Infantry Discussion Thread 6: True Korea Edition

[Aqizithiuda]

(Image)
13,2x120mm PCTA for use by robits. The projectile is, rather obviously, based on the MK211, but does have a few differences, namely the solid steel body and plastic jacket.

Oh, and the end cap doubles up as a sabot, because yes.

How does the sabot end cap work?

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

How does the sabot end cap work?

Carefully, I imagine. In my mind, gasses from the propellant will push it forward, overcoming any resistance from the screw, and send the entire mass careening forward as a standard sabot. Keeping it together shouldn't be an issue, since it's essentially a cup, and I imagine separation would be fairly simple as well.

[Aqizithiuda]

How does the sabot end cap work?

Carefully, I imagine. In my mind, gasses from the propellant will push it forward, overcoming any resistance from the screw, and send the entire mass careening forward as a standard sabot. Keeping it together shouldn't be an issue, since it's essentially a cup, and I imagine separation would be fairly simple as well.

The gasses will be acting on the rear of it first, though, so you'll have the rear of the cup moving faster than the front, which will only serve to buckle it.

[Azurg]

The gasses will be acting on the rear of it first, though, so you'll have the rear of the cup moving faster than the front, which will only serve to buckle it.

a) Wouldn't the bullet it's wrapped around lend some amount of rigidity, thus solving the issue?
b) Wouldn't the gasses have a stronger effect on the 25mmnfront section than they would the 15mm rear?
c) Why doesn't this seem to be an issue with other sabots?

[Mick Swagger]

The gasses will be acting on the rear of it first, though, so you'll have the rear of the cup moving faster than the front, which will only serve to buckle it.

a) Wouldn't the bullet it's wrapped around lend some amount of rigidity, thus solving the issue?
b) Wouldn't the gasses have a stronger effect on the 25mmnfront section than they would the 15mm rear?
c) Why doesn't this seem to be an issue with other sabots?

Other sabots are either flat or concave at the base, not convex.

[Krazakistan]

It's entirely doable to chamber a G3 in 7.92x57 Mauser, ja?

[Imperializt Russia]

It's entirely doable to chamber a G3 in 7.92x57 Mauser, ja?

It's a substantially larger and somewhat more powerful cartridge than the 7.62mm cartridge it currently accommodates.
You may need an entire redesign to accommodate it.

[Krazakistan]

It's entirely doable to chamber a G3 in 7.92x57 Mauser, ja?

It's a substantially larger and somewhat more powerful cartridge than the 7.62mm cartridge it currently accommodates.
You may need an entire redesign to accommodate it.

Hm. Well that's a bit of let down. I'll try my hand at linearting a G3 and change the design to accommodate the larger caliber. What changes would need to be made?

[Mick Swagger]

It's entirely doable to chamber a G3 in 7.92x57 Mauser, ja?

Yes. The most OGest HK, the Gerat-03, was chambered in 8mm Mauser. Granted, it used a piston, but the basic locking was there. And the -06H got rid of the piston. You'd need to modify the locking rollers to get the timing right with the cartridge, but it's not that difficult.

[Krazakistan]

It's entirely doable to chamber a G3 in 7.92x57 Mauser, ja?

Yes. The most OGest HK, the Gerat-03, was chambered in 8mm Mauser. Granted, it used a piston, but the basic locking was there. And the -06H got rid of the piston. You'd need to modify the locking rollers to get the timing right with the cartridge, but it's not that difficult.

From what I saw, the Gerat-03 bares a striking resemblance of the G-43. Well, looks like I found my 1950s battle rifle.

Oh wait, no need to lineart a modified a G3. In a bit of digging I found this beauty:



The LV-50, a 7.92 Mauser rifle designed by Ludwig Vorgrimler for CETME.

Just got to give this beauty polymer parts and some picatinny rails and I have my army's rifle!

[New Visegrad]

Unusual question here.

Theoretically speaking, could you make a Gatling-type weapon that uses the feed system from a chaingun, or are they mutually exclusive? If you did, would it be terrible?
Note that I don't plan to actually do this. I just got curious since I'm discussing the difference between a Gatling gun and a chaingun elsewhere.

[Crookfur]

Barrels for machine guns aren't match grade. In fact, machine guns are actually better if they're slightly less accurate, especially large ones.

I was afraid of that. Oh well.. :/

Wilst they aren't match grade in thier average finished state MG barrels can make a good basis for precision rifle biulding.

Generally you start out making barrel blanks on the same machinery and then for precision rifles you pick out the best blanks and hand finish them. This has been done historically and is still done by the likes of FN for the M240/FN MAG and the FN SPR.

Not that a big ass presumably semi automatic anti material rifle is going to be a tack driver and it will have other factors affecting accuracy that will have a bigger impact than weither you are using decent average quality barrels or hand selelcted and finished special jobs.

On your gun image itself you will porbabaly want to mount the scope a lot further forward. With AMRs you tend to want to use a long eye releif scope that can be placed a good distance away from the shooter's eye so as not to injure them during recoil. The muzzle device also looks a lot more like a muzzle booster from a MG42 (which was designed to increase the force at which the barrel recoils to increase reliable feeding from a belt) rather than a muzzle brake which would pretty much be required for a rifle like this.

[Crookfur]

Unusual question here.

Theoretically speaking, could you make a Gatling-type weapon that uses the feed system from a chaingun, or are they mutually exclusive? If you did, would it be terrible?
Note that I don't plan to actually do this. I just got curious since I'm discussing the difference between a Gatling gun and a chaingun elsewhere.

What do you mean by feed system? gatlings and chain guns both exist in versions that can be feed from a belt or a linkless feed.

[Stahn]

I was afraid of that. Oh well.. :/

Wilst they aren't match grade in thier average finished state MG barrels can make a good basis for precision rifle biulding.

Generally you start out making barrel blanks on the same machinery and then for precision rifles you pick out the best blanks and hand finish them. This has been done historically and is still done by the likes of FN for the M240/FN MAG and the FN SPR.

Not that a big ass presumably semi automatic anti material rifle is going to be a tack driver and it will have other factors affecting accuracy that will have a bigger impact than weither you are using decent average quality barrels or hand selelcted and finished special jobs.

On your gun image itself you will porbabaly want to mount the scope a lot further forward. With AMRs you tend to want to use a long eye releif scope that can be placed a good distance away from the shooter's eye so as not to injure them during recoil. The muzzle device also looks a lot more like a muzzle booster from a MG42 (which was designed to increase the force at which the barrel recoils to increase reliable feeding from a belt) rather than a muzzle brake which would pretty much be required for a rifle like this.

This makes a lot of sense. Luckily, these are changes that are not hard to do. Thanks a lot.

[New Visegrad]

Unusual question here.

Theoretically speaking, could you make a Gatling-type weapon that uses the feed system from a chaingun, or are they mutually exclusive? If you did, would it be terrible?
Note that I don't plan to actually do this. I just got curious since I'm discussing the difference between a Gatling gun and a chaingun elsewhere.

What do you mean by feed system? gatlings and chain guns both exist in versions that can be feed from a belt or a linkless feed.

According to Wikipedia (fite me bro), a chain gun is fed by means of a chain operating the bolt. I was under the impression that a Gatling gun usually had a more traditional system behind the barrel.
The main question I'm getting at is whether it is possible for a Gatling gun to also be a chain gun.

[Crookfur]

Mostly that would be becuase they are very simple.

Simple in hindsight. When you can find no images, videos or anything and googling "magazine release" tends to give you dates it's a tad different. The only one I managed to figure out is a heel release on some strange ancient handgun.

The ak paddle is just a bit of metal with a pivot and a spring. The spring forces the paddle top into a cut out on the mag and pressing the bottom of the paddle forces the top back against the spring and out of the cutout on the magazine releasing the mag. Most other systems are roughly similar in concept in that pressing the release cases the catch to move out of a cutout on the magazine

So basically I have a seesaw with a spring around the axle and a hook on one end?

more or less see here which shows how to repalce the existing catch with a more tacticool one. Just google Ak magazine release should show you umpteen picutres of fancy aftermarket Ak mag releases as well as how the original works.

[Crookfur]

What do you mean by feed system? gatlings and chain guns both exist in versions that can be feed from a belt or a linkless feed.

According to Wikipedia (fite me bro), a chain gun is fed by means of a chain operating the bolt. I was under the impression that a Gatling gun usually had a more traditional system behind the barrel.
The main question I'm getting at is whether it is possible for a Gatling gun to also be a chain gun.

not really as a true gatling uses the turning of the rotor to drive the bolts back and forth so it would be impossible/pointless to also add a chain pulling each back and forwards.

I mena you could in thoery create a multi barreled gun that uses a chain on each barrel driven by the same motor to operate the bolts but timing would be a nightmare and it would big bulky and very complex for no real benefit.

[New Visegrad]

According to Wikipedia (fite me bro), a chain gun is fed by means of a chain operating the bolt. I was under the impression that a Gatling gun usually had a more traditional system behind the barrel.
The main question I'm getting at is whether it is possible for a Gatling gun to also be a chain gun.

not really as a true gatling uses the turning of the rotor to drive the bolts back and forth so it would be impossible/pointless to also add a chain pulling each back and forwards.

I mena you could in thoery create a multi barreled gun that uses a chain on each barrel driven by the same motor to operate the bolts but timing would be a nightmare and it would big bulky and very complex for no real benefit.

...Wait, a Gatling gun has multiple bolts? I thought it had just the one bolt and firing system and spun the barrels independently for cooling, only firing the one that matched up with the bolt at the time.
I don't know what to believe any more...

[Mick Swagger]

not really as a true gatling uses the turning of the rotor to drive the bolts back and forth so it would be impossible/pointless to also add a chain pulling each back and forwards.

I mena you could in thoery create a multi barreled gun that uses a chain on each barrel driven by the same motor to operate the bolts but timing would be a nightmare and it would big bulky and very complex for no real benefit.

...Wait, a Gatling gun has multiple bolts? I thought it had just the one bolt and firing system and spun the barrels independently for cooling, only firing the one that matched up with the bolt at the time.
I don't know what to believe any more...

https://youtu.be/ildteJbZ9Jw

[Crookfur]

not really as a true gatling uses the turning of the rotor to drive the bolts back and forth so it would be impossible/pointless to also add a chain pulling each back and forwards.

I mena you could in thoery create a multi barreled gun that uses a chain on each barrel driven by the same motor to operate the bolts but timing would be a nightmare and it would big bulky and very complex for no real benefit.

...Wait, a Gatling gun has multiple bolts? I thought it had just the one bolt and firing system and spun the barrels independently for cooling, only firing the one that matched up with the bolt at the time.
I don't know what to believe any more...

Yup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6m7mpfc5A

Its the defining feature of why they can fire so fast and its pretty much how most early mutiple barrel guns worked.

[Bezombia]

...Wait, a Gatling gun has multiple bolts? I thought it had just the one bolt and firing system and spun the barrels independently for cooling, only firing the one that matched up with the bolt at the time.
I don't know what to believe any more...

Yup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6m7mpfc5A

Its the defining feature of why they can fire so fast and its pretty much how most early mutiple barrel guns worked.

that is not a gatling gun

...Wait, a Gatling gun has multiple bolts? I thought it had just the one bolt and firing system and spun the barrels independently for cooling, only firing the one that matched up with the bolt at the time.
I don't know what to believe any more...

https://youtu.be/ildteJbZ9Jw

that is a gatling gun

[New Visegrad]

...Wait, a Gatling gun has multiple bolts? I thought it had just the one bolt and firing system and spun the barrels independently for cooling, only firing the one that matched up with the bolt at the time.
I don't know what to believe any more...

https://youtu.be/ildteJbZ9Jw

That's actually really neat. TIL, thanks.

Edit: not really infantry but - my starships have cylindrical main hulls. Build giant Gatling gauss lance system around the exterior y/y?

[Rhoderberg]

https://youtu.be/ildteJbZ9Jw

That's actually really neat. TIL, thanks.

Edit: not really infantry but - my starships have cylindrical main hulls. Build giant Gatling gauss lance system around the exterior y/y?

While the concept sounds hilariously impractical as that sounds, you should totally do it.

[Fordorsia]

Fordorsian Marines in the High and Late Medieval periods used overbuilt falchions. Yes.

[Aqizithiuda]

The gasses will be acting on the rear of it first, though, so you'll have the rear of the cup moving faster than the front, which will only serve to buckle it.

a) Wouldn't the bullet it's wrapped around lend some amount of rigidity, thus solving the issue?
b) Wouldn't the gasses have a stronger effect on the 25mmnfront section than they would the 15mm rear?
c) Why doesn't this seem to be an issue with other sabots?

a) not for the entire length.
b) they would, but they hit the 15mm base first.
c) because other sabots only have a single surface for the gas to act on.