Your Nations Warships, MKII

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Might have had something to do with the appalling weather conditions the IJN saw through their directors. It was the same for the Battlecruiser Fleet at Jutland, they spent ten minutes getting on target while the Germans started straddling with their third to fourth salvoes. Mind you this is a point for all-weather radar direction more than anything else.

And Grand Fleet started getting definitive hits at around 10 km's range, what is the point other than the one already established? Did you expect anything extraordinary from technology derived from the 1916's Royal Navy?
Besides, HMS Defence was annihilated at an absurdly short range of a mere 6-7 kilometers. Is it the fault of the German direction now, as their guns could reach out to 16 km's?

Jutland was fought with the then state of the art technologies. Leyte Gulf took place 30 years later, so one would expect there to have been better gunnery from the Japanese.

You get what you got when you country industrialized half-way no more than 50 years ago.

[New Oyashima]

Inferior insofar as to method. But IJN FCS was completely capable of matching USN FCS. I don't know where this "they had to be sailing straight" rumor came from, as Kongo was able to hit the maneuvering Taffy 3 Tin Cans with her main battery.

The Japanese didn't achieve a single hit until 15-20 minutes into the gunnery battle. The US Destroyer Escorts started getting hits within 5 minutes, and once they had one they locked their fire directors and scored a whole lot more before they started taking casualties.

Yet drew comparable results to USN FSC.

See the above.


If Japanese fire control was so advanced, why did they rely on colored splash down markers during the Battle off Samar?

I'm sure ROF had nothing to do with Taffy 3, right?

[Mitheldalond]

The Japanese didn't achieve a single hit until 15-20 minutes into the gunnery battle. The US Destroyer Escorts started getting hits within 5 minutes, and once they had one they locked their fire directors and scored a whole lot more before they started taking casualties.


See the above.


If Japanese fire control was so advanced, why did they rely on colored splash down markers during the Battle off Samar?

I'm sure ROF had nothing to do with Taffy 3, right?

Nor did the number of guns firing apparently.

[New Oyashima]

I'm sure ROF had nothing to do with Taffy 3, right?

Nor did the number of guns firing apparently.

35.6cm and 20cm with no autoloading mechanism vs 12.7mm lasers :^)

[North Arkana]

Nor did the number of guns firing apparently.

35.6cm and 20cm with no autoloading mechanism vs 12.7mm lasers :^)

You seem to be under the misconception there was autoloading happening in the destroyer turrets.

[New Oyashima]

35.6cm and 20cm with no autoloading mechanism vs 12.7mm lasers :^)

You seem to be under the misconception there was autoloading happening in the destroyer turrets.

I'm not. 15 RPM is pretty impressive.

[Gallia-]

Nor did the number of guns firing apparently.

35.6cm and 20cm with no autoloading mechanism vs 12.7mm lasers :^)

so i herd u like powered breech rammers ;)

[New Oyashima]

35.6cm and 20cm with no autoloading mechanism vs 12.7mm lasers :^)

so i herd u like powered breech rammers

15rpm vs an optimal 5rpm, regularly 3rpm. And that's only the 20cm.

[North Arkana]

so i herd u like powered breech rammers

15rpm vs an optimal 5rpm, regularly 3rpm. And that's only the 20cm.

Des Moines-class laughs at puny slow firing IJN cruisers.

[New Oyashima]

15rpm vs an optimal 5rpm, regularly 3rpm. And that's only the 20cm.

Des Moines-class laughs at puny slow firing IJN cruisers.

IJN had a huge problem with reload and gun traverse speed. That's why IJN AA was terrible, which was only made worse by not using bofors :^)

[North Arkana]

Des Moines-class laughs at puny slow firing IJN cruisers.

IJN had a huge problem with reload and gun traverse speed. That's why IJN AA was terrible, which was only made worse by not using bofors :^)

Bofors, master of mid-caliber AAA. Type 96 25mm... Not so much.

[Gallia-]

so i herd u like powered breech rammers

15rpm vs an optimal 5rpm, regularly 3rpm. And that's only the 20cm.

FWIW, the automatic gun-laying on late-war USN vessels likely played more of a factor than the gun crews' loading rates. Comparable inaccuracy was observed with older USN BBs that had radar rangefinders which still relied on manual input from the rangekeeper. I'm not sure if the IJN ever adopted any powered gun layers tbh.

[Triplebaconation]

I think the best idea is to use any WWII like ships by digging a canal, putting the ship inside it and surrounding it with sad and calling it a fortress.

There were proposals for this during the Cold War, actually.

[Mitheldalond]

So I have two options for a WWII anti-aircraft cruiser:

1. Basically a Cleveland-class with its main armament replaced by eight 6" guns in four Worchester-style dual-purpose turrets.

2. Not!Atlanta/Juneau.

Option 1 would be more unique, and probably stand a better chance against surface ships; bu option 2 would be smaller and likely cheaper, and 12-14 5"/38s is nothing to laugh at.

Which do you think would be more effective?

[Western Pacific Territories]

How effective is the Longsword?

Muhahahahaha

[Spirit of Hope]

How effective is the Longsword?

Muhahahahaha

I will note you posted this after getting a run down on it in the mil realism thread. Your evil laughter helps not at all either.

But to put simply it isn't effective. Mobile Over the Horizon Radar is hard to do, but can be done for much less money, resources and manpower than the Longsword. In addition the ability of the Longsword to do OTH is slightly debated.

You can also do a massive missile barrage better with ordinary ships than by using the Longsword. The Longsword has space for ~10,000 missiles. For its price you can buy ~1,000,000 Harpoon AShM's.

[The Akasha Colony]

Our small nation, founded on the fringe planet of the Ba'alat starzone, has no battleships of the maritime kind, other than trade ships sailing about our homeworld's waters, but rather, we have a space fleet.

Our nation's space fleet is very small, consisting of only a single fleet, the Homeland Fleet, led by Fleet Admiral Lasalle Lobos, on board his Ajax-class flagship, the only one of its kind:

(Image)
Flag Officer: Fleet Admiral Lasalle Lobos
Type: Ajax-class flagship
Purpose: Supreme Flagship
Length: 1159 metres
Width: 72 metres
Height: 358 metres
Armament: 30 forward neutron beam cannons
Crew: 1325
Units: 1

>Only one of its kind
>Commanded by Lasalle Lobos

*sigh*

There are so many better ones to choose from, but I guess that's what having Job Truniht as your head of state will do.

Washington, the Bismark's FCS would get killed on the first hit. If not because it gets destroyed itself, then because the shock knocks the sensitive components in the FCS out of alignment. It's what happened to Bismark when the Brits caught up with it, it would happen again.

You sure? The North Carolina class of BBs was designed in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty. Bismarck broke it by a mile.

Bismarck, like Yamato, was big and imposing but relatively inefficiently designed. The Germans hadn't really learned much since WWI, and that isn't surprising given that their navy was functionally non-existent until the 1930s. Their design groups, which had been pretty good at turning out efficient, compact designs, were disbanded which meant there was no real progress in German shipbuilding techniques for a very important decade, while the rest of the world was busy digesting the lessons of WWI. Bismarck was a brute force solution to the problem. Take the old Bayern-class design, and just make everything bigger. Thicker armor, longer guns, and then cram in whatever electronics were available. No improvement to engineering plant layout (three shafts/one rudder) or incorporation of stronger deck armor to resist longer-ranged fire or aircraft attack.

Yamato was a newer design as the Japanese had learned a bit from WWI, but suffered from poorer steel quality.

[Velkanika]

I'm cross posting this in from the Realism Consultation Thread due to it being almost entirely naval.

I've been working on a warship that's basically the old USN Strike Cruiser proposal except enlarged. Long story short, I've decided that it has enough tonnage to justify armoring it against the inevitable hits it will take from NS levels of missile spam. I've settled on a basic configuration, which is two torpedo bulkheads and a double bottom to control flooding from missile hits. Armor will be focused on the citadel in almost an all-or-nothing scheme, but other stations will have some armor as well against fragments and the lighter anti-ship weapons.

My questions are what kind of armor should I use for this, assuming a 1980-1990 technology level, and how much would I need to prevent catastrophic damage from a SS-N-19 hit to the citadel's belt armor.

[Gallia-]

Washington, the Bismark's FCS would get killed on the first hit. If not because it gets destroyed itself, then because the shock knocks the sensitive components in the FCS out of alignment. It's what happened to Bismark when the Brits caught up with it, it would happen again.

You sure? The North Carolina class of BBs was designed in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty. Bismarck broke it by a mile.

The US Navy has panache so there would be like 50 other battleships behind it and 50,000 planes.

[New Oyashima]

You sure? The North Carolina class of BBs was designed in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty. Bismarck broke it by a mile.

The US Navy has panache so there would be like 50 other battleships behind it and 50,000 planes.

And then the Bismarck would be crippled by 10,000 subs :c

[Gallia-]

The US Navy has panache so there would be like 50 other battleships behind it and 50,000 planes.

And then the Bismarck would be crippled by 10,000 subs :c

Well no it'd have been crippled by like 3 destroyers and 2 light carriers that futilely threw themselves at it i guess

panache yo

[New Oyashima]

So if I take a strike group, would it be optimal to operate X2 carriers in it?

[Balat]

Our small nation, founded on the fringe planet of the Ba'alat starzone, has no battleships of the maritime kind, other than trade ships sailing about our homeworld's waters, but rather, we have a space fleet.

Our nation's space fleet is very small, consisting of only a single fleet, the Homeland Fleet, led by Fleet Admiral Lasalle Lobos, on board his Ajax-class flagship, the only one of its kind:

(Image)
Flag Officer: Fleet Admiral Lasalle Lobos
Type: Ajax-class flagship
Purpose: Supreme Flagship
Length: 1159 metres
Width: 72 metres
Height: 358 metres
Armament: 30 forward neutron beam cannons
Crew: 1325
Units: 1

>Only one of its kind
>Commanded by Lasalle Lobos

*sigh*

There are so many better ones to choose from, but I guess that's what having Job Truniht as your head of state will do.

You sure? The North Carolina class of BBs was designed in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty. Bismarck broke it by a mile.

Bismarck, like Yamato, was big and imposing but relatively inefficiently designed. The Germans hadn't really learned much since WWI, and that isn't surprising given that their navy was functionally non-existent until the 1930s. Their design groups, which had been pretty good at turning out efficient, compact designs, were disbanded which meant there was no real progress in German shipbuilding techniques for a very important decade, while the rest of the world was busy digesting the lessons of WWI. Bismarck was a brute force solution to the problem. Take the old Bayern-class design, and just make everything bigger. Thicker armor, longer guns, and then cram in whatever electronics were available. No improvement to engineering plant layout (three shafts/one rudder) or incorporation of stronger deck armor to resist longer-ranged fire or aircraft attack.

Yamato was a newer design as the Japanese had learned a bit from WWI, but suffered from poorer steel quality.

Well, he did win the Battle of Dagon for us, so I guess that's something... Lasalle is okay, at least he listens to the young ones... sometimes. And we won't have any wars for a while. I hope.´

[The Akasha Colony]

Well, he did win the Battle of Dagon for us, so I guess that's something... Lasalle is okay, at least he listens to the young ones... sometimes. And we won't have any wars for a while. I hope.´

I was referring to Ajax herself, probably the second worst of known members of her class. Only Cu Chulainn was worse.

[Balat]

Well, it is the very first, come on, cut us a break, we built that one while running away from 52,000 ships hot on our tracks!

How exactly do you know the Ajax is worse than the rest of the Ajax-class flagships? Is there some sort of more detailed dabatase for these designs? Because the Cu Chulainn seems to be quite good compared to, say the Pergamonn or the Shiva, which had literally no fighting capability besides shooting forward (who thought 80 cannons facing only forward was a good idea? A single shot is usually enough to blow apart any enemy ship, so why 80!?)