European Migrant Crisis Megathread

[The Lone Alliance]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/world ... risis.html

So basically if this article is right the problem with Eastern Europe wanting to host refugees is:

1. They are racially and religiously homogeneous nations that aren't used to other cultures.
2. They're still struggling and they have less economical advantages that Western Europe does.
3. They're still very nationalist.
4. Since they didn't run around conquering and subjugating the Middle East and Africa during the past 200 years they don't feel responsible or guilty for the problems of the 3rd world.

Stop insulting Assad. If Assad wins the war the refugees will stop coming and everyone can be happy and this crisis is all over and than NS can talk about more happy things.

1. If Assad wins, it will be over the bodies of thousands of innocents
2. If Assad wins, he will crack down hard on any democratic reform
3. If Assad wins, it will only be a matter of time before the next one
4. If Assad wins, Syria will still be left a pile of rubble and ashes

1. If Anyone wins, it will be over the bodies of thousands of innocents.
2. Both Assad and the Islamists winning will mean the death of any democratic reform.
3. If the Rebels win we'll most likely eventually see a Libya situation because Islamists are going to be Islamists.
4. Syria is already a pile of rubble and ashes.

Unless the Islamists are also eliminated, defeating Assad will just invite something worse to take it's place.

But genocide doesn't sit well in the west anymore.

[Geilinor]

Assad is a peaceful, candide, naive sheep in comparison to the ones who might actually seize power in Syria. And if THEY manage to win, then let me tell you that the bloodshed won't finish before the last Christians, Jew, Ibadi, Kurds and Shiites have been all slaughtered to the last. It's as simple as that.
Assad know that the minority are the ones who are ensuring his rule and thus protect them, at least to some point. The fundamentalist who want to take the power, however, are in a totally contrary position.

And for the last part, sorry but I don't like auto-flagellation especially when it's something which indeed, don't concern us. When the people will stop scrapping at our doors so we let them in, then the situation in Syria won't be a problem for us anymore.

Assad isn't peaceful or a sheep. He has the power and he knows what he's doing - it's terrible.

[The Greater Lebanon]

Assad is a peaceful, candide, naive sheep in comparison to the ones who might actually seize power in Syria. And if THEY manage to win, then let me tell you that the bloodshed won't finish before the last Christians, Jew, Ibadi, Kurds and Shiites have been all slaughtered to the last. It's as simple as that.
Assad know that the minority are the ones who are ensuring his rule and thus protect them, at least to some point. The fundamentalist who want to take the power, however, are in a totally contrary position.

And for the last part, sorry but I don't like auto-flagellation especially when it's something which indeed, don't concern us. When the people will stop scrapping at our doors so we let them in, then the situation in Syria won't be a problem for us anymore.

Assad isn't peaceful or a sheep. He has the power and he knows what he's doing - it's terrible.

Assad loves the fact that Syrian refugees are fleeing Syria in every direction possible. Its a form of "Ethnic cleansing without him directly being accused of" in Syria from its Sunnis.

[Imperializt Russia]

Assad is a peaceful, candide, naive sheep in comparison to the ones who might actually seize power in Syria. And if THEY manage to win, then let me tell you that the bloodshed won't finish before the last Christians, Jew, Ibadi, Kurds and Shiites have been all slaughtered to the last. It's as simple as that.
Assad know that the minority are the ones who are ensuring his rule and thus protect them, at least to some point. The fundamentalist who want to take the power, however, are in a totally contrary position.

And for the last part, sorry but I don't like auto-flagellation especially when it's something which indeed, don't concern us. When the people will stop scrapping at our doors so we let them in, then the situation in Syria won't be a problem for us anymore.

Assad isn't peaceful or a sheep. He has the power and he knows what he's doing - it's terrible.

Assad is a peaceful, candide, naive sheep in comparison to the ones who might actually seize power in Syria.

[The Lone Alliance]

Assad loves the fact that Syrian refugees are fleeing Syria in every direction possible. Its a form of "Ethnic cleansing without him directly being accused of" in Syria from its Sunnis.

At this rate there will be more non-Syrians in Syria than actual Syrians.

I mean Hezebollah might as well outright move to Syria now at this rate.

[San Lumen]

Syria is the worst kind of dictatorship possible a tyranny of the minority and they will stop at nothing to stay in power even if that means killing thousands more. Let's not forget Syria isn't the only country people are migrating from. People are coming from Iraq, Eritrea, Libya, Sudan,and Egypt too.

[North Calaveras]

Syria is the worst kind of dictatorship possible a tyranny of the minority and they will stop at nothing to stay in power even if that means killing thousands more. Let's not forget Syria isn't the only country people are migrating from. People are coming from Iraq, Eritrea, Libya, Sudan,and Egypt too.

Syria is better than say, saudi arabia

[MERIZoC]

Syria is the worst kind of dictatorship possible a tyranny of the minority and they will stop at nothing to stay in power even if that means killing thousands more. Let's not forget Syria isn't the only country people are migrating from. People are coming from Iraq, Eritrea, Libya, Sudan,and Egypt too.

Syria is better than say, saudi arabia

Eh, while Saudi Arabia is really, really awful, at the moment it isn't waging war against its citizens, so that's a plus.

[North Calaveras]

Syria is better than say, saudi arabia

Eh, while Saudi Arabia is really, really awful, at the moment it isn't waging war against its citizens, so that's a plus.

im saying when they are both stable, id rather live in Syria than Saudi Arabia.

[San Lumen]

Eh, while Saudi Arabia is really, really awful, at the moment it isn't waging war against its citizens, so that's a plus.

im saying when they are both stable, id rather live in Syria than Saudi Arabia.

Syria may very well crumble soon and the extremists like ISIS that even Al Qaeda has disowned and want nothing to with could take power in Damascus. If that happens even more people will leave Syria and go to Europe.

[Gauthier]

Eh, while Saudi Arabia is really, really awful, at the moment it isn't waging war against its citizens, so that's a plus.

im saying when they are both stable, id rather live in Syria than Saudi Arabia.

I hear the barrel bombs and chemicals are lovely this time of year.

[North Calaveras]

im saying when they are both stable, id rather live in Syria than Saudi Arabia.

I hear the barrel bombs and chemicals are lovely this time of year.

tis the season

[Neu Leonstein]

None of which answers the question:
Why is that a reason to not treat people, fleeing to Europe from the Middle East, with compassion and basic human decency?

your case would make sense if there was compassion and basic human decency in the middle east, both are lacking.

It seems you haven't quite got the idea behind compassion or human decency. Those are not based on quid pro quo.

Not that it matters anyway. All European nations are parties to the conventions regarding refugees and owe it to every single one of them to honestly assess their status and treat them accordingly. Whether in some alternate universe you think some other country would be doing something is entirely irrelevant to the obligations under the convention.

[North Calaveras]

your case would make sense if there was compassion and basic human decency in the middle east, both are lacking.

It seems you haven't quite got the idea behind compassion or human decency. Those are not based on quid pro quo.

Not that it matters anyway. All European nations are parties to the conventions regarding refugees and owe it to every single one of them to honestly assess their status and treat them accordingly. Whether in some alternate universe you think some other country would be doing something is entirely irrelevant to the obligations under the convention.

oh that's right "international law"

[Apollinis]

It seems you haven't quite got the idea behind compassion or human decency. Those are not based on quid pro quo.

Not that it matters anyway. All European nations are parties to the conventions regarding refugees and owe it to every single one of them to honestly assess their status and treat them accordingly. Whether in some alternate universe you think some other country would be doing something is entirely irrelevant to the obligations under the convention.

oh that's right "international law"

International law is a thing, yes.

[Neu Leonstein]

oh that's right "international law"

If you don't like that term, call it "treaties signed in good faith by the legitimate governments of sovereign nation states by their own volition". So in other words, if you decide not to follow said obligations, it's basically a little bit like breaking bilateral treaties with 100+ other countries.

[North Calaveras]

oh that's right "international law"

International law is a thing, yes.

it is a fragile thing that is hardly ever enforced until it becomes convenient.

otherwise hamas wouldn't exist.

[North Calaveras]

oh that's right "international law"

If you don't like that term, call it "treaties signed in good faith by the legitimate governments of sovereign nation states by their own volition". So in other words, if you decide not to follow said obligations, it's basically a little bit like breaking bilateral treaties with 100+ other countries.

this happens all the damn time, to the point that these "laws" might as well be toilet paper.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

It seems you haven't quite got the idea behind compassion or human decency. Those are not based on quid pro quo.

Not that it matters anyway. All European nations are parties to the conventions regarding refugees and owe it to every single one of them to honestly assess their status and treat them accordingly. Whether in some alternate universe you think some other country would be doing something is entirely irrelevant to the obligations under the convention.

oh that's right "international law"

International law. That thing that has guarenteed national sovereignty, human rights, safeguards from genocide and which has put many war criminals on trial. It fucking works.

1. If Assad wins, it will be over the bodies of thousands of innocents
2. If Assad wins, he will crack down hard on any democratic reform
3. If Assad wins, it will only be a matter of time before the next one
4. If Assad wins, Syria will still be left a pile of rubble and ashes

Not everything will be fine. Nothing will be fine. The refugees won't stop coming. The problems aren't over when the refugees stop coming. This crisis won't be over. In the closed mind of us westerners, the trouble might cease when the refugees aren't coming any more, but there is so much going on there, I can't even begin to describe it all. No, the problems won't be over. In our little minds, our self-centred egotism, it might be. But reality doesn't abide by our arrogance.

Let me tell you something. Assad is a peaceful, candide, naive sheep in comparison to the ones who might actually seize power in Syria. And if THEY manage to win, then let me tell you that the bloodshed won't finish before the last Christians, Jew, Ibadi, Kurds and Shiites have been all slaughtered to the last. It's as simple as that.
Assad know that the minority are the ones who are ensuring his rule and thus protect them, at least to some point. The fundamentalist who want to take the power, however, are in a totally contrary position.

And for the last part, sorry but I don't like auto-flagellation especially when it's something which indeed, don't concern us. When the people will stop scrapping at our doors so we let them in, then the situation in Syria won't be a problem for us anymore.

This thing is not IS vs Assad. There are more parties involved. More moderates involved. You can't deny their existance. If they get power, it will be better than Assad, and better than IS. If they can maintain it.

I'm sorry, but it will remain our problem. It will continue to affect us. We live in such a connected world that a war can't help but have effect. Besides, we're talking about human welfare, that should always concern us.

[North Calaveras]

I wish "international law" would do something about the starving and killings in North Korea

I wish "international law" would stop the warlods in africa

I wish "International law" would keep tyraniccal governments from cracking down on their citizens

yup, works so well.

but hey, im glad you put a few war criminals on trial.

[Imperializt Russia]

I wish "international law" would do something about the starving and killings in North Korea

I wish "international law" would stop the warlods in africa

I wish "International law" would keep tyraniccal governments from cracking down on their citizens

yup, works so well.

but hey, im glad you put a few war criminals on trial.

These things still occur because your government does not believe in expending your life, as a serviceperson. Nor the lives of thousands of civilians in those countries who will inevitably be killed.

[North Calaveras]

I wish "international law" would do something about the starving and killings in North Korea

I wish "international law" would stop the warlods in africa

I wish "International law" would keep tyraniccal governments from cracking down on their citizens

yup, works so well.

but hey, im glad you put a few war criminals on trial.

These things still occur because your government does not believe in expending your life, as a serviceperson. Nor the lives of thousands of civilians in those countries who will inevitably be killed.

not just my government buddy, if it was it would be "american law" not "international"

[Imperializt Russia]

These things still occur because your government does not believe in expending your life, as a serviceperson. Nor the lives of thousands of civilians in those countries who will inevitably be killed.

not just my government buddy, if it was it would be "american law" not "international"

And who forms the muscle to back it?
Oh, right.

[North Calaveras]

not just my government buddy, if it was it would be "american law" not "international"

And who forms the muscle to back it?
Oh, right.

So what?

besides if we go in all the time people will see us as imperials and if we stay out we are not compassionate, we are damned both ways.

[Imperializt Russia]

And who forms the muscle to back it?
Oh, right.

So what?

besides if we go in all the time people will see us as imperials and if we stay out we are not compassionate, we are damned both ways.

But that's the price you pay for daring to have the global situation of the last 100 years you have.