The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Gravlen]

Apparently that constitutes equality.

While I don't agree with the tweet, I do wonder just how many people there are out there who still believe that certain jobs, such as the presidency, are man's work?

If polls are to be believed, it seems like we're down to single digits:


http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

37. Would you vote for a qualified woman for president? Yes 95 %, No 4 %.

5 % Very Uncomfortable with a woman running for president

9 % less likely to support a woman

By the way, if you look more closely at the poll results, you will become sad. Examples:
- Do you think President Obama is a Muslim? 17 % yes.
- 40 % would not vote for an atheist. (in a different poll, 53 % say they're less likely to support an atheist).

[Des-Bal]

The mere idea behind feminist movement didn't have a good start really. Sending death threats to an honored member of your movement just because they created a battered men's shelter after making a battered women's shelter for purposes of equality, and then driving them out of the country was not a good way to start.

The problem with discussing feminism is that people seem to assume the problems feminism has are either new or caused by a vocal minority. Feminism is fucked right down to the roots and anyone who cares about gender equality more than labels or onanistic activism needs to recognize that.

[Fartsniffage]

While I don't agree with the tweet, I do wonder just how many people there are out there who still believe that certain jobs, such as the presidency, are man's work?

If polls are to be believed, it seems like we're down to single digits:


http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

37. Would you vote for a qualified woman for president? Yes 95 %, No 4 %.

5 % Very Uncomfortable with a woman running for president

9 % less likely to support a woman

By the way, if you look more closely at the poll results, you will become sad. Examples:
- Do you think President Obama is a Muslim? 17 % yes.
- 40 % would not vote for an atheist. (in a different poll, 53 % say they're less likely to support an atheist).

So down to about 30 million people in the US. That's not too bad...

[Fartsniffage]

The mere idea behind feminist movement didn't have a good start really. Sending death threats to an honored member of your movement just because they created a battered men's shelter after making a battered women's shelter for purposes of equality, and then driving them out of the country was not a good way to start.

The problem with discussing feminism is that people seem to assume the problems feminism has are either new or caused by a vocal minority. Feminism is fucked right down to the roots and anyone who cares about gender equality more than labels or onanistic activism needs to recognize that.

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel...

[Philjia]

Its a movement that hast to continuously justify its existence. As "combative force" it must keep justifying that there is an enemy for them to combat. These types of movements, once outliving their usefulness, tend to take a turn for the absurd.

The mere idea behind feminist movement didn't have a good start really. Sending death threats to an honored member of your movement just because they created a battered men's shelter after making a battered women's shelter for purposes of equality, and then driving them out of the country was not a good way to start.

And the Suffragettes, who are today revered as great feminist campaigners, were in fact terrorists.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The mere idea behind feminist movement didn't have a good start really. Sending death threats to an honored member of your movement just because they created a battered men's shelter after making a battered women's shelter for purposes of equality, and then driving them out of the country was not a good way to start.

The problem with discussing feminism is that people seem to assume the problems feminism has are either new or caused by a vocal minority. Feminism is fucked right down to the roots and anyone who cares about gender equality more than labels or onanistic activism needs to recognize that.

I do recognize that. Hence why I'm not a feminist.

[Naretion]

The mere idea behind feminist movement didn't have a good start really. Sending death threats to an honored member of your movement just because they created a battered men's shelter after making a battered women's shelter for purposes of equality, and then driving them out of the country was not a good way to start.

The problem with discussing feminism is that people seem to assume the problems feminism has are either new or caused by a vocal minority. Feminism is fucked right down to the roots and anyone who cares about gender equality more than labels or onanistic activism needs to recognize that.

Yeah. You can even tell feminism has nothing to do with equality today even though they still claim it does because whenever I yell at a feminist for some sexist act or statement they tell me things like "Real men don't want equality when it comes to this", like are you serious? I actually just recently commented on a story where a woman who assaulted a man and got off with parole (it was on FB so i don't have the link, sorry). People were saying the man should have gone to jail because he hit her back at one point. I was dumbfounded and said something along the lines of.

"No one should be hitting anyone...but self defense is self defense. Just because she is a girl doesn't make it any different."

My feminist friend appears and says "No man should ever hit a woman because woman are physically inferior to men."

I scratched my head and said, "Are you kidding me? I am 98 pounds and about 5'5. Do you know how many women are physically inferior to me? Not many. Are you saying if I hit a woman back that assaulted me that I should go to jail? We have equality for a reason you know."

Then her feminist friend comes up and says "REAL MEN DON'T WANT EQUALITY WHEN IT COMES TO HITTING WOMEN, ONLY LITTLE BOYS DO. YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE BOY." and i broke down laughing out of disbelief as I watched my friend like her comment and vocally agree with her.

[Des-Bal]

Yeah. You can even tell feminism has nothing to do with equality today even though they still claim it does because whenever I yell at a feminist for some sexist act or statement they tell me things like "Real men don't want equality when it comes to this", like are you serious? I actually just recently commented on a story where a woman who assaulted a man and got off with parole (it was on FB so i don't have the link, sorry). People were saying the man should have gone to jail because he hit her back at one point. I was dumbfounded and said something along the lines of.

"No one should be hitting anyone...but self defense is self defense. Just because she is a girl doesn't make it any different."

My feminist friend appears and says "No man should ever hit a woman because woman are physically inferior to men."

I scratched my head and said, "Are you kidding me? I am 98 pounds and about 5'5. Do you know how many women are physically inferior to me? Not many. Are you saying if I hit a woman back that assaulted me that I should go to jail? We have equality for a reason you know."

Then her feminist friend comes up and says "REAL MEN DON'T WANT EQUALITY WHEN IT COMES TO HITTING WOMEN, ONLY LITTLE BOYS DO. YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE BOY." and i broke down laughing out of disbelief as I watched my friend like her comment and vocally agree with her.

Feminist paternalism can be absolutely shocking. So much of the rhetoric and activism seems to presume that women are somehow deficient and basically draw a line between "women" and "people.

[Vassenor]

The mere idea behind feminist movement didn't have a good start really. Sending death threats to an honored member of your movement just because they created a battered men's shelter after making a battered women's shelter for purposes of equality, and then driving them out of the country was not a good way to start.

And the Suffragettes, who are today revered as great feminist campaigners, were in fact terrorists.

That's a bit of a loaded statement. Got any examples to back it up?

[Alvecia]

And the Suffragettes, who are today revered as great feminist campaigners, were in fact terrorists.

That's a bit of a loaded statement. Got any examples to back it up?

Well there was that one time someone killed themselves for the cause.
Amittedly she didn't mean to get trampled by the horse, and she didn't cause the deaths of anyone else, but....

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Yeah. You can even tell feminism has nothing to do with equality today even though they still claim it does because whenever I yell at a feminist for some sexist act or statement they tell me things like "Real men don't want equality when it comes to this", like are you serious? I actually just recently commented on a story where a woman who assaulted a man and got off with parole (it was on FB so i don't have the link, sorry). People were saying the man should have gone to jail because he hit her back at one point. I was dumbfounded and said something along the lines of.

"No one should be hitting anyone...but self defense is self defense. Just because she is a girl doesn't make it any different."

My feminist friend appears and says "No man should ever hit a woman because woman are physically inferior to men."

I scratched my head and said, "Are you kidding me? I am 98 pounds and about 5'5. Do you know how many women are physically inferior to me? Not many. Are you saying if I hit a woman back that assaulted me that I should go to jail? We have equality for a reason you know."

Then her feminist friend comes up and says "REAL MEN DON'T WANT EQUALITY WHEN IT COMES TO HITTING WOMEN, ONLY LITTLE BOYS DO. YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE BOY." and i broke down laughing out of disbelief as I watched my friend like her comment and vocally agree with her.

Feminist paternalism can be absolutely shocking. So much of the rhetoric and activism seems to presume that women are somehow deficient and basically draw a line between "women" and "people.

It's almost as if they view men and women as different species.

[Vashty]

Just gonna interrupt with the fact my university has a "Women's' Officer" and no "Men's Officer" on their Student Union. I believe this isn't really equal.

[Naretion]

That's a bit of a loaded statement. Got any examples to back it up?

Well there was that one time someone killed themselves for the cause.
Amittedly she didn't mean to get trampled by the horse, and she didn't cause the deaths of anyone else, but....

Reminds me. Here in New York, feminists, LGBT, and other groups got a "International Men's Day" event on a college campus canceled because they found focusing on mens' issues to be sexist. A boy who helped plan the event and was going to take great heed in having some of his own issues (Male suicide being higher being one) taken seriously for once was very upset by this. So upset in fact, that he killed himself. And in the eyes of the Feminists, LGBT, and the rest, he was a sexist that died for a sexist cause. Feminists had always been on my bad side but I really didn't except any LGBT group to be so against equality.

[Fartsniffage]

That's a bit of a loaded statement. Got any examples to back it up?

Well there was that one time someone killed themselves for the cause.
Amittedly she didn't mean to get trampled by the horse, and she didn't cause the deaths of anyone else, but....

The most well known act of militancy was by Emily Davison who threw herself under the King's horse at Epsom Racecourse in June 1913. She died a few days later.

There were, however, many other acts of militancy. Throughout the country members of the WSPU made themselves busy targeting the establishment and political elite who they viewed did not support their campaign.

The contents of hundreds of letter boxes were set alight or corrosive acids or liquids poured over the letters and postcards inside, and thousands of shop and office windows were smashed with hammers. Telephone wires were cut, and graffiti slogans began appearing on the streets.

Across the country specially selected empty houses were burned down, many of them belonging to prominent members of society, and the refreshment rooms on several of the Royal Parks were attacked by the arsonists.

The symbols of sole male preserves were attacked. Golf courses were dug and huge slogans painted across the greens. Cricket pavilions were set alight, as were horse racing venues.

In the British Museum exhibits were damaged, and in the National Gallery paintings including one of the Duke of Wellington were attacked with an axe. In the Tower of London a jewellery case was smashed, and the Tate Gallery was forced to close.

http://www.historyhouse.co.uk/articles/ ... ettes.html

[Vashty]

That's a bit of a loaded statement. Got any examples to back it up?

Well there was that one time someone killed themselves for the cause.
Amittedly she didn't mean to get trampled by the horse, and she didn't cause the deaths of anyone else, but....

They blew up Lloyd George's house and burned a few churches.
Violence can be used for good.

Ah fuck Fart fucking beat me.

[Alvecia]

Well there was that one time someone killed themselves for the cause.
Amittedly she didn't mean to get trampled by the horse, and she didn't cause the deaths of anyone else, but....

The most well known act of militancy was by Emily Davison who threw herself under the King's horse at Epsom Racecourse in June 1913. She died a few days later.

There were, however, many other acts of militancy. Throughout the country members of the WSPU made themselves busy targeting the establishment and political elite who they viewed did not support their campaign.

The contents of hundreds of letter boxes were set alight or corrosive acids or liquids poured over the letters and postcards inside, and thousands of shop and office windows were smashed with hammers. Telephone wires were cut, and graffiti slogans began appearing on the streets.

Across the country specially selected empty houses were burned down, many of them belonging to prominent members of society, and the refreshment rooms on several of the Royal Parks were attacked by the arsonists.

The symbols of sole male preserves were attacked. Golf courses were dug and huge slogans painted across the greens. Cricket pavilions were set alight, as were horse racing venues.

In the British Museum exhibits were damaged, and in the National Gallery paintings including one of the Duke of Wellington were attacked with an axe. In the Tower of London a jewellery case was smashed, and the Tate Gallery was forced to close.

http://www.historyhouse.co.uk/articles/ ... ettes.html

Yeah, I get it. I was trying to be snarky. Shoulda know it'd get jumped all over...

[Des-Bal]

It's almost as if they view men and women as different species.

I think the results of that attitude are dangerous and far reaching, compare a guide on dealing with women in the workplace to a manual on animal wrangling and you'll notice striking similarities. That's not just theories or rhetoric, people are being trained to treat women differently for the ostensible goal of equality.

[Des-Bal]

Yeah, I get it. I was trying to be snarky. Shoulda know it'd get jumped all over...

In your defense even though some of the actions taken by those in the movement may have constituted terrorism in a technical sense that's really inherent to living in a world where fucks aren't required to wear signs.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It's almost as if they view men and women as different species.

I think the results of that attitude are dangerous and far reaching, compare a guide on dealing with women in the workplace to a manual on animal wrangling and you'll notice striking similarities. That's not just theories or rhetoric, people are being trained to treat women differently for the ostensible goal of equality.

Hence the claims by anti-feminists of hypocrisy, cognitive dissonance, etc.

[Fartsniffage]

It's almost as if they view men and women as different species.

I think the results of that attitude are dangerous and far reaching, compare a guide on dealing with women in the workplace to a manual on animal wrangling and you'll notice striking similarities. That's not just theories or rhetoric, people are being trained to treat women differently for the ostensible goal of equality.

The fuck do you work where the manuals on dealing with the opposite sex are the same as for animal wrangling?

[Vashty]

It's almost as if they view men and women as different species.

I think the results of that attitude are dangerous and far reaching, compare a guide on dealing with women in the workplace to a manual on animal wrangling and you'll notice striking similarities. That's not just theories or rhetoric, people are being trained to treat women differently for the ostensible goal of equality.

I believe that's due to the nature of capitalism, divide and conquer etc.

If you get rid of the capitalist workplace, perhaps gender polarization, competitiveness and indeed conflict could be gone.

[Vashty]

I think the results of that attitude are dangerous and far reaching, compare a guide on dealing with women in the workplace to a manual on animal wrangling and you'll notice striking similarities. That's not just theories or rhetoric, people are being trained to treat women differently for the ostensible goal of equality.

The fuck do you work where the manuals on dealing with the opposite sex are the same as for animal wrangling?

BDSM studio obvs

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I think the results of that attitude are dangerous and far reaching, compare a guide on dealing with women in the workplace to a manual on animal wrangling and you'll notice striking similarities. That's not just theories or rhetoric, people are being trained to treat women differently for the ostensible goal of equality.

The fuck do you work where the manuals on dealing with the opposite sex are the same as for animal wrangling?

"Remember, when approaching a female human, to keep calm and maintain eye contact. Deviation of this is seen as a threat and will result in violence"


Yeah maybe not animal wrangling...

[Naretion]

The fuck do you work where the manuals on dealing with the opposite sex are the same as for animal wrangling?

"Remember, when approaching a female human, to keep calm and maintain eye contact. Deviation of this is seen as a threat and will result in violence"


Yeah maybe not animal wrangling...

Fun Fact: If a woman assaults a man, the man can legally be arrested for it. (In the US at least.)

So that, while sarcastic advice, is actually very recommendable. Except they might see eye contact as a form of hostility. And you can't look down cause then you're a perv staring at their breasts. And you can't look anywhere else but their face cause then you're a perv checking them out. And you can't stare at their face cause then you're some creep (unless they think you're hot). So just rip your eyes out and you are good =P

[Des-Bal]

The fuck do you work where the manuals on dealing with the opposite sex are the same as for animal wrangling?

Listen to someone explain proper forms of workplace interaction with a female coworker and try not to imagine them saying "make enough noise to avoid startling the animal."