Christian Discussion Thread IV

[Efraim-Judah]

Yeshua made it clear that he isn't a part of God.

He isn't a part of God, He IS God.

No he is not!

For it is written "God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind."


Yeshua isn't God.

His mission doesn't change, his actions do not change, if you accept this.

[Grand Calvert]

Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

[Grand Calvert]

Not to mention that Jesus says that only God is to be worshipped, yet has His followers worship Him.

[The Creepoc Infinite]

Not to mention that Jesus says that only God is to be worshipped, yet has His followers worship Him.

And if you interpret worship loosely enough, many Americans "worship" the almighty dollar and the almighty football.

[Efraim-Judah]

Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

This is often used by paganized Trinitarians to support that Messiah is God, this however is wrong. The fact that Messiah has “all the fullness” of God does not make him God. Ephesians 3:19 says that Christians should be filled with “all the fullness of God,” and no one believes that would make each Christian, God. This is a warning against turning to "Hollow and deceptive theology." It does not mean that Messiah is God.

[Grand Calvert]

Not to mention that Jesus says that only God is to be worshipped, yet has His followers worship Him.

And if you interpret worship loosely enough, many Americans "worship" the almighty dollar and the almighty football.

Well worship can mean putting something first. My point is that Jesus is God according to the Bible.

[Efraim-Judah]

Not to mention that Jesus says that only God is to be worshipped, yet has His followers worship Him.

Where is this?

[Grand Calvert]

John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

[Grand Calvert]

Not to mention that Jesus says that only God is to be worshipped, yet has His followers worship Him.

Where is this?

John 9:35-38, "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

[Efraim-Judah]

Where is this?

John 9:35-38, "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

prosekynēsen means to fall to your knees. As opposed to worship. Faulty english translation.

[Grand Calvert]

John 9:35-38, "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

prosekynēsen means to fall to your knees. As opposed to worship. Faulty english translation.

Even then, I've posted more verses that prove Jesus's divinity.

[Efraim-Judah]

prosekynēsen means to fall to your knees. As opposed to worship. Faulty english translation.

Even then, I've posted more verses that prove Jesus's divinity.

All of them fail to prove the divinity of Jesus and can easily be answered away. Yeshua isn't God. Accept this and nothing changes.

[Grand Calvert]

Even then, I've posted more verses that prove Jesus's divinity.

All of them fail to prove the divinity of Jesus and can easily be answered away. Yeshua isn't God. Accept this and nothing changes.

No, Jesus's death on the cross has the atoning power to save anyone BECAUSE He is God. All you've done is maneuver your way around the verses that prove it so.

[Efraim-Judah]

All of them fail to prove the divinity of Jesus and can easily be answered away. Yeshua isn't God. Accept this and nothing changes.

No, Jesus's death on the cross has the atoning power to save anyone BECAUSE He is God. All you've done is maneuver your way around the verses that prove it so.

No it was not!

It is because he was THE blemishless lamb! Lambs aren't God. Humans aren't God. Yeshua wasn't God.

[Grand Calvert]

No, Jesus's death on the cross has the atoning power to save anyone BECAUSE He is God. All you've done is maneuver your way around the verses that prove it so.

No it was not!

It is because he was THE blemishless lamb! Lambs aren't God. Humans aren't God. Yeshua wasn't God.

You didn't respond to John 5:18...

[Efraim-Judah]

No it was not!

It is because he was THE blemishless lamb! Lambs aren't God. Humans aren't God. Yeshua wasn't God.

You didn't respond to John 5:18...

The concept of people being “equal” is found in several places in the Bible. For example, when Joseph was ruling Egypt under Pharaoh, Judah said to him, “You are equal to Pharaoh himself” (Gen. 44:18). Paul wrote about men who wanted to be considered “equal with us” (2 Cor. 11:12). No Christian I am aware of believes that Joseph and Pharaoh or Paul and his opponents are “of one substance,” and make up “one being” simply because they are called “equal.”John 5:18 should be handled like the other verses that mention equality. Jesus was using God’s power and authority on earth, and was thus “equal” to God in the same way Joseph, who was using Pharaoh’s authority and power, was equal to Pharaoh.

[Grand Calvert]

You didn't respond to John 5:18...

The concept of people being “equal” is found in several places in the Bible. For example, when Joseph was ruling Egypt under Pharaoh, Judah said to him, “You are equal to Pharaoh himself” (Gen. 44:18). Paul wrote about men who wanted to be considered “equal with us” (2 Cor. 11:12). No Christian I am aware of believes that Joseph and Pharaoh or Paul and his opponents are “of one substance,” and make up “one being” simply because they are called “equal.”John 5:18 should be handled like the other verses that mention equality. Jesus was using God’s power and authority on earth, and was thus “equal” to God in the same way Joseph, who was using Pharaoh’s authority and power, was equal to Pharaoh.

Being equal to another person is different to being equal to God. If Jesus elevated Himself to God's authority, surely that would be sinful, no?

[Grand Calvert]

John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

[Efraim-Judah]

The concept of people being “equal” is found in several places in the Bible. For example, when Joseph was ruling Egypt under Pharaoh, Judah said to him, “You are equal to Pharaoh himself” (Gen. 44:18). Paul wrote about men who wanted to be considered “equal with us” (2 Cor. 11:12). No Christian I am aware of believes that Joseph and Pharaoh or Paul and his opponents are “of one substance,” and make up “one being” simply because they are called “equal.”John 5:18 should be handled like the other verses that mention equality. Jesus was using God’s power and authority on earth, and was thus “equal” to God in the same way Joseph, who was using Pharaoh’s authority and power, was equal to Pharaoh.

Being equal to another person is different to being equal to God. If Jesus elevated Himself to God's authority, surely that would be sinful, no?

It is written "Then Jesus came to them and said, '"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."'

He is Messiah and he came to correctly interpret the Torah and has Adonai's authority to do so. This was his 1st "mission."

[Efraim-Judah]

John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

I am He "The Messiah" NOT ADONAI.

[The Archregimancy]

Umm...the Trinity didn't originate in Paganism, it's how God revealed Himself in His Word.

Yes it did! Adonai has revealed himself as a single entity with many aspects.

Ah, so a bit like Lord Vishnu, then. Or, as his avatar Lord Krishna said, “I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts".

I'm sorry; what was the distinguishing characteristic from Paganism supposed to be here again?

[Efraim-Judah]

Yes it did! Adonai has revealed himself as a single entity with many aspects.

Ah, so a bit like Lord Vishnu, then. Or, as his avatar Lord Krishna said, “I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts".

I'm sorry; what was the distinguishing characteristic from Paganism supposed to be here again?

Adonai has no incarnations. He has a Loving father aspect, a warrior aspect, a protector aspect etc...

[Angleter]

No, He revealed Himself as triune.

He did not!

For it is written "Hear O Israel, The Lord our God , The Lord is One!"


Messiah made it clear that he wasn't God.


Paganized Christians added the Trinity!

*Sigh*

John 1:1-14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

[The Archregimancy]

Ah, so a bit like Lord Vishnu, then. Or, as his avatar Lord Krishna said, “I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts".

I'm sorry; what was the distinguishing characteristic from Paganism supposed to be here again?

Adonai has no incarnations. He has a Loving father aspect, a warrior aspect, a protector aspect etc...

So just like Vishnu, then, what with his preserver aspect, his protector aspect, and his many other aspects....

I'm sorry; I'm being slightly naughty here - but the basic point is that you're using language that's superficially identical to Hindu understandings of Vishnu to describe why your conception of Adonai is less pagan than the traditional Trinitarian version of Christianity.

And you'll forgive me, I hope, for finding that more than just a little ironic.

[Aelex]

Jesus'spoint was to get the man to see through his own implications, not to lie.

*Yeshua's

Yeshua made it clear that he isn't God.

Ok, I'll stop you here. No hipster bullshit like this. It's Jesus for the english, Jésus for the french and 耶稣 for the chinese. You can call it Yeshua because you prefer to say it in Hebrew but don't expect people to do as you, ok?