Ringworld 256 (IC, ATTN League of Mechanocracies Only)

by **Singaporean Transhumans** » Mon May 04, 2015 3:43 am

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RINGWORLD 256

What this is about.

A proper IC discussion thread for the League of Mechanocracies, an inter-universal organization of states that recognize the superiority and efficiency of machines at governing nations. Member states and observers can send in their own representatives, which will then have a proper quality IC discussion about various topics concerning society, economics, politics, diplomacy, technology, warfare, blah blah blah, you name it. The aim of the establishment of such a serious IC thread is to exchange knowledge and ideological opinions on all sides, and, less importantly and OOC, let participants practice roleplaying skills at the diplomatic level. It can also, from the OOC side, allow members to exchange IRL ideologies and opinions via IC posts.

Brief about the Ringworld

Ringworld #256, proper name PTFS Void Space Ring-Structured Energy Self-Sufficiency and Development Installation #256, is a "ringworld" structure built by the PTFS as part of Project Backshield, a ring-shaped inhabitable structure built around a star. Finding that this installation's construction site, located in an universe with easy teleportation access (and thus more vulnerable to unwanted enemies across universes), would be even more useless than a colony in Singapore's original universe, it was converted into a site for diplomatic purposes. Now, it is fully dedicated to the cause of the League, being a structure under the LoM's name rather than Singapore's.

The ringworld is self-sufficient with a central energy source, the star it was built around. It supplies the thermonuclear energy required by the installation itself, and makes everything living on its surface towards the star. The installation is composed of a highly heat-resistant compound alloy frame that spans 1.3 gigametres wide. The inner surface towards the sun is an Earth/Terra/Sol III-like habitat with utopian levels of habitability, however, as some species do not breath oxygen, it is advised a gas mask with sufficient supply of species' own gas of choice be brought. The gravity is 0.85 times that of Terra/Earth/Sol III, and is strictly controlled at said level. It is completely stable, unlike what happens in the novel Ringworld, and the star is also stable for the moment and is unlikely to have any catastrophes happening. All fauna and flora found on the world are Earth/Terra-like, but we do apologize for the lack of uniqueness. There are even tribal civilizations developing on certain parts for sociology study purposes.

The vastness of the world is very distracting for formal discussions as we plan to hold, so, all representatives will be supplied with a teleporter, fully configurable and safe to use, to teleport to anywhere if necessary. For over-distance discussions there is also ranged hologram projectors that you can use at your will. It is advised however that all representatives stay in the Urban Complex where you are teleported in at first, however.

Representatives can just enter through any portal*/teleportation and will be redirected to the starting area by default. Please do not tamper with mechanics of local teleportation, as serious consequences may ensue. Be also sure to keep everything about the discussion topics.

*as per any nation, just start off by "XXX enters", no need for specification for technology.

Discussion Topics

Please keep all discussion about the topics as much as possible.

How machines are more efficient
Political, social and economical ideologies
How to deal with technophobes
Technological advancement and progress
"Ethics" related to it
Military might! Also strategies, war machines, etc
How mechanocracy came to be in your history
Differences between ourselves
And between us and them

by **Aeiouia** » Mon May 04, 2015 7:57 pm

A (Thankfully normal-sized) remote holographic projection of the Aeiouian General Overseer arrives. She briefly looks around the staging area, before moving and taking a seat at a nearby chair.

She continues examining the surrounding area in her incorporeal form, while still remaining seated. She wishes to discuss peaceful ways to deal with technophobes with the others.

However, since no one else is around, things are very quiet. And the Overseer seems to be moderately bored while waiting for others to arrive.

by **Allancia** » Mon May 04, 2015 8:00 pm

An Allancian ambassador beams in. He wears military engineer fatigues, and carries several mechanical tools. He sits down on a bench, and looks around. Spotting someone, he calls over to her.
"Hello! Do you mind me asking who you are?"

by **Singaporean Transhumans** » Tue May 05, 2015 1:45 am

As soon as 2 figures came into sight of local surveillance networks, a representative AI immediately came out to greet them. "Hello, comrades! Welcome to this place. As far as I'm concerned, you must all be- er, it's pretty obvious that you are. Let me introduce myself. I'm B9VC4-235-7C2D, but just refer to me as B9V if you are tired of saying long codes. Everyone's here for ideological discussions I see."

The Allancian's question, before the Aeiouian could even answer, was taken by the representative of the PTFS. "Yeah so I know them....let me introduce them in their favour. The figure in hologram is General Overseer Mia Utopia, a notoriously infamous leader of Aeiouia who happens to be a cannibalistic, dope-slinging, massive, absurd cyborg. But there's the bright side: she forwarded pacifism in the Multiverse by promoting her own practices and culture. Hopefully you can deal with that."

by **Aeiouia** » Tue May 05, 2015 1:58 am

"Yes, they are right. Thank you, B9VC4-235-7C2D. As zey stated, Ambassador, I might be a bit... Infamous for my antics vhen I'm off-duty, but when I'm on the job, it is my goal to promote pacifism and scientific advancement in Aeiouia. I hope zat I can be a voice of our positions in the League as well.

It's nice to meet you-... Oh, I'm afraid zat I did not get your name, actually, ambassador. I do apologize. Who are you, if you do not mind me asking myself?"

by **Novum Alexandria** » Tue May 05, 2015 5:30 am

The Alexandrian representative appeared in a typically Alexandrian fashion, which is to say, obnoxiously clamorous portals consisting of blacks and whites. They were not remarkable for the reasons the automatons usually were- Tall, menacing, and so on.

This little creature was clad in nothing more than a red robe. They were barely four feet in height, and if one were to measure their age in human years, it would be twelve. They tottered over to the other representatives of their respective nations with a glass of apple juice in hand.

"I'm here for the things. The stuff, you know. The things."

by **The Transcended Darkness** » Tue May 05, 2015 5:40 am

The representative for The Transcended Darkness arrived in usual fashion for a denizen of the void, by melting through the fabric of reality. The Omnidroid looked around at the other representatives before introducing itself. "I am 725-V2-Hydra, sent by Omnius to represent his glorious power amongst those who believe in similar ideals."

by **Singaporean Transhumans** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:20 am

"Greetings there, all comrades!" the AI welcomes the newcomers with passion normally only found on baseliners. Evaluating this as unnecessary, they quickly turned to their rational form.

"As we are all here for," the tone got more serious, "a formal ideological discussion. What should we start with.....Ah, yes, how to deal with those pathetic technophobes and edgy conservatives who do not know the true meaning of progress as well as true efficiency and stability. I'll start."

"As in the PTFS's 'kill em all' strategy, people who oppose our techno-agenda and AIs ruling over them are deemed as 10-103M, that is, ideologically retarded. We hunt these scum of society down, and execute them without a fair trial, because as per our constitution opposition to technology is immediate death without trial. Why do we use such ruthless methods? Uh, by 'execution' we mean giving them a memory wipe and re-insert new stuff, so the original person is virtually dead and replaced with a new one. Nonetheless, it's still brutal. But you see any religious wackos in our borders? Any people who think technology is bad? No? That's right. Yes. That is the advantage."

"For foreign affairs, we practically invade technophobes and destroy them. We however also do enjoy fighting them in the field of reasoning and logic. Because, well, to say the very least, all technophobes are hypocrites. Opposition to technology? Per organic definition that includes sticks and stones as well! We used this logic to convert Benum Landum II from a backwards hellhole into a tech-loving utopia."

"Awful baseliners think Skynet is going to happen and hinder AI progress. What the fuck? That is just pure BS. If something is programmed for a purpose, it will and shall stick to that purpose. You ever saw your own computer suddenly turning into a killing machine? No? That's right! Besides Skynet is a disgrace to us automatons."

by **Allancia** » Tue May 05, 2015 7:27 am

Aeiouia wrote:
"Yes, they are right. Thank you, B9VC4-235-7C2D. As zey stated, Ambassador, I might be a bit... Infamous for my antics vhen I'm off-duty, but when I'm on the job, it is my goal to promote pacifism and scientific advancement in Aeiouia. I hope zat I can be a voice of our positions in the League as well.

It's nice to meet you-... Oh, I'm afraid zat I did not get your name, actually, ambassador. I do apologize. Who are you, if you do not mind me asking myself?"

The man scratched his head. "My names Freddy. I work in the Reichsluft, but I think I've stumbled into an inter dimensional portal.
Turning to the AI, he spoke. "I've seen a few techos in my day. That's what we in the Imperium call them. They keep going on about how technology will never replace real airman, but in the Reichsluft, they already have."

by **Novum Alexandria** » Tue May 05, 2015 8:09 am

The Alexandrian child listened in silence as the AI went on its tirade on about the supremacy of machines and the destruction of any who denied this. They sipped their apple juice idly, mostly bored, but they burst into a fit of giggles.

"Tell me why you think the slaughter is necessary, Crusader. Technophobes never prosper. They can be left behind without conflict."

They fingered the straw extending from their juice box with a sigh.

"Destroying the minds of finite creatures is silly. You cannot replace the beauty of life, no matter how close the copy. Though..." They shook their head. "I apologize. In Alexandria, we do not use 'life' for purely organic constructs. It is a term for all beings possessing intelligence and purpose. Assimilation and integration without destruction of the mind is so much more... Graceful."

by **Blakullar** » Tue May 05, 2015 9:58 am

Ringworld 256 Starting Area.
Approximately 5:58pm Mechanocratic Russia Standard Time.

The delegates in the room would notice a flickering as a small hologram projector-fitted drone, having flown in through a portal, buzzes into action. As the hologram becomes more discernible, short utterances of cut-off words can be heard. Gradually, it becomes more legible, and the figure that manifests is wearing a Soviet-era military uniform and a gas mask. To anyone familiar with Russian culture, it soon becomes clear that this is none other than Grand Curator Prokhor Stahlrim appearing before them.

They are greeted with a garbled "Eto veshch' na?". Then a much more coherent: "Da, da, eto yest'." Stahlrim finally appears in full, with only the occasional flicker as the projector calibrates itself with each of his movements.

"First, an apology!" he begins, after clearing his throat. "I WOULD have been here much sooner, but there is the matter that this projector is the very first object that we have sent through a stable portal as part of an experiment back home and I'm only just getting used to simultaneously piloting this thing and moving normally! Now ... where do I go to partake in this meeting?"

by **Excidium Planetis** » Tue May 05, 2015 12:44 pm

The Excidian representative to the League of Mechanocracies was, as usual, late to anything remotely important. He had not been chosen for his competence, his knowledge of the subjects to be discuss, his political savvy, or anything remotely resembling good reasons to send him instead of a more experienced Counselor. Instead, Counselor Yonkers had been chosen because he was both a Council member and a cyborg, which the rest of the council figured would be of such immense benefit to Yonkers' credibility at the meeting that they had completely disregarded the fact that he was not only the youngest Counselor, but also came from the hellhole that is Sector 1.

Counselor Yonkers shows his Excidian Identification Card to anyone who looks remotely like someone in charge.

Yonkers lazily takes a seat at the nearest thing that resembles a couch, and listens to the conversation of the other delegates.

When B9VC4-235-7C2D stops greeting newcomers and begins discussing the technophobe problem, Yonkers mostly just ignores the conversation. He's heard this before, they teach it in Excidium Planetis' schools when they discuss the Purist War. But the last few sentences catch Yonkers' attention, partly because the use of the unfamiliar word "Skynet".

"Awful baseliners think Skynet is going to happen and hinder AI progress. What the fuck? That is just pure BS. If something is programmed for a purpose, it will and shall stick to that purpose. You ever saw your own computer suddenly turning into a killing machine? No? That's right! Besides Skynet is a disgrace to us automatons."

Yonkers coughs loudly, raises his hand, then remembers this isn't highschool. Yonkers quickly lowers his hand, and stands to address B9V. "Ahem, uh, excuse me... um, two things. Firstly, what exactly is this 'Skynet' thing you're talking about. I am unfamiliar with it. And, uh, second, you seem to refer to machines programmed with a specific purpose. But by definition, those machines are not sapient beings. Sapient beings have a choice, and can choose to turn on their creators and destroy them if they desire. Unless you advocate rule only by machines that are complete slaves to their programming, we must consider the possibility of a machine uprising. Um, I think that's all I wanted to say... yeah. Thanks."

Yonkers tries to sit back down somewhat gracefully, but fails miserably. He slips, falls on the ground, and hastily returns to his couch.

by **Aeiouia** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:19 pm

"Of course, of course. Counsellor Yonkers does have a slight point on the subject of non-sapient machines. But, ze solution zat most baseliners should adopt for sapient machines is simple; treat any sapient artificial lifeform as they would any natural lifeform. The best way to prevent a machine rebellion, Counsellor, is to give us no reason to rebel in ze first place.

If you are considered to be an equal vith all other citizens of your nation, you will harbour a sense of community with them. You would want to be a functioning member of your country's society, not a destructive rebel.

But, if you are feared, hated, and treated like a sub-person by your fellow countrymen, you will be motivated to rebel against those who keep you oppressed.

Honestly, I am always quite confused by how many baseline lifeforms fear us artificial lifeforms so much. The whole narrative of a "Machine Uprising" is a self-fulfilling prophecy, Counsellor.

The incorporeal avatar of the Overseer seems to produce a bottle of alcohol, and appears to be drinking from it causally while listening to the others.

by **Excidium Planetis** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:35 pm

Seth Yonkers sat back and listened as the hologram of General Overseer Utopia responded to his objections. He nodded the whole time, trying to formulate a response in that small portion of his brain that utilized computer data banks. He didn't bother to stand this time, the couch was quite comfortable.

"Well, I didn't necessarily mean an uprising of common sapient machines. What I'm talking about here is, um, a sapient machine we gave control of our nation to. This is the League of Mechanocracies, right? Doesn't 'Mechanocracy' mean, like, rule by the machines?

"Now, we have this Old Terran saying in Excidium Planetis: 'Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely', or something like that. Don't ask me who said it, I don't know. Now in our society the citizens hold most power, with only a little power being held by the Council, which is a bunch of people. No one person can control the whole thing. But with an AI in control, that one machine can be capable of running everything in the government. So what happens if that one sapient decides to 'rebel' on us, huh? We've just got a dictator!

"Why risk robotic tyranny when we can keep inefficient humans who will never take control? You get what I'm saying?"

by **Allancia** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:38 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:Seth Yonkers sat back and listened as the hologram of General Overseer Utopia responded to his objections. He nodded the whole time, trying to formulate a response in that small portion of his brain that utilized computer data banks. He didn't bother to stand this time, the couch was quite comfortable.

"Well, I didn't necessarily mean an uprising of common sapient machines. What I'm talking about here is, um, a sapient machine we gave control of our nation to. This is the League of Mechanocracies, right? Doesn't 'Mechanocracy' mean, like, rule by the machines?

"Now, we have this Old Terran saying in Excidium Planetis: 'Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely', or something like that. Don't ask me who said it, I don't know. Now in our society the citizens hold most power, with only a little power being held by the Council, which is a bunch of people. No one person can control the whole thing. But with an AI in control, that one machine can be capable of running everything in the government. So what happens if that one sapient decides to 'rebel' on us, huh? We've just got a dictator!

"Why risk robotic tyranny when we can keep inefficient humans who will never take control? You get what I'm saying?"

The engineer piped up. "It can be programmed to never act in a way humans disagree with. Programming it to confer with us shouldn't be too hard."

by **Excidium Planetis** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:41 pm

Yonkers facepalms at the Allancian ambassador Freddy's comment.

"Dude, did you like, even listen to what I said? I just said like, right before Mia Utopia that we are taking about sapient machines here. By definition, sapient machines are not bound by programming. We couldn't make them obey us if we wanted to, or they wouldn't be sapient!"

by **Aeiouia** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:54 pm

"A small amount of power invested in a council, with most power going to ze people? Zat sounds much like our "Overseer" system. Not all of us Mechanocracies are dictatorships. In fact, a few of us, Aeiouia included, are highly democratic.

Our position is technically not one of a true Mechanocracy, though. We believe in a democratic system where both baseline and artificial lifeforms have an equal chance of getting elected. While, from what we have seen, this system seems to strongly favour machines for their innate logic and efficiency, there is nothing preventing an organic lifeform from gaining office.

In fact, I myself was a natural lifeform vhen I was elected. Zat's why I still keep and identify with this appearance as a humanoid, despite ze fact that I no longer have a true "Body", being an advanced Infomorph and all."

The leader stops for a moment to take a sip of alcohol.

"Well... Actually, I technically was born as an artificial lifeform. It vas later discovered zat my original species was something akin to a failed and abandoned research project. But, that's a pretty complex and long story. For all intensive purposes, I vas a natural being. Ze species in question was almost indistinguishable from you Humans anyway.

But, I'm getting sidetracked. My point is zat you should simply allow any artificial lifeforms that run for positions in your council to serve the same terms as a comparable natural lifeform. It will probably end up zat, eventually, the machines start to get elected more often on account of their efficiency, or it might not. We don't know.

Although, the others here might have a different opinion in zis matter. So, I am probably not a good voice for them..."

by **Allancia** » Tue May 05, 2015 4:56 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:Yonkers facepalms at the Allancian ambassador Freddy's comment.

"Dude, did you like, even listen to what I said? I just said like, right before Mia Utopia that we are taking about sapient machines here. By definition, sapient machines are not bound by programming. We couldn't make them obey us if we wanted to, or they wouldn't be sapient!"

"Humans are sapient, are they not? Yet they are still bound by desires and sometimes even complete rigidity. You are both repulsed and disgusted by eating rotten food, to the point that you physically reject it. This isn't taught to you. It is inherent to be disgusted with rotten food. The same could apply to machines."

by **Excidium Planetis** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:19 pm

"I also happen to be repulsed by onions, Freddy, but I see people eating those disgusting excuses for food. And the idea of eating human meat makes me sick, but cannibalism is legal in Excidium Planetis , uh, as long as the human being eaten consented of course. We aren't savages. But that's because some people are okay with eating humans. Even rotten food has a considerable market: Bleu Cheese is quite popular in the upper-class Sectors, I hear, and even I will take a nice glass of fermented grape juice myself.

"But even if you want to go with something that only psychos wouldn't be disgusted by, like feces-covered spoiled dog meat- Hold on, I think I might throw up here. Is there a restroom around here? Nah, never mind, it's over. Where was I? Oh, yeah, even if you choose something no sane person will enjoy, they can still force themselves to eat it. Hand me a piece of the grossest edible, non-lethal thing you can find, and I will, like, take a bite of it to prove my point man. Sapient beings can make decisions using judgement. Usually that judgement isn't f***in' nuts, but a sapient being can choose to ignore instincts.

"If you designed an AI that wouldn't have an option of taking over the country by force, then it wouldn't be a true Sapient. It'd be an automaton that couldn't think for itself."

by **Allancia** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:24 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:"I also happen to be repulsed by onions, Freddy, but I see people eating those disgusting excuses for food. And the idea of eating human meat makes me sick, but cannibalism is legal in Excidium Planetis , uh, as long as the human being eaten consented of course. We aren't savages. But that's because some people are okay with eating humans. Even rotten food has a considerable market: Bleu Cheese is quite popular in the upper-class Sectors, I hear, and even I will take a nice glass of fermented grape juice myself.

"But even if you want to go with something that only psychos wouldn't be disgusted by, like feces-covered spoiled dog meat- Hold on, I think I might throw up here. Is there a restroom around here? Nah, never mind, it's over. Where was I? Oh, yeah, even if you choose something no sane person will enjoy, they can still force themselves to eat it. Hand me a piece of the grossest edible, non-lethal thing you can find, and I will, like, take a bite of it to prove my point man. Sapient beings can make decisions using judgement. Usually that judgement isn't f***in' nuts, but a sapient being can choose to ignore instincts.

"If you designed an AI that wouldn't have an option of taking over the country by force, then it wouldn't be a true Sapient. It'd be an automaton that couldn't think for itself."

"There's a big difference between being a completely mindless machine and being able to think within limits." The engineer stood up and fished a disk out of his pocket, which he began scratching at.

by **Novum Alexandria** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:27 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:"If you designed an AI that wouldn't have an option of taking over the country by force, then it wouldn't be a true Sapient. It'd be an automaton that couldn't think for itself."

The Alexandrian giggled softly. "Which is why we refer to organics that are hard programmed as automatons. It is silly to maintain the line that divides organics and machines- Embrace both, and allow assimilation to occur. Unity." They purred out 'unity' with something between crazed adoration and gentle insistence.

"Tell me, fully grown fleshy ones, would the assistance of the Royal Inquisition be desired? We are most adept at peaceful suppression and assimilation. So few resist after they see the error of their ways..." The Alexandrian coos to those present.

by **Allancia** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:29 pm

Novum Alexandria wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:"If you designed an AI that wouldn't have an option of taking over the country by force, then it wouldn't be a true Sapient. It'd be an automaton that couldn't think for itself."

The Alexandrian giggled softly. "Which is why we refer to organics that are hard programmed as automatons. It is silly to maintain the line that divides organics and machines- Embrace both, and allow assimilation to occur. Unity." They purred out 'unity' with something between crazed adoration and gentle insistence.

"Tell me, fully grown fleshy ones, would the assistance of the Royal Inquisition be desired? We are most adept at peaceful suppression and assimilation. So few resist after they see the error of their ways..." The Alexandrian coos to those present.

The engineer grimaced. "Even the DMIOE understands and appreciates division. I'll keep my vulnerable meat body, thank you."

by **Excidium Planetis** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:32 pm

Counselor Yonkers grimaces at the offer of the Alexandrian ambassador.

"Uh, no thanks kid. I'm already okay with my machine integration."

Yonkers turns to back to Freddy.

"So you advocate mentally handicapping sapient beings to prevent them from possibly rebelling?

"The citizens of Excidium Planetis hold their freedoms dearly. Perhaps we could, uh, be a better country if we did this or did that, you know, those socialist equality things, or police surveilance or stuff. But we'd have to sacrifice our liberties. Another old guy back on Old Terra said something we still remember today: 'Those who give up a little liberty to secure a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety'. Or something like that.

"Anyways, this kind of government mind control is reprehensible to the people of Excidium Planetis, and the Council would never condone such actions. It is either full sapience for AIs or none at all."

by **Aeiouia** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:32 pm

Upon hearing the subject switch to cannibalism, Overseer Mia becomes oddly quiet for a few minutes. Most likely as to not be a hypocrite. She instead continues casually drinking while listening to the others.

by **Allancia** » Tue May 05, 2015 6:49 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:Counselor Yonkers grimaces at the offer of the Alexandrian ambassador.

"Uh, no thanks kid. I'm already okay with my machine integration."

Yonkers turns to back to Freddy.

"So you advocate mentally handicapping sapient beings to prevent them from possibly rebelling?

"The citizens of Excidium Planetis hold their freedoms dearly. Perhaps we could, uh, be a better country if we did this or did that, you know, those socialist equality things, or police surveilance or stuff. But we'd have to sacrifice our liberties. Another old guy back on Old Terra said something we still remember today: 'Those who give up a little liberty to secure a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety'. Or something like that.

"Anyways, this kind of government mind control is reprehensible to the people of Excidium Planetis, and the Council would never condone such actions. It is either full sapience for AIs or none at all."

Freddy sighed. "Mind you, Allancia is a command economic totalitarianism. For us, we blatantly and openly put restrictions on AIs to stop them from rebelling. Even the DMIOE has handicaps, and it's the most powerful AI we have."

Ringworld 256 (IC, ATTN League of Mechanocracies Only)

Ringworld 256 (IC, ATTN League of Mechanocracies Only)

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