NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[Gallia-]

they are thematically and aesthetically compatible there are no issues

you could always go full sdf and just let them walk out tho

Cadet Officers have their own union. Specialist officers have their own union. Career NCOs have their own union. Reserve officers have their own union. Reservists as whole have their own union. Conscripts have their own union.
Clearly we went wrong somewhere.

How would such a union protest unfavourable labour contracts or working conditions? It would have to be legally or voluntarily abstained from both industrial action and joining union federations to prevent any undue risk of the chain of command being violated or conflict of interests with outside groups, which is what most European armies do anyway iirc?

At that point, the principal methods of the union's ability to pressure its employers are now gone, and it merely serves as a forum for bringing collective grievances to the attention of the leadership. Operational readiness requirements and morale serve as similar forums, and it is in the best interest of a Western military to foster good enlisted-officer relationships regardless, so the unions seem to be a bit superfluous on the matter of addressing living and working conditions tbh, and even calling them "unions" is somewhat disingenuous at that point.

[Immoren]

Cadet Officers have their own union. Specialist officers have their own union. Career NCOs have their own union. Reserve officers have their own union. Reservists as whole have their own union. Conscripts have their own union.
Clearly we went wrong somewhere.

How would such a union protest unfavourable labour contracts or working conditions? It would have to be legally or voluntarily abstained from both industrial action and joining union federations to prevent any undue risk of the chain of command being violated or conflict of interests with outside groups, which is what most European armies do anyway iirc?

At that point, the principal methods of the union's ability to pressure its employers are now gone, and it merely serves as a forum for bringing collective grievances to the attention of the leadership. Operational readiness requirements and morale serve as similar forums, and it is in the best interest of a Western military to foster good enlisted-officer relationships regardless, so the unions seem to be a bit superfluous on the matter of addressing living and working conditions tbh, and even calling them "unions" is somewhat disingenuous at that point.

Yes.

[Husseinarti]

Just have all your commanding officers and NCOIC have an open door policy.

[Gallia-]

How would such a union protest unfavourable labour contracts or working conditions? It would have to be legally or voluntarily abstained from both industrial action and joining union federations to prevent any undue risk of the chain of command being violated or conflict of interests with outside groups, which is what most European armies do anyway iirc?

At that point, the principal methods of the union's ability to pressure its employers are now gone, and it merely serves as a forum for bringing collective grievances to the attention of the leadership. Operational readiness requirements and morale serve as similar forums, and it is in the best interest of a Western military to foster good enlisted-officer relationships regardless, so the unions seem to be a bit superfluous on the matter of addressing living and working conditions tbh, and even calling them "unions" is somewhat disingenuous at that point.

Yes.

Good response, this has been very informative on why military associations are better than traditional chain of command systems!

Guess this explains why III US Corps and I British Corps were only the best formations in NORTHAG by the end of the Cold War!

[Kazarogkai]

Cadet Officers have their own union. Specialist officers have their own union. Career NCOs have their own union. Reserve officers have their own union. Reservists as whole have their own union. Conscripts have their own union.
Clearly we went wrong somewhere.

How would such a union protest unfavourable labour contracts or working conditions? It would have to be legally or voluntarily abstained from both industrial action and joining union federations to prevent any undue risk of the chain of command being violated or conflict of interests with outside groups, which is what most European armies do anyway iirc?

At that point, the principal methods of the union's ability to pressure its employers are now gone, and it merely serves as a forum for bringing collective grievances to the attention of the leadership. Operational readiness requirements and morale serve as similar forums, and it is in the best interest of a Western military to foster good enlisted-officer relationships regardless, so the unions seem to be a bit superfluous on the matter of addressing living and working conditions tbh, and even calling them "unions" is somewhat disingenuous at that point.

Would having military personnel be specifically represented in the legislature of the nation be worthwhile in that case. Specifically in my nation the National Senate that functions as my nations government is composed of 3 Chambers. The one known as the Low Chamber Functions as a deliberative body that has legislative initiate. They represent the various recognized Corporate groups(agriculture, teachers, parents, etc) known as Guilds and are elected from among their membership. Theoretically one of these corporate groups represented could be used to represent military personnel theoretically though since they are already more or less represented in government it seems irrelevant in my case.

[Questers]

German not being my first language (and my command is extremely rudimentary at best), I opted to use Anglo-American military designations for my "German" units.

Sorry, this is lazy. I understand if its spome obscure language, but German formations are one of the, if not the, easiest to find nomenclature for.

[Chinese Peoples]

German not being my first language (and my command is extremely rudimentary at best), I opted to use Anglo-American military designations for my "German" units.

Sorry, this is lazy. I understand if its spome obscure language, but German formations are one of the, if not the, easiest to find nomenclature for.

Not if you don't understand German in the first place (like me).

[EsToVnIa]

there's hundreds of examples irl that you can use as a guide tho

[Questers]

Sorry, this is lazy. I understand if its spome obscure language, but German formations are one of the, if not the, easiest to find nomenclature for.

Not if you don't understand German in the first place (like me).

????

I wonder what these words could mean.

Kompanie
Bataillon
Regiment
Brigade
Division



Panzer? Well, we all know that. Could it be that Kpz means Kampfpanzer, a German language equivalent of MBT? While I've never studied German formally in my life, I am sure that 'Artillerie' has a similar meaning to English.

Tbh, I understand the point, but it takes a very short amount of time to learn military nomenclature in another language, ESPECIALLY one that has hundreds of TOEs published and explained in their language. It strongly suggests that the person involved is not interested in the detail of their military.

[The Akasha Colony]

Not if you don't understand German in the first place (like me).

????

I wonder what these words could mean.

Kompanie
Bataillon
Regiment
Brigade
Division



Panzer? Well, we all know that. Could it be that Kpz means Kampfpanzer, a German language equivalent of MBT? While I've never studied German formally in my life, I am sure that 'Artillerie' has a similar meaning to English.

Tbh, I understand the point, but it takes a very short amount of time to learn military nomenclature in another language, ESPECIALLY one that has hundreds of TOEs published and explained in their language. It strongly suggests that the person involved is not interested in the detail of their military.

That feel when you can't into Punic.

(Yes it's similar to Hebrew so w/e.)

[Mitheldalond]

How effective would fighters be at shooting down cruise missiles with AAMs? With the M61 Vulcan?

[The Greater Aryan Race]

German not being my first language (and my command is extremely rudimentary at best), I opted to use Anglo-American military designations for my "German" units.

Sorry, this is lazy. I understand if its spome obscure language, but German formations are one of the, if not the, easiest to find nomenclature for.

Ideally, I would love to transcribe everything in German, from the ranks in my military to every single divisional and squadron TOE but hey, it's not like I have RL commitments like mandatory military service where I can barely find the time to make the extensive modifications where necessary to achieve that sort of professional-looking military factbook. But point taken, I intend to overhaul my factbook again once I have a clear idea of what needs to be edited and changed.

[Inyourfaceistan]

How effective would fighters be at shooting down cruise missiles with AAMs? With the M61 Vulcan?

I would think/hope they could hit it with an IR AAM...

The bigger question is could they engage an AShM from the rear?

[Mitheldalond]

How effective would fighters be at shooting down cruise missiles with AAMs? With the M61 Vulcan?

I would think/hope they could hit it with an IR AAM...

The bigger question is could they engage an AShM from the rear?

Well, they're anti-ship Tomahawks, so that actually kind of is the question.

[Questers]

Sorry, this is lazy. I understand if its spome obscure language, but German formations are one of the, if not the, easiest to find nomenclature for.

Ideally, I would love to transcribe everything in German, from the ranks in my military to every single divisional and squadron TOE but hey, it's not like I have RL commitments like mandatory military service where I can barely find the time to make the extensive modifications where necessary to achieve that sort of professional-looking military factbook. But point taken, I intend to overhaul my factbook again once I have a clear idea of what needs to be edited and changed.

You have three basic options. The Imperial German Army, the German Army of WWII, and the German Army of 1945-today. You also can look at the East German Army also. Sometimes they are the same -- they all use Panzers, and Panzergrenadier (from WW2 onwards) for the same thing. But they did change some unit designation names. For instance from WW1-WW2 and in the East German Army, signals troops were Nachrichtentruppe, but in the Army of Federal Germany they were Fernmeldetruppe. You can simply copy them from existing TOEs, or ask for help in this thread. I think we have at least two German speakers who could help.

[Chinese Peoples]

Not if you don't understand German in the first place (like me).

????

I wonder what these words could mean.

Kompanie
Bataillon
Regiment
Brigade
Division



Panzer? Well, we all know that. Could it be that Kpz means Kampfpanzer, a German language equivalent of MBT? While I've never studied German formally in my life, I am sure that 'Artillerie' has a similar meaning to English.

Tbh, I understand the point, but it takes a very short amount of time to learn military nomenclature in another language, ESPECIALLY one that has hundreds of TOEs published and explained in their language. It strongly suggests that the person involved is not interested in the detail of their military.

Yes, but when you get pass the Autobahns and the Volkswagens and read the Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz...

And, German has tonnes of false friends for the English speaker. To take an example, for 9/10 of my life I have always thought Panzer was the German term for this:

[Questers]

????

I wonder what these words could mean.

Kompanie
Bataillon
Regiment
Brigade
Division



Panzer? Well, we all know that. Could it be that Kpz means Kampfpanzer, a German language equivalent of MBT? While I've never studied German formally in my life, I am sure that 'Artillerie' has a similar meaning to English.

Tbh, I understand the point, but it takes a very short amount of time to learn military nomenclature in another language, ESPECIALLY one that has hundreds of TOEs published and explained in their language. It strongly suggests that the person involved is not interested in the detail of their military.

Yes, but when you get pass the Autobahns and the Volkswagens and read the Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz...

And, German has tonnes of false friends for the English speaker. To take an example, for 9/10 of my life I have always thought Panzer was the German term for this:

I would not call Panzer a false friend, although there are a lot of false friends -- and a lot of similarities, too. Germanic languages

[Zaereas]

Yes, but when you get pass the Autobahns and the Volkswagens and read the Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz...

And, German has tonnes of false friends for the English speaker. To take an example, for 9/10 of my life I have always thought Panzer was the German term for this:

I would not call Panzer a false friend, although there are a lot of false friends -- and a lot of similarities, too. Germanic languages

German is a fantastic language to learn, if only for the relative simplicity of it and the ridiculously large compound words.

[Themiclesia]

I would not call Panzer a false friend, although there are a lot of false friends -- and a lot of similarities, too. Germanic languages

German is a fantastic language to learn, if only for the relative simplicity of it and the ridiculously large compound words.

I'm sorry? German is simple? $100 say that Sanskrit is a simpler language than German.

[Velkanika]

German is a fantastic language to learn, if only for the relative simplicity of it and the ridiculously large compound words.

I'm sorry? German is simple? $100 say that Sanskrit is a simpler language than German.

Simple if you already speak a Germanic language like English.

[Themiclesia]

I'm sorry? German is simple? $100 say that Sanskrit is a simpler language than German.

Simple if you already speak a Germanic language like English.

English is by no means similar to German. The High German Consonantal Shift destroyed what semblance that may have existed between them.

[Kazarogkai]

Simple if you already speak a Germanic language like English.

English is by no means similar to German. The High German Consonantal Shift destroyed what semblance that may have existed between them.

That's not counting the Norman invasions which changed the English language quite a bit. Old English and Old German are pretty similar to one another never the less.

[Zaereas]

Simple if you already speak a Germanic language like English.

English is by no means similar to German. The High German Consonantal Shift destroyed what semblance that may have existed between them.

Trust me, it's similar. I've been learning for 2 years now, and even when I started you could understand simple sentences without speaking a single word of it.

"Das ist nicht gut mein Freund!"
Anyone who fluently speaks English could tell what this means, roughly.

And as to the Consonantal Shift, it was only a phonological development. It didn't radically change the language.

[Edrar (Ancient)]

Hello everyone, I am brand new to Nationstates and am working on the general concept for my nation (Small Island in the north Atlantic, Federal Republic, small population of 35 million maybe?, etc.) My question is, I want to have a small rapid style military made to act like a scalpel rather than a hammer. What would be the way to go about it? Of course I want to have a huge emphasis on training and leader selection but I am just wondering what type of approach I should take.

I know already that I must have an efficient and capable Air Force and Navy. How would that be set up and what type of equipment should I use? Further more, what about my Army, should I focus on smaller rapid response units and air assault or a more British approach with heavy tanks and mechanized forces? I would prefer Real World technology and preferably NATO based systems.

I want any and all suggestions available and if it takes up too much space in the forum or we decide to have a side discussion I am fine with Telegrams as well. Though to be perfectly honest I have had to empty my Telegram box twice already from all of the region request letters.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

[Zaereas]

Hello everyone, I am brand new to Nationstates and am working on the general concept for my nation (Small Island in the north Atlantic, Federal Republic, small population of 35 million maybe?, etc.) My question is, I want to have a small rapid style military made to act like a scalpel rather than a hammer. What would be the way to go about it? Of course I want to have a huge emphasis on training and leader selection but I am just wondering what type of approach I should take.

I know already that I must have an efficient and capable Air Force and Navy. How would that be set up and what type of equipment should I use? Further more, what about my Army, should I focus on smaller rapid response units and air assault or a more British approach with heavy tanks and mechanized forces? I would prefer Real World technology and preferably NATO based systems.

I want any and all suggestions available and if it takes up too much space in the forum or we decide to have a side discussion I am fine with Telegrams as well. Though to be perfectly honest I have had to empty my Telegram box twice already from all of the region request letters.

Thank you for your time and assistance.

You can filter out those region requests. Go to Telegrams and Preferences, and filter 'em out. Also, I'd gladly help you with any concerns. Send me a TG and I'll discuss some stuff with you.