New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

[Treznor]

OOC: I am afraid you are wrong Treznor, the defense budget is seperate from the fiscal budget. Besides, the way Obama is spending now he will surely surpass Bush's record in a year or so.

You know, you're right. I was mistaken about the defense budget bit. Bush quietly omitted the impact of his economic policies in his last two reports. And while Bush spent over $1.2 trillion for his wars over a very short time, projected revenue losses from his policies are estimated at around $2.2 trillion.

Mea culpa.

[Sibirsky]

OOC: I am afraid you are wrong Treznor, the defense budget is seperate from the fiscal budget. Besides, the way Obama is spending now he will surely surpass Bush's record in a year or so.

It won't take THAT long.

[Opola]

OOC: Ververia, I am not saying the Conservatives did not support him in 04' (which they did because he was running against strong liberals) but instead the true Conservative/Reagan Ideology is for less gov., less taxes not for more spending, more military.

That's absolute bullshit. Government massively increased under Reagan, it didn't get smaller, and spending shot up massively. No "conservative" president has made government any smaller since Calvin Coolidge to my knowledge. Also, if you think Democrats are strong liberals, I'd hate to see what you think of actual leftists. This whole "Bush isn't a real conservative" nonsense is completely disingenuous. Not by your personal definition perhaps, but he is a far-right wing American conservative.

Reagan only increased military spending because of the fucking Soviet Union. But Reagan believed that less government was better.
Anyway, Bush was not a true conservative but somewhat of a Fascist.

[Sibirsky]

OOC: Ververia, I am not saying the Conservatives did not support him in 04' (which they did because he was running against strong liberals) but instead the true Conservative/Reagan Ideology is for less gov., less taxes not for more spending, more military.

That's absolute bullshit. Government massively increased under Reagan, it didn't get smaller, and spending shot up massively. No "conservative" president has made government any smaller since Calvin Coolidge to my knowledge. Also, if you think Democrats are strong liberals, I'd hate to see what you think of actual leftists. This whole "Bush isn't a real conservative" nonsense is completely disingenuous. Not by your personal definition perhaps, but he is a far-right wing American conservative.

Reagan only increased military spending to crush the Soviet Union. Domestically, spending decreased.

[Neo Art]

Correct. Bush was not a conservative.

The hell he wasn't. He was everything the conservative movement stands for. Which, ironically enough, is very much the opposite of what it PRETENDS to stand for. However actions speak louder than words, and every single so called "conservative", and everyone backed by so called "conservatives", once they get a modicrum of power, lose all pretense of any kind of restraint, and reveal themselves to be exactly what they are.

And, of course, once their policies of the TRUE hallmarks of the "conservative" movement in American politics, become apparent, and their ass gets kicked out of office. Once that happens, the rest of the so called conservatives who supported him so wholeheartedly, knash their teeth, wail and moan about how this poor fool "abandoned conservative ideologies", and how they need to do things like "get back to their roots" and "fix the party".

In other words, it's a pure political hackery, a poor excuse of "gee, well you can't blame US for his poor policies, he wasn't a REAL conservative, but next time if you vote for a REAL conservative this won't happen!"

Until the next "real" conservative gets into office, and the cycle repeats, making it clear the only real conservative ideology is massive spending without regard for economic health, rampant moralizing of politics, and pandering to the religious right.

Bush was indeed a conservative. In fact he was everything conservatives ACTUALLY stand for. And by stand for, I mean not what they say on the campaign trail, what they write in their books, what they pretend to believe in. All of that is meaningless bullshit. The true measure of what a politican believes is not what he sayd, it's what they DO, once actually in power.

And in that vein, Bush Jr., once he ACTUALLY got into power, did exactly what every other conservative does when they get into power, just like his father before him, Reagan before him, Nixon before him, and so on down the line.

[Muravyets]

OOC: The true conservative way is much different than what his pathetic administration did.
Take a look and educate yourself before you talk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservati ... ted_States

Tip: General is not an RP forum.

Tip #2: This typical and self-serving CYA claim that Bush is No True Conservative does not in any way change the fact that it was Bush policies and Republican policies that created this mess, nor the fact that you came into this forum supporting those policies, regardless of whether you think they are really real conservatism or not. You don't get to avoid being tarred with that brush just by an after-the-fact "I'm not in that club" weasel-wiggle.

[Ashmoria]

They quote it, but let's just say that IBD Editorials isn't exactly known for being objective in their propaganda.

Editorials are not supposed to be objective.

yeah but they are supposed to be well reasoned and not blatant lies.

[Opola]

Correct. Bush was not a conservative.

The hell he wasn't. He was everything the conservative movement stands for. Which, ironically enough, is very much the opposite of what it PRETENDS to stand for. However actions speak louder than words, and every single so called "conservative", and everyone backed by so called "conservatives", once they get a modicrum of power, lose all pretense of any kind of restraint, and reveal themselves to be exactly what they are.

And, of course, once their policies of the TRUE hallmarks of the "conservative" movement in American politics, become apparent, and their ass gets kicked out of office. Once that happens, the rest of the so called conservatives who supported him so wholeheartedly, knash their teeth, wail and moan about how this poor fool "abandoned conservative ideologies", and how they need to do things like "get back to their roots" and "fix the party".

In other words, it's a pure political hackery, a poor excuse of "gee, well you can't blame US for his poor policies, he wasn't a REAL conservative, but next time if you vote for a REAL conservative this won't happen!"

Until the next "real" conservative gets into office, and the cycle repeats, making it clear the only real conservative ideology is massive spending without regard for economic health, rampant moralizing of politics, and pandering to the religious right.

Haha funny guy, eh? You are a moron, dude! Please get your facts straight. Bush was not what the Conservatives stand for. Let me reiterate the point so inmature people like you are "informed"

Conservatives stand for:

Less taxes on everyone
Less overall government
Less spending
Conservative foreign policy

Bush stood for:
Less taxes for the wealthy, more on the middle class
More government with his regulation policies
More government spending on military
Aggressive foreign policy

[Treznor]

Correct. Bush was not a conservative.

The hell he wasn't. He was everything the conservative movement stands for. Which, ironically enough, is very much the opposite of what it PRETENDS to stand for. However actions speak louder than words, and every single so called "conservative", and everyone backed by so called "conservatives", once they get a modicrum of power, lose all pretense of any kind of restraint, and reveal themselves to be exactly what they are.

And, of course, once their policies of the TRUE hallmarks of the "conservative" movement in American politics, become apparent, and their ass gets kicked out of office. Once that happens, the rest of the so called conservatives who supported him so wholeheartedly, knash their teeth, wail and moan about how this poor fool "abandoned conservative ideologies", and how they need to do things like "get back to their roots" and "fix the party".

In other words, it's a pure political hackery, a poor excuse of "gee, well you can't blame US for his poor policies, he wasn't a REAL conservative, but next time if you vote for a REAL conservative this won't happen!"

Until the next "real" conservative gets into office, and the cycle repeats, making it clear the only real conservative ideology is massive spending without regard for economic health, rampant moralizing of politics, and pandering to the religious right.

Haha funny guy, eh? You are a moron, dude! Please get your facts straight. Bush was not what the Conservatives stand for. Let me reiterate the point so inmature people like you are "informed"

Conservatives stand for:

Less taxes on everyone
Less overall government
Less spending
Conservative foreign policy

Bush stood for:
Less taxes for the wealthy, more on the middle class
More government with his regulation policies
More government spending on military
Aggressive foreign policy

And yet, every conservative who has been elected into office has stood for:

Less taxes on the rich
More overall government
More spending
Aggressive foreign policy

Reagan stood for:
Less taxes on the wealthy, more burden on the middle class
Less government with some policies, more government with others
More government spending on military
Aggressive foreign policy

Bush was hailed as Reagan's intellectual heir for six years, until the flaws in his ideology were exposed. Conservatives haven't failed conservatism. Conservatism has failed conservatives. These are the people you voted into office, and re-elected every time. You have only yourselves to blame.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

You know that taxing the rich just gives them the incentive to move to where things are less expensive and they can buy what they want in other countries?

Who the heck are you going to tax for your national health care /socialized medicine if the rich emigrate and don't have to pay for your health care?

If they do, revoke their citizenship. *nod*

[Opola]

To tell you the truth, I can not change a leftists mind. We shall disagree forever, but it was nice having a good argument.

[Opola]

You know that taxing the rich just gives them the incentive to move to where things are less expensive and they can buy what they want in other countries?

Who the heck are you going to tax for your national health care /socialized medicine if the rich emigrate and don't have to pay for your health care?

If they do, revoke their citizenship. *nod*

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

[Fartsniffage]

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

Why hasn't this happened to all the other countries with nationalised healthcare?

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Correct. Bush was not a conservative.

The hell he wasn't. He was everything the conservative movement stands for. Which, ironically enough, is very much the opposite of what it PRETENDS to stand for. However actions speak louder than words, and every single so called "conservative", and everyone backed by so called "conservatives", once they get a modicrum of power, lose all pretense of any kind of restraint, and reveal themselves to be exactly what they are.

And, of course, once their policies of the TRUE hallmarks of the "conservative" movement in American politics, become apparent, and their ass gets kicked out of office. Once that happens, the rest of the so called conservatives who supported him so wholeheartedly, knash their teeth, wail and moan about how this poor fool "abandoned conservative ideologies", and how they need to do things like "get back to their roots" and "fix the party".

In other words, it's a pure political hackery, a poor excuse of "gee, well you can't blame US for his poor policies, he wasn't a REAL conservative, but next time if you vote for a REAL conservative this won't happen!"

Until the next "real" conservative gets into office, and the cycle repeats, making it clear the only real conservative ideology is massive spending without regard for economic health, rampant moralizing of politics, and pandering to the religious right.

Haha funny guy, eh? You are a moron, dude! Please get your facts straight. Bush was not what the Conservatives stand for. Let me reiterate the point so inmature people like you are "informed"

Conservatives stand for:

Less taxes on everyone
Less overall government
Less spending
Conservative foreign policy

Bush stood for:
Less taxes for the wealthy, more on the middle class
More government with his regulation policies
More government spending on military
Aggressive foreign policy

So between 2001 and 2006, what was Congress' excuse?

[Treznor]

You know that taxing the rich just gives them the incentive to move to where things are less expensive and they can buy what they want in other countries?

Who the heck are you going to tax for your national health care /socialized medicine if the rich emigrate and don't have to pay for your health care?

If they do, revoke their citizenship. *nod*

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

But...they've already left because of evil taxes. At which point, why do we care about what they think?

[Lunatic Goofballs]

You know that taxing the rich just gives them the incentive to move to where things are less expensive and they can buy what they want in other countries?

Who the heck are you going to tax for your national health care /socialized medicine if the rich emigrate and don't have to pay for your health care?

If they do, revoke their citizenship. *nod*

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

Where the fuck will they go?

[Treznor]

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

Where the fuck will they go?

I understand Somalia has an acceptable tax rate for rich people. *nods*

[Opola]

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

Why hasn't this happened to all the other countries with nationalised healthcare?

As an American and Libertarian I truthfully believe that everyone in the US poor and rich is greedy they do not want to give up anything so the poor are always complaining that they do not have $ and the rich are complaining there money is getting taken away.

[Opola]

Monaco, no taxes.

[Fartsniffage]

As an American and Libertarian I truthfully believe that everyone in the US poor and rich is greedy they do not want to give up anything so the poor are always complaining that they do not have $ and the rich are complaining there money is getting taken away.

People are greedy the world over, I ask again "Why hasn't this happened to all the other countries with nationalised healthcare?".

[Opola]

Becuase fucking Europeans know how to run a government.

[Fartsniffage]

Becuase fucking Europeans know how to run a government.

Canada and Japan are part of Europe now?

[Treznor]

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

Why hasn't this happened to all the other countries with nationalised healthcare?

As an American and Libertarian I truthfully believe that everyone in the US poor and rich is greedy they do not want to give up anything so the poor are always complaining that they do not have $ and the rich are complaining there money is getting taken away.

Ah. So, we just need to follow the Rules of Acquisition religiously, and everything will work out the way it should. The poor will stay poor and die early, the rich will get richer and live glorious lives, and the middle class will absorbed into the ranks of the poor. As it should be.

[Muravyets]

Then they will leave. The whole country will fall apart because the "evil" rich left. Well those evil rich people who are only 10% of the population pay half of the United States taxes and I think that everyone will be begging the rich people to come back.

Where the fuck will they go?

Who cares?

Becuase fucking Europeans know how to run a government.

Oh, so then, in fact, nationalized health care is not a bad thing after all.

[Opola]

No universal healthcare in the US.