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New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

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Grave_n_idle
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:41 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:Also - I already pointed it out once, if you're not going to honestly report what I post, don't include me in your sig.

I am honestly reporting what you said, GnI.


I've told you you are not, and I'm asking you to remove your flamebait sig for a second time now.
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Ashmoria
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ashmoria » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:41 pm

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Maybe people are more willing to tolerate a waiting list than be kicked to the curb.

all i know is that it needs to be fixed. sure its worrisome that the govt is going to decide various things based on politics, that lobbyists are far too powerful in this fight, that bureaucrats make more money by hiring more people to work under them. but IT NEEDS FIXED and keeping the status quo is a recipe for disaster.
whatever

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Muravyets
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:41 pm

The most laughable thing about that "you have to wait for care under NHS" argument is that Americans already have to wait for non-emergency care under our private system, because we are restricted as to which doctors we can see by our insurers. So we have to wait for our approved physician to be available.

And the argument "NHS = rationed health care with the government deciding who gets what" -- health care in the US is already rationed, only it's private insurance companies deciding who gets what, and without the public accountability of government.

And as to that BS about the supposed dangers of NHS, I expect someone to post statistics on how many Canadians and other nations' citizens die of treatable conditions annually because of their national systems.
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Farnhamia
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:41 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Do, CM, I'd be interested to see. And the quoted bit in Ostronopolis' post said that "In Sweden, the wait for heart surgery can be as long as 25 weeks," and "the average wait for hip replacement surgery is more than a year." Weasel statements, I think. Hip replacement is not the same a broken hip and I venture to say that certain kinds of heart surgery might be deferable. As for the cancellation of 50,000 British operations a year, nothing is said about what kinds of operations. A face-lift is an operation, after all, and in all but the most extreme cases is hardly a life-saving procedure.

In severe cases, hip replacement may be needed with a hip fracture.

I'm still looking for the USA waiting time, and I still can't find it. I'll keep looking.

Come on, CM, don't be disingenuous. That's not what I meant at all.
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Chrobalta
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Chrobalta » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:41 pm

Farnhamia wrote:Well, from your end of the stick, yes. The hospital rang up $600 an hour on theirs.

And hey, we all know that the US government couldn't run a national health care system to save its life. Give it two, three years and people will be lined up outside the insurance companies' offices begging to sign up, offering their children as premiums.

The goal of health care should not be profit driven. It should be to provide the best care. Currently, the private insurers prevent ~50 million from getting care and millions more without adequate care. The waiting time lengths are over exaggerated by the right wingers trying to scare people.

I personally would rather choose the government plan than having an insurance company try to work against my health needs. People pay private insurers so they can make excuses and hide behind the fine print. When you call them for help, they actively work against you and look for ways to deny your claim.
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Maurepas
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Maurepas » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:42 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Maybe people are more willing to tolerate a waiting list than be kicked to the curb.

all i know is that it needs to be fixed. sure its worrisome that the govt is going to decide various things based on politics, that lobbyists are far too powerful in this fight, that bureaucrats make more money by hiring more people to work under them. but IT NEEDS FIXED and keeping the status quo is a recipe for disaster.

But, at least it wont be a Commie disaster! :roll:

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The Cat-Tribe
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby The Cat-Tribe » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:43 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:Here's the latest on the U.S. Democratic Party's efforts to take away liberties and choices from it's citizens and get rid of the health insurance companies.

Investor's business Daily put out an editorial on 15 July 09.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
According to page 16 of the House Healt Care Reform Bill, after the date that this travesty is signed into law, the Insurance companies will no longer be allowed to sign up new health care insurance policies. This applies to people who have never had private insurance and people who want to change insurance carriers.

Can you say, "another step toward communism", Mr. and Mrs. America?


Explain to me how you get (or the authors of the editorial you cite) get that conclusion from a provision (taken out of context, but regardless) that says:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day"
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Conserative Morality
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:44 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:I've told you you are not, and I'm asking you to remove your flamebait sig for a second time now.

Take it to the mods then. If they say so, I'll remove it.
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Ashmoria
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ashmoria » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:44 pm

Maurepas wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:
Maybe people are more willing to tolerate a waiting list than be kicked to the curb.

all i know is that it needs to be fixed. sure its worrisome that the govt is going to decide various things based on politics, that lobbyists are far too powerful in this fight, that bureaucrats make more money by hiring more people to work under them. but IT NEEDS FIXED and keeping the status quo is a recipe for disaster.

But, at least it wont be a Commie disaster! :roll:

*phew*

the commie thing doesnt seem to be scaring as many people as it used to. i guess dying from lack of care is more scary today than communism.
whatever

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Muravyets
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:46 pm

The Cat-Tribe wrote:Explain to me how you get (or the authors of the editorial you cite) get that conclusion from a provision (taken out of context, but regardless) that says:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day"

Try reading it on hallucinogens, perhaps?
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Ashmoria
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ashmoria » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:47 pm

Muravyets wrote:
The Cat-Tribe wrote:Explain to me how you get (or the authors of the editorial you cite) get that conclusion from a provision (taken out of context, but regardless) that says:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day"

Try reading it on hallucinogens, perhaps?

its right there in black and white (you cant change the colors here, can you?) "DOES NOT ENROLL ANY INDIVIDUAL IN SUCH COVERAGE"

what else could it POSSIBLY mean?
whatever

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Muravyets
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:50 pm

Ashmoria wrote:its right there in black and white (you cant change the colors here, can you?) "DOES NOT ENROLL ANY INDIVIDUAL IN SUCH COVERAGE"

what else could it POSSIBLY mean?

You think you're kidding, but I have this vision in my head of Y-G-O's source staring at that paragraph, slowly blinking, for about 10 minutes and then yelling something akin to "A witch! Burn her!!"
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Hydesland
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Hydesland » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:51 pm

This thread has really angered me. I don't think anybody knows shit, everyone just makes cliché arguments or just obnoxious crap, on both sides. Does anybody know what communism actually is?

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Surote
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Surote » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:51 pm

You-Gi-Owe wrote:Here's the latest on the U.S. Democratic Party's efforts to take away liberties and choices from it's citizens and get rid of the health insurance companies.

Investor's business Daily put out an editorial on 15 July 09.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
According to page 16 of the House Healt Care Reform Bill, after the date that this travesty is signed into law, the Insurance companies will no longer be allowed to sign up new health care insurance policies. This applies to people who have never had private insurance and people who want to change insurance carriers.

Can you say, "another step toward communism", Mr. and Mrs. America?


Fine let the lower class people die cause of the private companies not caring about them and only themselfs but it's your way of thinking
Last edited by Surote on Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ostronopolis
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ostronopolis » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:52 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Ostronopolis wrote:
Treznor wrote:Hmm...isn't that the objection most Americans have with insurance companies these days? Shall we once again go back to the example set by other nations who are not having these problems? Shall we look at the VA hospital system which is a current example of socialised medicine in the US?

Socialism will not kill America. If anything, the rest of the industrialized world demonstrates that socialism will make America stronger. Stop buying the GOP bullshit and start studying the issue for yourself.


Actually, I am a GOP, so I'm in support of that 'bullshit' that has more relevance than the liberals would like to let on. Socialism would kill America, like it has killed every other country, or do I have to remind you of;

The Soviet Union, Mongolia, China (already turning away from socialism), East Germany....... etc


Most of Europe is socialist. They don't appear to be dead.




Oh.. who to believe? The random internet nobody with an agenda... or the entire continent of Europe as material evidence?


Hm, failed attempt at insult. I love it. You'd be surprised how many of those you get being a Conservative :P

Also, I don't consider Europe a socialist continent, a liberal hell hole, but socialist no.
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Muravyets
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:52 pm

Ashmoria wrote:*phew*

the commie thing doesnt seem to be scaring as many people as it used to. i guess dying from lack of care is more scary today than communism.

I'm not too proud to state right now and for the record that I will take any system that will give me access to reliable health care when I need it for less than the $260+/month I am paying now (a significant reduction from what I was paying a few months ago) plus deductibles and non-covered expenses, and I don't care if the plan booklet actually comes in a red cover with a gold star on it.
Last edited by Muravyets on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ashmoria » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:53 pm

Hydesland wrote:This thread has really angered me. I don't think anybody knows shit, everyone just makes cliché arguments or just obnoxious crap, on both sides. Does anybody know what communism actually is?

well, no.

for most of the americans on this forum the big boys of communism fell before they were born. all WE know is that communism is bad bad bad.

luckily the thread isnt about communism.
whatever

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Ostronopolis
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ostronopolis » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:53 pm

Hydesland wrote:This thread has really angered me. I don't think anybody knows shit, everyone just makes cliché arguments or just obnoxious crap, on both sides. Does anybody know what communism actually is?


Not most people, and I agree. That's why after the third page of 'youz wrong Iz writz!' I gave up posting in the thread much.
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Conserative Morality
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:55 pm

Hydesland wrote:This thread has really angered me. I don't think anybody knows shit, everyone just makes cliché arguments or just obnoxious crap, on both sides. Does anybody know what communism actually is?

Depends. Are we going on Marxism-Leninism?
Last edited by Conserative Morality on Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Ashmoria » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:56 pm

Muravyets wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:*phew*

the commie thing doesnt seem to be scaring as many people as it used to. i guess dying from lack of care is more scary today than communism.

I'm not too proud to state right now and for the record that I will take any system that will give me access to reliable health care when I need it for less than the $260+/month I am paying now (a significant reduction from what I was paying a few months ago) plus deductibles and non-covered expenses, and I don't care if the plan booklet actually comes in a red cover with a gold star on it.

i just want that i dont have to worry about being thrown off of insurance if i should get a serious illness. im sick of the denial of service business model that the insurance companies follow. if that means socialism, then bring it on.
whatever

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Muravyets
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:57 pm

Ostronopolis wrote:
Hm, failed attempt at insult. I love it. You'd be surprised how many of those you get being a Conservative :P

Also, I don't consider Europe a socialist continent, a liberal hell hole, but socialist no.

I wouldn't be surprised at all -- especially if you're a conservative so incapable of supporting your own position that you cannot even present it without scaffolding it 'round with logical fallacies. Latest example, above: No True Scotsman, in which you attempt to dismiss evidence against you by claiming that said evidence doesn't fall within your claimed sample group. You don't get to define "socialism" narrowly just so it will fit your argument. The nations named all implement socialist systems, especially in regards to health care, and none of them has been or is being destroyed by it. Your claim falls flat.
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Grave_n_idle
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:57 pm

Ostronopolis wrote:Hm, failed attempt at insult. I love it. You'd be surprised how many of those you get being a Conservative :P

Also, I don't consider Europe a socialist continent, a liberal hell hole, but socialist no.


It's not an attempt at an insult. I have no idea who you are. You could be Rush Limbaugh, or you could be some kid posting in between lessons - it doesn't matter. On the internet, everyone is everything, and thus, everyone is nothing.

You've stated your agenda. Saying you have an agenda is not an insult, either.
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EvilDarkMagicians
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:57 pm

Don't want to get banned for trolling so removed my post.
Last edited by EvilDarkMagicians on Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grave_n_idle
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Grave_n_idle » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:59 pm

Ostronopolis wrote:
Hydesland wrote:This thread has really angered me. I don't think anybody knows shit, everyone just makes cliché arguments or just obnoxious crap, on both sides. Does anybody know what communism actually is?


Not most people, and I agree. That's why after the third page of 'youz wrong Iz writz!' I gave up posting in the thread much.


...I thought it was because your evidence was shown to not say what you claimed, and all your arguments were shown to be toothless?
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Muravyets
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Re: New U.S. Healthcare Reform, No New Business for Insurance Co

Postby Muravyets » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:59 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
Muravyets wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:*phew*

the commie thing doesnt seem to be scaring as many people as it used to. i guess dying from lack of care is more scary today than communism.

I'm not too proud to state right now and for the record that I will take any system that will give me access to reliable health care when I need it for less than the $260+/month I am paying now (a significant reduction from what I was paying a few months ago) plus deductibles and non-covered expenses, and I don't care if the plan booklet actually comes in a red cover with a gold star on it.

i just want that i dont have to worry about being thrown off of insurance if i should get a serious illness. im sick of the denial of service business model that the insurance companies follow. if that means socialism, then bring it on.

Yeah, that, too. As far as I'm concerned, the private insurance system we have in the US is nothing more nor less than state-supported extortion and robbery. I despise the entire filthy racket.
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However, I am still not the topic of this thread.

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