raped children; I don't think worrying about their feelings is a priority. Parents and others deserve to know if a paedophile is living in their neighbourhood; if they've acted on their urges once it is likely they'll do it again.

Anyway, we are you so adamant in your defence of paedophiles? Why do you want them to just walk out of jail like nothing happened?

do they deserve to know if there's a murderer in their neighbourhood? a drug dealer? a thief?

Only if there were a sufficiently high (what is sufficient idk) rate of repeat offense for those charged with such crimes would the citizenry's knowledge even come remotely in handy.

[Quokkastan]

If you're going to kill them just get on with it. This showboating is extremely distasteful.

EDIT: in reference to the poll.

[Yuzhou]

I get what they're saying, nor am I thinking they think something like that's tolerable or acceptable. I just don't think such a system works. Rehabilitation is fine and dandy, but wiping all information rubs me the wrong way, especially when proposed as a good idea in a thread about criminals who prey on children.

Yeah...
Focus of justice system should be rehabilitation if possible, but that black mark on their sheet is extremely important in my opinion. It acts as a more permanent form of punishment for crimes of this nature. Which I think is warranted, especially since the US can be a bit too lenient on sentencing for prison time.

The risk is that someone may get falsely convicted and then have that mark. The solution would be to be more thorough on needed evidence and also to have an easy way for people later proven innocent to clear such a mark.

As for the overall theme of the thread. I can see why it's REALLY hard to not approve of this. Really hard. But I agree with the opinion that it sets a bad precedent. For now it's sex offenders, but later a totalitarian government can use justification for it on political dissidents for example. If you take the rights of one person, then others may see it as justifiable to take the rights of others that are not deserving of those rights removed.
Doing only to people who would pose later threat is even more justifiable, but still suffers from this.

Of course, there are many that would argue that punishments like this are immoral regardless of crime. I can't say I agree, especially as one who knows two people who went through something like this. But I can see the argument.

I think we need to look into further study of what makes these people tick. From what we understand (correct me if I am wrong), we know that many sexual crimes, especially rape are often not linked to sexual desire as much as they are to other psychological factors. And while pedophilia may be an exception, we generally classify it as a mental disease. Thus, I think we should delve further into what makes a "bad person" different from a good one mentally and see what we can do towards preventing this in the first place.
If such a study is possible. Sometimes it's simply normal people thrown into abnormal situations.

[Ganos Lao]

-snip-

If you do such a heinous crime like raping a child, I dare to reckon that black mark is all the more important. People really should know what you did, in that particular scenario. That's the whole point of things like sex offender registries and the like. The issue is moreso that people are being put on 'em for rather silly reasons.

And even if we were to implement the "now no one will know what you did" system, people would still know. It gets around, you know? The fact you were rehabilitated doesn't change the news coverage, etc that came about prior to said rehabilitation. And some people just wouldn't give one damn about rehabilitation anyway, if you know what I mean.

[Free Missouri]

Personally I would prefer forcing murders and child rapists to donate their donatable organs to people that need them and then once everything's been used just give them painkillers and cut off the life support.

[Novorobo]

Raping a child is one of the most despicable acts a human could commit... but I still don't support the death penalty, even for that. And as for castration... maybe. Just maybe. If we're talking about someone who will definitely continue to be a danger to children, and will most likely never seek to have healthy, consensual relations with adults, castration might not be completely reprehensible.

What if castration makes them easier targets for prison rape?

[American Imperial State]

I agree with the legislation and believe it should be expanded to cover other sexual deviants.

[Ararat Mountain]

Raping a child is one of the most despicable acts a human could commit... but I still don't support the death penalty, even for that. And as for castration... maybe. Just maybe. If we're talking about someone who will definitely continue to be a danger to children, and will most likely never seek to have healthy, consensual relations with adults, castration might not be completely reprehensible.

What if castration makes them easier targets for prison rape?

I don't care.