Traditional gender roles

[Dumb Ideologies]

I don't want to be burning alive whilst a woman firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door

You can't be certain that you wouldn't enjoy it. We should probably test just to be sure.

[Bottle]

Aww, but being able to expound on sexual reproduction in excruciatingly squishy detail is like 60% of why I got my degree in the first place.

That's gotta come in handy when there's a conversational lull at dinner.

Not going to lie, I have definitely sketched the clitoral crura on a napkin once or twice.

[Benuty]

I don't want to be burning alive whilst a woman firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door

You can't be certain that you wouldn't enjoy it. We should probably test just to be sure.

*Insert mandatory apply water to burn meme here*.

[Wallenburg]

I don't want to be burning alive whilst a woman firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door

But burning alive whilst a male firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door is perfectly okay with you, right?

EDIT: Sorry for the ninja, Bottle. BTW, I think your penis lock mechanism is comedy gold.

[Bottle]

I don't want to be burning alive whilst a woman firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door

But burning alive whilst a male firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door is perfectly okay with you, right?

What, the doors in your home don't use a penis-based locking system? Get with the times.

[Benuty]

But burning alive whilst a male firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door is perfectly okay with you, right?

What, the doors in your home don't use a penis-based locking system? Get with the times.

Are you suggesting they are a cheap bimbo?

Because any reasonable person would restrict it to the genitalia of someone (or people) they are dating, married to, or having an affair with. Otherwise it would be incredibly easy to be robbed...of pretty much anything.

[Dumb Ideologies]

But burning alive whilst a male firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door is perfectly okay with you, right?

What, the doors in your home don't use a penis-based locking system? Get with the times.

...says the rigidly second-wave feminist. Let's party like it's 1969.

[Benuty]

What, the doors in your home don't use a penis-based locking system? Get with the times.

...says the rigidly second-wave feminist. Let's party like it's 1969.

We need a trash can on fire, and some sheep though first.

[Baltischen Union]

I don't want to be burning alive whilst a woman firefighter is struggling to open a stiff blocked door

Ah summer, the time where the heat gets to everyone's brains, and messes with their ability for reasonable debate.

Seriously how is this even an argument with relevance at all?

Lets be honest, are they actually strong as men ?
It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not.
Even if women exercise regularly it's difficult for them to grow muscles as strong as men's.

I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

[Wallenburg]

Ah summer, the time where the heat gets to everyone's brains, and messes with their ability for reasonable debate.

Seriously how is this even an argument with relevance at all?

Lets be honest, are they actually strong as men ?
It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not.
Even if women exercise regularly it's difficult for them to grow muscles as strong as men's.

I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

This is sexism 101.

[The Qeiiam Galaxy]

Ah summer, the time where the heat gets to everyone's brains, and messes with their ability for reasonable debate.

Seriously how is this even an argument with relevance at all?

Lets be honest, are they actually strong as men ?
It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not.
Even if women exercise regularly it's difficult for them to grow muscles as strong as men's.

I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

Wait, science and religious education is the same class in your school?

[Iberonia]

I don't support the complete loss of gender roles, but I do think there is some room for flexibility. I believe that most families work well under the "traditional" mold, so long as the female partner has room to develop interests and hobbies that aren't in the realm of housemaking. Spouses who engage in critical thinking and pursue a healthy engagement of reading/learning become infinitely better caretakers than those that leave themselves to handle things "naturally". I'm not advocating for everyone to get a college degree, because frankly the vast majority aren't fit to get one (unless you insist on watering down the content/difficulty of attaining one, which has already happened). Educated couples are a fantastic resource for a child, but even homely and simple people with a little bit of reading can do good for their kids. Literacy exists for a reason besides daily routines, and that is to comprehend and appreciate written material that transmits knowledge. I always was jealous of people whose parents were doctors, engineers and scientists. So much knowledge available, so much time to develop ideas earlier than your peers. I grew up with parents that peaked at high school and never went on to college; my father took on tile installation while my mother acts as a homemaker (with poor delusions of becoming wealthier by selling perfumes she bottles in the house). Both could not go higher for different reasons that are irrelevant to the argument. That being said, traditional gender roles are excellent for keeping stability in households where neither parent is particularly interested in academic subjects. For those who have parents that are well-educated and respected professionals in their field, gender roles become less important when either parent is able to live independently of the other (if need be) financially. The relationship becomes defined by the shared interests and hobbies of the two, at least until children come into the picture, but the trend returns when the kids go off to college to start their own lives.

TLDR: Working class and lower middle income families work best in the traditional system, as the woman can dedicate herself to handling the kids while the father supports them financially. In educated middle class and upper class families, the two parents are greater enabled by the freedom to develop their relationship through hobbies and interests, as both are financially independent (before childbirth and after their kids graduate and being adulthood in full).

[Dumb Ideologies]

Lets be honest, are they actually strong as men ?
It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not.
Even if women exercise regularly it's difficult for them to grow muscles as strong as men's.

I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

Wait, science and religious education is the same class in your school?

It's not so much "education" in the traditional sense as the younglings sitting around a fire while some of the drunk and heavily sedated elders tell stories about life before The Event.

[Hurdegaryp]

Wait, science and religious education is the same class in your school?

It's not so much "education" in the traditional sense as the younglings sitting around a fire while some of the drunk and heavily sedated elders tell stories about life before The Event.

That reminds me that I still need to see the new Mad Max movie.

[Bottle]

It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not...I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

Oh honey, no. Women have testosterone.

[Solaray]

Meh, follow em if you want, don't follow em if you don't. Just don't pressure others to follow or not follow them based on personal views.

[Tahar Joblis]

Lets be honest, are they actually strong as men ?
It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not.
Even if women exercise regularly it's difficult for them to grow muscles as strong as men's.

I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

This is sexism 101.

I'm looking at this exchange, and I can't tell which is worse: Someone making an argument about men and women by appealing ambiguously to what are probably a middle school science class and then a middle school religious version of a sex ed class (but could be a combined science, religion, and sex ed class from that description), or someone making an argument about men and women by appealing to pictures of specific people.

Neither one of those arguments should be particularly convincing to anyone here. Would the two of you mind stepping back and trying again, only with some better arguments?

[Hurdegaryp]

It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not...I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

Oh honey, no. Women have testosterone.

And here is a shocker: men have estrogen.

[Wallenburg]

This is sexism 101.

I'm looking at this exchange, and I can't tell which is worse: Someone making an argument about men and women by appealing ambiguously to what are probably a middle school science class and then a middle school religious version of a sex ed class (but could be a combined science, religion, and sex ed class from that description), or someone making an argument about men and women by appealing to pictures of specific people.

Neither one of those arguments should be particularly convincing to anyone here. Would the two of you mind stepping back and trying again, only with some better arguments?

I'm not trying to say that women are more athletic than men, I'm just trying to point out that the sexist stereotype of men being more athletic than women is false. Women can be strong or weak, men can be strong or weak. The minor differences in natural body type between sexes are narrowing as standards of living increment.

[Bottle]

Oh honey, no. Women have testosterone.

And here is a shocker: men have estrogen.

Let's keep the shockers coming:

Testosterone =/= "strength."

Yes, testosterone does things like help build muscle fibers more rapidly and encourage bone growth, which often translates to more height. But it also (for example) weakens the immune system and increases sensitivity to psychological stress.

I know that most people use "strength" to refer to an individual's ability to pick up a heavy thing, but if we're talking about a job like firefighter it should be obvious that there are many different types of strength that are critically important. Lifting strength is important, sure...and also physical stamina, endurance of extreme temperatures, and the psychological strength required to think clearly when a building is burning down around you.

It would be great if there were a single chemical that could confer all of the above strengths--we'd put it in the drinking water at every firehouse!--but there's not.

[Lordieth]

Classic gender roles are rather outdated, but on a very primitive level, some gender roles can be explained by evolutionary biology, and the physiological differences between men and women. Which is all fine and dandy, except that men aren't expected to go out hunting boar any more, while the women nuture the young at the cave. These sorts of biologically-driven gender roles may have served as an evolutionary advantage once, but these days a lot of what are considered "gender roles" are no longer required for survival, and so I see no need to hold on to them, as tradition for tradition's sake isn't an argument for anything.

Although, there is perhaps an argument that gender roles still play a big part in mate selection, at least on a subconscious level. I'm all for equality, but biology doesn't treat men and women as equal. So, on a sociological level, I think gender roles are out-dated. On a biological level, they still play a part in certain aspects of our lives.

[Grave_n_idle]

Ah summer, the time where the heat gets to everyone's brains, and messes with their ability for reasonable debate.

Seriously how is this even an argument with relevance at all?

Lets be honest, are they actually strong as men ?
It's in nature that women take care of children whilst men fight and hunt, men have testosterone whilst women do not.
Even if women exercise regularly it's difficult for them to grow muscles as strong as men's.

I learnt this first thing in secondary school from my science and religious education/Sex Eduction class.

Assuming you're not just making it up for the keks, you went to a terrible school.

[New Reutlingen]

So according to you genetics are the default answer to everything? Well, those genetics also decide if you get a male or a female brain, no matter what your actual sex is, because genetics are funny like that. What genetics are absolutely not is perfect. Evolution doesn't work that way.

With a male penis or a female vagina.

So you're still one or the other. Or you're just in between as a Hermaphrodite.

So then their are apparently three distinct at least, and somehow those whose sexual organs take on the look of those of a different sex somehow does not count. No they are supposedly female, whose sexual organs look more like those of a male.

Next question, how does sexual organs somehow control brain chemistry, especially when relating to leadership?

Your sexual organs do not control your brain chemistry. If I get a sex change and turn my penis inside out, I won't start thinking like a woman. It's simply that women think one way and males think another way.

[Ostroeuropa]

So according to you genetics are the default answer to everything? Well, those genetics also decide if you get a male or a female brain, no matter what your actual sex is, because genetics are funny like that. What genetics are absolutely not is perfect. Evolution doesn't work that way.

With a male penis or a female vagina.

So you're still one or the other. Or you're just in between as a Hermaphrodite.

So then their are apparently three distinct at least, and somehow those whose sexual organs take on the look of those of a different sex somehow does not count. No they are supposedly female, whose sexual organs look more like those of a male.

Next question, how does sexual organs somehow control brain chemistry, especially when relating to leadership?

Your sexual organs do not control your brain chemistry. If I get a sex change and turn my penis inside out, I won't start thinking like a woman. It's simply that women think one way and males think another way.

You're aware that trans activists point out that brains of transwomen more closely resemble women than men right?

I think the argument goes that they were born with a womans brain in a mans body, because of something that occured in the womb.

[-The West Coast-]

Personally I'm a little old fashioned, not that I think women as ya know human beings are entitled to human rights, that we all deserve. But when it comes to gender roles (I'm a dude if you haven't guessed already) I abide by them

So you don't appreciate women exhibiting lib tendencies?

That would be a slippery slope towards self-awareness if a woman started exhibiting lib tendencies. Something the boys back at the lab would have to correct.