NATION

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We Do Not Come in Peace [Closed][OOC/Planning]

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]

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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:11 pm

Menelmacar wrote:I'm not on the ground, but a lot has transpired in orbit. Your fleet could probably attempt to resist, but their position will be untenable. I'm not sure what you want to do there.

The idea would be that they set down in some rear area shortly after commencement and have since been preoccupied with setting up/sorting out command channels/things. Basically out of sight, out of mind, allowing them to join in the ground fight in a way that means that everybody has acted logically and not ignored the small flotilla sitting around in orbit.
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Hobbiest Republic
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Postby Hobbiest Republic » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:25 pm

Are they all capable of landing on the planet without severe damage? The Space ships that is?
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:33 pm

Goddamn this Thread moves fast, I'll try and get a post out now.
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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:37 pm

Hobbiest Republic wrote:Are they all capable of landing on the planet without severe damage? The Space ships that is?

The ships are all fairly small. The largest ships are mid-size cruisers in the 100-200 meter range, all built for atmospheric operation.
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Hobbiest Republic
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Postby Hobbiest Republic » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:40 pm

That's interesting. Given our current technology and ability to deploy I might have to hit you up for some of those when this is all said and done.
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:42 pm

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:
Hobbiest Republic wrote:Are they all capable of landing on the planet without severe damage? The Space ships that is?

The ships are all fairly small. The largest ships are mid-size cruisers in the 100-200 meter range, all built for atmospheric operation.


I hope you know how to get them past the Imperial Fleet. If we detect anything coming into the Atmosphere without being cleared with us. We're throwing the Hastatus at it. Possibly the Escorts too, seeing as how it's unlikely they'll be needed elsewhere.
Last edited by Tinfect on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, Female


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Imperium Central News Network: Aeravahn occupy 1/5 of Exterior Territories, battered Third Fleet withdrawn from combat | Dejected Intelligence Operative enrolled in children's school, claims 'punishment for disobeying orders' | Experimental agricultural fungus accidentally released in New Kol, infects plant life, HLE teams deployed to remove infected plants | Indomitable Bastard #283
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:49 pm

Post made.

Menelmacar, if you have any issue with the shield capabilities, please discuss. I based the result on this:
  • You stated that actual helium plasma was the vector for the weapon's energy. Helium plasma, like all plasma forms of matter, is ionized and easily influenced by electromagnetic fields. This is the reason we use magnetic shields to keep plasma shielding in place
  • The plasma lance does not appear to work like the high-distort missiles, that is, it appears to travel through space and not underneath reality. Thus it would make contact with the point at your magnetic field where our plasma shield is kept in place, and would likely be repelled from the ship. This impact would probably force the projectile apart.
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:04 pm

Tinfect wrote:
OMGeverynameistaken wrote:The ships are all fairly small. The largest ships are mid-size cruisers in the 100-200 meter range, all built for atmospheric operation.


I hope you know how to get them past the Imperial Fleet. If we detect anything coming into the Atmosphere without being cleared with us. We're throwing the Hastatus at it. Possibly the Escorts too, seeing as how it's unlikely they'll be needed elsewhere.

This would have occurred early in the thread, before anybody had set up any sort of blockade. I would assume at that point the only resistance to the landing would come from the planet's occupants.

(Do we have an IRC room we could use for this?)
Last edited by OMGeverynameistaken on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hobbiest Republic
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Postby Hobbiest Republic » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:17 pm

Excidium, I've been doing some reading on similar explosions, and chances are your hoverbikes at 500 meters probably bit it too. Just making sure I'm reading that right. Additionally as an exercise in clarification, when you said with the '*' that you weren't sure if that's actually a thing in regards to the AA directly firing at a base? Were you not sure if they could be used like that? What part weren't you sure of?

60-ton explosion

distance between braamfontein and fordsburg
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:18 pm

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:This would have occurred early in the thread, before anybody had set up any sort of blockade. I would assume at that point the only resistance to the landing would come from the planet's occupants.


Uh...
I should probably go back and read through the Thread more than a few posts back, huh?
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Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, Male
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, Female


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: Aeravahn occupy 1/5 of Exterior Territories, battered Third Fleet withdrawn from combat | Dejected Intelligence Operative enrolled in children's school, claims 'punishment for disobeying orders' | Experimental agricultural fungus accidentally released in New Kol, infects plant life, HLE teams deployed to remove infected plants | Indomitable Bastard #283
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:26 pm

Hobbiest Republic wrote:Excidium, I've been doing some reading on similar explosions, and chances are your hoverbikes at 500 meters probably bit it too. Just making sure I'm reading that right. Additionally as an exercise in clarification, when you said with the '*' that you weren't sure if that's actually a thing in regards to the AA directly firing at a base? Were you not sure if they could be used like that? What part weren't you sure of?

60-ton explosion

distance between braamfontein and fordsburg



Oops. Collateral damage, I guess. No one said my soldiers were particularly good at gauging how big of an explosion our new untested nuclear "bullets" make.

The * was in reference to "Hobbiest Republicans"
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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Hobbiest Republic
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Postby Hobbiest Republic » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:41 pm

I'm open to each culture's take on how to refer to Hobbiests, there's certainly even some somewhat clever slurs that have come up. perhaps your way of referring to them as Hobbiest Republicans, is a little more formal than they are used to, but equally appropriate.
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The Ctan
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Postby The Ctan » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:26 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:Post made.

Menelmacar, if you have any issue with the shield capabilities, please discuss. I based the result on this:
  • You stated that actual helium plasma was the vector for the weapon's energy. Helium plasma, like all plasma forms of matter, is ionized and easily influenced by electromagnetic fields. This is the reason we use magnetic shields to keep plasma shielding in place


That's not actually the case. The plasma would normally account for no more than 5% of of the energy expended by the weapon, and as quoted there 2-3%; the overwhelming majority of it is a directional spacetime folding effect that functions essentially as an undirected relativistic missile.

On an OOC level, this is because back in 2003 or so Menelmacari weapons were written as 'directed plasma' but from 2008 at the latest and probably earlier, they were essentially retconned into being a far more sophisticated weapon (or perhaps this version was invented at the corresponding IC time) that contains a fusion element as a side-effect of its function, when it was pointed out (by me, chiefly) that plasma is never a viable weapon and cannot be for the reasons you state among others. It retains a small measure of 'plasma' in its operations for the sake of tying in with pre-2007 descriptions, but it's in no meaningful sense a plasma weapon. It would be better called a spacefold gun, but that sounds daft.

Essentially the very small amount of "plasma" is produced as it compresses matter along its path, like a very small accretion disc. Starships sometimes (though not always) inject hydrogen into the gun as a 'tracer' element but this is wholly tangenital to the damaging functions which is 98% physical impact. The denser the material it passes through, the more energy is lost in compressing the physical matter it passes through and the more energy it sheds as it moves, so while it can theoretically pass through rock and hit something on the other side, it will spend energy displacing (IE pulverising) the rock as it goes through, usually to no benefit for the rock.

Fielding this question as I came up with the post-retcon description; it is of course, rampant pseudo-science, but it's at least coherent (snrk) pseudo-science. ;)

The two other Ventus craft continue their assault on the Doom Scythes, undeterred by the loss of their missiles. The Ventus craft prioritize the damaged Doom Scythes, determined to finish the enemy off.

On a more pertinent note, what about the 20 other fighters now attacking those 2 Ventuses? The Doom Scythes passed by them, their twenty escorts are attacking those two fighters, ten fighters concentrating fire on each Ventus.

Also it should be noted that the electron-weapons are described as secondary weapons on the doom scythes, their big ground attack gun is a collimated electromagnetic (laser/maser/graser/xaser, adjustable by user) beam. Whether that matters to the effects of your shields I have no idea, it's this they'd be primarily shooting the artillery with.
Last edited by The Ctan on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:47 am, edited 8 times in total.
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"The Necrons were amongst the first beings to come into existance, and have sworn that they will rule over the living." - Still surprisingly accurate!
"Be you anywhere from Progress Level 5 or 6 and barely space-competent, all the way up to the current record of PL-20 for beings like the C’Tan..." Lord General Superior Rai’a Sirisi, Xenohumanity
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:47 pm

The Ctan wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:Post made.

Menelmacar, if you have any issue with the shield capabilities, please discuss. I based the result on this:
  • You stated that actual helium plasma was the vector for the weapon's energy. Helium plasma, like all plasma forms of matter, is ionized and easily influenced by electromagnetic fields. This is the reason we use magnetic shields to keep plasma shielding in place


That's not actually the case. The plasma would normally account for no more than 5% of of the energy expended by the weapon, and as quoted there 2-3%; the overwhelming majority of it is a directional spacetime folding effect that functions essentially as an undirected relativistic missile.

On an OOC level, this is because back in 2003 or so Menelmacari weapons were written as 'directed plasma' but from 2008 at the latest and probably earlier, they were essentially retconned into being a far more sophisticated weapon (or perhaps this version was invented at the corresponding IC time) that contains a fusion element as a side-effect of its function, when it was pointed out (by me, chiefly) that plasma is never a viable weapon and cannot be for the reasons you state among others. It retains a small measure of 'plasma' in its operations for the sake of tying in with pre-2007 descriptions, but it's in no meaningful sense a plasma weapon. It would be better called a spacefold gun, but that sounds daft.

Essentially the very small amount of "plasma" is produced as it compresses matter along its path, like a very small accretion disc. Starships sometimes (though not always) inject hydrogen into the gun as a 'tracer' element but this is wholly tangenital to the damaging functions which is 98% physical impact. The denser the material it passes through, the more energy is lost in compressing the physical matter it passes through and the more energy it sheds as it moves, so while it can theoretically pass through rock and hit something on the other side, it will spend energy displacing (IE pulverising) the rock as it goes through, usually to no benefit for the rock.

Fielding this question as I came up with the post-retcon description; it is of course, rampant pseudo-science, but it's at least coherent (snrk) pseudo-science. ;)


Okay, so what happens if the plasma hits a magnetic field? Does the spacetime distortion continue on its path?

The two other Ventus craft continue their assault on the Doom Scythes, undeterred by the loss of their missiles. The Ventus craft prioritize the damaged Doom Scythes, determined to finish the enemy off.

On a more pertinent note, what about the 20 other fighters now attacking those 2 Ventuses? The Doom Scythes passed by them, their twenty escorts are attacking those two fighters, ten fighters concentrating fire on each Ventus.

I'm going to admit that I read your post twice and did not get that at all. I'll correct that, those Ventures are likely lost.


Also it should be noted that the electron-weapons are described as secondary weapons on the doom scythes, their big ground attack gun is a collimated electromagnetic (laser/maser/graser/xaser, adjustable by user) beam. Whether that matters to the effects of your shields I have no idea, it's this they'd be primarily shooting the artillery with.

That would probably change things. The Artillery would likely be destroyed. Not that it matters, I imagined they'd die anyways.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
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News: None. Good, right?

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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Since nobody seems to have objections to it, I'll make my next post under the assumption that the Russian mercenary forces have been staging somewhere near the Kaybor border battle.
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The Ctan
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Postby The Ctan » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Well I was planning to attack the space-russkie mercs and my bigger landing force was headed to some fifty km away (I think, I'd have to take a look at the post; some distance anyway) to begin landing to attack them, but I'm not sure if Menelmacar will get their employers to make them stand down at this point so the C'tani won't advance but will try and land and fortify themselves.

Excidium Planetis wrote:Okay, so what happens if the plasma hits a magnetic field? Does the spacetime distortion continue on its path?
Pretty much; it can be likened best to a generic neutral particle beam maybe.

I'm going to admit that I read your post twice and did not get that at all. I'll correct that, those Ventures are likely lost.

Also it should be noted that the electron-weapons are described as secondary weapons on the doom scythes, their big ground attack gun is a collimated electromagnetic (laser/maser/graser/xaser, adjustable by user) beam. Whether that matters to the effects of your shields I have no idea, it's this they'd be primarily shooting the artillery with.

That would probably change things. The Artillery would likely be destroyed. Not that it matters, I imagined they'd die anyways.

Thanks man.
Last edited by The Ctan on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. When I hear anyone arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." ~ Abraham Lincoln
"The Necrons were amongst the first beings to come into existance, and have sworn that they will rule over the living." - Still surprisingly accurate!
"Be you anywhere from Progress Level 5 or 6 and barely space-competent, all the way up to the current record of PL-20 for beings like the C’Tan..." Lord General Superior Rai’a Sirisi, Xenohumanity
"Many races and faiths have considered themselves to be a threat to the Necrons, but their worlds and their cultures are now little more than interesting archaeology."

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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:44 am

Was about to start writing next IC post...

Realized it was 3:40 in the morning.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:02 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:Was about to start writing next IC post...

Realized it was 3:40 in the morning.


That's no excuse!
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Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, Male
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Imperium Central News Network: Aeravahn occupy 1/5 of Exterior Territories, battered Third Fleet withdrawn from combat | Dejected Intelligence Operative enrolled in children's school, claims 'punishment for disobeying orders' | Experimental agricultural fungus accidentally released in New Kol, infects plant life, HLE teams deployed to remove infected plants | Indomitable Bastard #283
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Postby Singaporean Transhumans » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:04 am

goddamit everyone else is having fun and my srpska dobrovoljacka garda is stuck in vukovar
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:32 pm

Singaporean Transhumans wrote:goddamit everyone else is having fun and my srpska dobrovoljacka garda is stuck in vukovar


Sorry. I'll work on a Chriiran post. I need to one anyways, as the Cossacks will be fighting Kaybor and Kendi forces.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
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News: None. Good, right?

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Menelmacar
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Postby Menelmacar » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:54 pm

Any chance of an edit to the Piercing Descent post per the clarification on my plascannons by C'tan? I mean, it's not a huge deal, I can just shoot it with something else, but I'm a bit stuck until that point.
Last edited by Menelmacar on Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:09 pm

Menelmacar wrote:Any chance of an edit to the Piercing Descent post per the clarification on my plascannons by C'tan? I mean, it's not a huge deal, I can just shoot it with something else, but I'm a bit stuck until that point.


I'll include the effects of the plascannons in my post.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:21 pm

Hey, C'tan,by your last post's quote referencing Fokkers, I assume you believe that my fighters executed the historic Immelman turn. However, as apparent in the quote, the historical Immelman turn was for planes with far inferior engines.

Instead, my interceptors used the modern aerobatics maneuver:
Image


Not sure if that changes things, but the modern maneuver is for higher speed aircraft (modern fighter jets, which are still slower than the Ventuses but must faster than WWI fighter planes).
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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Menelmacar
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Postby Menelmacar » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:58 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Menelmacar wrote:Any chance of an edit to the Piercing Descent post per the clarification on my plascannons by C'tan? I mean, it's not a huge deal, I can just shoot it with something else, but I'm a bit stuck until that point.


I'll include the effects of the plascannons in my post.

Awesome, thank you! :hug:
Lady Sirithil nos Fëanor
Elentári of the Eternal Ascendancy of Menelmacar
High Queen and Lady-Protector of Elvenkind

"The elves will do what is right, not what is on paper." ~Sunset
"We can't go around supporting The Good Of All Things. People might mistake us for Menelmacar." ~Education Minister Lobon of Kn-Yan
"Do you realize you're trying to sell resources to Menelmafuckingcar? Their resource base is larger than Melkor's ego." ~Advisor Julius Razak, Foot-to-Ass Section, Scolopendra
"I started on NS at a time when elf genocides were daily occurrences from week old nations wanting to get ortilleried by Menelmacar." ~Resurgent Dream

Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: 8.75 Social Lib/Auth: 2.05

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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:08 pm

Menelmacar wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:
I'll include the effects of the plascannons in my post.

Awesome, thank you! :hug:


How good are your orbital observation satellite things?

Hobbiest Republic asked for pinpointing of Operations Base Inferno via tracking the rail line, but the rail line is not only really small, but also camouflaged to look like the desert, as previously established.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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