Enhanced Interrogation Techniques: Are they torture?

[Catholic Federalized States]

Converting to Christianity doesn't imply death if you refuse. I'm just stating that was the end goal.

I'm still not seeing how that excludes killing people who don't convert.

It doesn't. That's why people died.

Doesn't mean that it's right, though.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

Torture? Yes. Moral? No.

Justified..? Yes.

I would love to live in a world without torture myself, but it's unfortunate that I can't due to the high amounts of terrorism in modern day society.

We need these forms of interrogation and torture in order to get the information out of war criminals and terrorists. Without it, we would not have the intel. and information that we do right now. These techniques allow us to find out where other war criminals and terrorists are, along with what they are planning to do.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Torture? Yes. Moral? No.

Justified..? Yes.

I would love to live in a world without torture myself, but it's unfortunate that I can't due to the high amounts of terrorism in modern day society.

We need these forms of interrogation and torture in order to get the information out of war criminals and terrorists. Without it, we would not have the intel. and information that we do right now. These techniques allow us to find out where other war criminals and terrorists are, along with what they are planning to do.

No. No they really do not.

There is a lot of evidence that torture is one of the worst ways to get reliable intel.
Torturing a fanatic plays into that fanatic's demonization of their captors. It makes them feel more righteous in their resistance and makes it easier for them to resist.

DAVID IGLESIAS, Former Guantanamo Prosecutor: No, it doesn’t work.

The problem with EITs, which is a euphemism for torture, is, it doesn’t work. You always want to get a voluntary statement with reliable information. And in every case that the Senate committee looked at, the actual evidence used came from nonabusive interrogation tactics.

So, as a former war crimes prosecutor, I can tell you, it’s radioactive, and, more importantly, from a realpolitik point of view, it just doesn’t work.

IA Director John Brennan said on Thursday some agency officers used "abhorrent" methods on detainees captured following the Sept. 11 attacks and said it was "unknowable" whether harsh interrogation techniques yielded useful intelligence.

With his agency under fire in the aftermath of a U.S. Senate report detailing the CIA's use of torture on detainees after the 2001 attacks, Brennan rejected the report's conclusion that the agency had deceived the White House, Congress and the public about its interrogation program.

"Our reviews indicate that the detention and interrogation program produced useful intelligence that helped the United States thwart attack plans, capture terrorists and save lives," Brennan told a news conference at the agency's Virginia headquarters.
Psychologist: Senate's torture report makes false charges
Psychologist: Senate's torture report makes false charges

"But let me be clear. We have not concluded that it was the use of EITs (enhanced interrogation techniques) within that program that allowed us to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them," Brennan said.

"The cause-and-effect relationship between the use of EITs and useful information subsequently provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable," he added.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

No. No they really do not.

There is a lot of evidence that torture is one of the worst ways to get reliable intel.
Torturing a fanatic plays into that fanatic's demonization of their captors. It makes them feel more righteous in their resistance and makes it easier for them to resist.

DAVID IGLESIAS, Former Guantanamo Prosecutor: No, it doesn’t work.

The problem with EITs, which is a euphemism for torture, is, it doesn’t work. You always want to get a voluntary statement with reliable information. And in every case that the Senate committee looked at, the actual evidence used came from nonabusive interrogation tactics.

So, as a former war crimes prosecutor, I can tell you, it’s radioactive, and, more importantly, from a realpolitik point of view, it just doesn’t work.

IA Director John Brennan said on Thursday some agency officers used "abhorrent" methods on detainees captured following the Sept. 11 attacks and said it was "unknowable" whether harsh interrogation techniques yielded useful intelligence.

With his agency under fire in the aftermath of a U.S. Senate report detailing the CIA's use of torture on detainees after the 2001 attacks, Brennan rejected the report's conclusion that the agency had deceived the White House, Congress and the public about its interrogation program.

"Our reviews indicate that the detention and interrogation program produced useful intelligence that helped the United States thwart attack plans, capture terrorists and save lives," Brennan told a news conference at the agency's Virginia headquarters.
Psychologist: Senate's torture report makes false charges
Psychologist: Senate's torture report makes false charges

"But let me be clear. We have not concluded that it was the use of EITs (enhanced interrogation techniques) within that program that allowed us to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them," Brennan said.

"The cause-and-effect relationship between the use of EITs and useful information subsequently provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable," he added.

So... what else do we do? Tell them we're sorry for invading their country and proceed to ask them nicely?


As "ineffective" as it is, it still does work.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

So... what else do we do? Tell them we're sorry for invading their country and proceed to ask them nicely?


As "ineffective" as it is, it still does work.

Can you read? That's what ineffective means.

No it doesn't.

It doesn't work.

Your deluding yourself because you want revenge.

Treating enemy combatants in the same way we would treat prisoners of war, by demonstrating basic civility, has gotten us far, far more intel than torture ever did.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

So... what else do we do? Tell them we're sorry for invading their country and proceed to ask them nicely?


As "ineffective" as it is, it still does work.

Can you read? That's what ineffective means.

No. I'm an illiterate four year old, and hence I will not be able to respond to any more of your posts.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

The most successful interrogation of an Al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or "walling" and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.

Abu Jandal had been in a Yemeni prison for nearly a year when Ali Soufan of the FBI and Robert McFadden of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service arrived to interrogate him in the week after 9/11. Although there was already evidence that al-Qaeda was behind the attacks, American authorities needed conclusive proof, not least to satisfy skeptics like Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, whose support was essential for any action against the terrorist organization. U.S. intelligence agencies also needed a better understanding of al-Qaeda’s structure and leadership. Abu Jandal was the perfect source: the Yemeni who grew up in Saudi Arabia had been bin Laden’s chief bodyguard, trusted not only to protect him but also to put a bullet in his head rather than let him be captured.

Abu Jandal’s guards were so intimidated by him, they wore masks to hide their identities and begged visitors not to refer to them by name in his presence. He had no intention of cooperating with the Americans; at their first meetings, he refused even to look at them and ranted about the evils of the West. Far from confirming al-Qaeda’s involvement in 9/11, he insisted the attacks had been orchestrated by Israel’s Mossad. While Abu Jandal was venting his spleen, Soufan noticed that he didn’t touch any of the cookies that had been served with tea: "He was a diabetic and couldn’t eat anything with sugar in it." At their next meeting, the Americans brought him some sugar-free cookies, a gesture that took the edge off Abu Jandal’s angry demeanor. "We had showed him respect, and we had done this nice thing for him," Soufan recalls. "So he started talking to us instead of giving us lectures."

It took more questioning, and some interrogators’ sleight of hand, before the Yemeni gave up a wealth of information about al-Qaeda – including the identities of seven of the 9/11 bombers – but the cookies were the turning point. "After that, he could no longer think of us as evil Americans," Soufan says. "Now he was thinking of us as human beings."

[Simargh]

No. No they really do not.

There is a lot of evidence that torture is one of the worst ways to get reliable intel.
Torturing a fanatic plays into that fanatic's demonization of their captors. It makes them feel more righteous in their resistance and makes it easier for them to resist.

So... what else do we do? Tell them we're sorry for invading their country and proceed to ask them nicely?


As "ineffective" as it is, it still does work.

No, treat them like human beings. Show them we're human beings and not the monsters they believe we are. Stuff like that. Sounds cliche, but appeal to the "soul". While you'll have some die hard's who'll refuse to see their actions as bad not matter what, most justify these things due to their worldview that has been shaped by interpretations of various events past and present. A good way to do that is, as stated, to make them realise we too are human.

As soon as that worldview cracks or shatters, so does their justification. Then you'll have a number of people going through a phase of "my god, what have I done?" and then, voila, you now have someone much more cooperative. Most of the people in these prions, will never leave. They know that. They've also lived in some horrendous conditions, so making them live in austere conditions that are lesser than what they've lived, will not do anything.

You have to, make them want to make peace with what they've done. To redeem themselves. And redemption is done through giving people information.

[Simargh]

The most successful interrogation of an Al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or "walling" and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.

Abu Jandal had been in a Yemeni prison for nearly a year when Ali Soufan of the FBI and Robert McFadden of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service arrived to interrogate him in the week after 9/11. Although there was already evidence that al-Qaeda was behind the attacks, American authorities needed conclusive proof, not least to satisfy skeptics like Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, whose support was essential for any action against the terrorist organization. U.S. intelligence agencies also needed a better understanding of al-Qaeda’s structure and leadership. Abu Jandal was the perfect source: the Yemeni who grew up in Saudi Arabia had been bin Laden’s chief bodyguard, trusted not only to protect him but also to put a bullet in his head rather than let him be captured.

Abu Jandal’s guards were so intimidated by him, they wore masks to hide their identities and begged visitors not to refer to them by name in his presence. He had no intention of cooperating with the Americans; at their first meetings, he refused even to look at them and ranted about the evils of the West. Far from confirming al-Qaeda’s involvement in 9/11, he insisted the attacks had been orchestrated by Israel’s Mossad. While Abu Jandal was venting his spleen, Soufan noticed that he didn’t touch any of the cookies that had been served with tea: "He was a diabetic and couldn’t eat anything with sugar in it." At their next meeting, the Americans brought him some sugar-free cookies, a gesture that took the edge off Abu Jandal’s angry demeanor. "We had showed him respect, and we had done this nice thing for him," Soufan recalls. "So he started talking to us instead of giving us lectures."

It took more questioning, and some interrogators’ sleight of hand, before the Yemeni gave up a wealth of information about al-Qaeda – including the identities of seven of the 9/11 bombers – but the cookies were the turning point. "After that, he could no longer think of us as evil Americans," Soufan says. "Now he was thinking of us as human beings."

Do you want to know the amazing thing about that guy? He's now a business consultant that wishes he'd killed bin Laden while serving as his bodyguard.

[Genivaria]

I have not condoned those actions. I merely pointed out a fact.

Like how early Christians who resisted the Roman Empire ended up feeding lions for entertainment. *nod nod*

Supposedly.

[Genivaria]

Can you read? That's what ineffective means.

No. I'm an illiterate four year old, and hence I will not be able to respond to any more of your posts.

And that's why I don't take you seriously.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

[Alyakia]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

then why did israel stop doing them

[Alyakia]

i'm going to answer for you: because they're inferior if not counter-productive (i.e. don't work)

[Scomagia]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

They don't work, which makes them unnecessary by default. It's not healthy to ignore reality.

[Simargh]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

Why are piss poor torture techniques necessary?

[Scomagia]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

Why are piss poor torture techniques necessary?

Because "reasons".

[Simargh]

Why are piss poor torture techniques necessary?

Because "reasons".

I too love unreliable, worthless, or even downright harmful information. *nod*

[The Princes of the Universe]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

Why are piss poor torture techniques necessary?

Because some people are disturbingly sadistic. Like those who think these torture techniques (let's call a spade a spade, folks) are not only necessary but actually useful.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

No,Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and they are necessary.

They don't work, which makes them unnecessary by default. It's not healthy to ignore reality.

I'm sure they work often enough and it's always worth a try, even if the success rate isn't 100pct.

[Sun Wukong]

I'm of the mind that the last thing you want to do when fighting an ideological war... is give your enemy the ability to validly criticize you.

Not only are they obviously torture. They're stupid.

[Myrensis]

So... what else do we do? Tell them we're sorry for invading their country and proceed to ask them nicely?

You use standard interrogation techniques?

Hanns Scharff would like a word with you. Most successful interrogator of WW2, never used torture or physical violence, and was so good at building rapport with his prisoners that he not only remained friends with several of them after the war, but was invited to give lectures to the US military and helped design their interrogation methods, methods still used today.

As "ineffective" as it is, it still does work.

citation needed.

The only thing torture is good for is making people feel good about having the chance to hurt their enemies, while avoiding the moral questions by proclaiming that they're only doing it for the best of reasons.

[Scomagia]

They don't work, which makes them unnecessary by default. It's not healthy to ignore reality.

I'm sure they work often enough and it's always worth a try, even if the success rate isn't 100pct.

Prove it works.

[Simargh]

They don't work, which makes them unnecessary by default. It's not healthy to ignore reality.

I'm sure they work often enough and it's always worth a try, even if the success rate isn't 100pct.

Does the fact that a former Gitmo prosecutor and CIA director saying they do not work, escape you?

[Genivaria]

They don't work, which makes them unnecessary by default. It's not healthy to ignore reality.

I'm sure they work often enough and it's always worth a try, even if the success rate isn't 100pct.

Like clockwork every torture apologist inevitably shows themselves to be a closet sadist.