Affirmative Action: Righting Past Wrongs or Modern Racism?

[Ifreann]

I shouldn't have to pay the price for historical inequality and for wrongs that people in my past have committed.

When I apply for college admission or for a job or for scholarships, my ethnic background and the ethnic background of other applicants shouldn't be a factor.

And which of the following do you think would be a better means of achieving that end: doing absolutely nothing and hoping that the problem solves itself, or taking active steps to guarantee the equal treatment of all candidates for employment or school places or what have you?

FYI, if you choose the latter you support affirmative action.

[New Hampshire Republic]

Its stupid to give someone a scholarship/job based on their race.

In a sense, it's racist.

[Crezilivion]

Its stupid to give someone a scholarship/job based on their race.

In a sense, it's racist.

It's just as racist to discriminate against whites as it is blacks. To say otherwise would be just as racist. It is true that it is somewhat difficult to change your "class" but any race is able to do it if they want it badly enough. If they don't become more wealthy then it is someones own fault unless (sometimes) they have a disability. Even then there are many with disabilities who have been very intelligent and successful, Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein for example.

[Sanctissima]

I shouldn't have to pay the price for historical inequality and for wrongs that people in my past have committed.

When I apply for college admission or for a job or for scholarships, my ethnic background and the ethnic background of other applicants shouldn't be a factor.

And which of the following do you think would be a better means of achieving that end: doing absolutely nothing and hoping that the problem solves itself, or taking active steps to guarantee the equal treatment of all candidates for employment or school places or what have you?

FYI, if you choose the latter you support affirmative action.

To be perfectly honest, I imagine affirmative action does far more to increase prejudice and discrimination than it does to diminish it.

[Mavorpen]

And which of the following do you think would be a better means of achieving that end: doing absolutely nothing and hoping that the problem solves itself, or taking active steps to guarantee the equal treatment of all candidates for employment or school places or what have you?

FYI, if you choose the latter you support affirmative action.

To be perfectly honest, I imagine affirmative action does far more to increase prejudice and discrimination than it does to diminish it.

And?

[Jamzmania]

I shouldn't have to pay the price for historical inequality and for wrongs that people in my past have committed.

When I apply for college admission or for a job or for scholarships, my ethnic background and the ethnic background of other applicants shouldn't be a factor.

And which of the following do you think would be a better means of achieving that end: doing absolutely nothing and hoping that the problem solves itself, or taking active steps to guarantee the equal treatment of all candidates for employment or school places or what have you?

FYI, if you choose the latter you support affirmative action.

Affirmative action seems to be the opposite of the latter.

[Sanctissima]

To be perfectly honest, I imagine affirmative action does far more to increase prejudice and discrimination than it does to diminish it.

And?

You're always one for detail.

Logically, who do you think would resent affirmative action the most? White people, i.e: those who aren't advantaged by affirmative action.

Evidently, down the road, this resentment is going to be a problem. Not so much for middle-upper class whites who for the most part will either support AA or grudgingly tolerate it. No, the real problem's going to be lower-class whites. These are the people who are going to be the most affected by job losses, since they're the ones who are going to be teetering dangerously close to poverty. So when the white guy who really needs a job to support his family can't get a job, who do you think he's going to blame? The black guy who got the job at the nearby factory instead of him. He's going to be going home each day, always more depressed than the last, wondering why his life sucks. His scapegoat (because there's always a scapegoat) is going to be the black guy, and eventually black people in general. This guy's going to become a racist, and his kids probably will too, since he's now regularly complaining about black people at home. And that's what AA does and will continue to do, it makes racists out of non-racists, because it's a shitty little system that was implemented by people who have little to no idea as to how life actually works.

[Mavorpen]

And?

You're always one for detail.

Logically, who do you think would resent affirmative action the most? White people, i.e: those who aren't advantaged by affirmative action.

Evidently, down the road, this resentment is going to be a problem. Not so much for middle-upper class whites who for the most part will either support AA or grudgingly tolerate it. No, the real problem's going to be lower-class whites. These are the people who are going to be the most affected by job losses, since they're the ones who are going to be teetering dangerously close to poverty. So when the white guy who really needs a job to support his family can't get a job, who do you think he's going to blame? The black guy who got the job at the nearby factory instead of him. He's going to be going home each day, always more depressed than the last, wondering why his life sucks. His scapegoat (because there's always a scapegoat) is going to be the black guy, and eventually black people in general. This guy's going to become a racist, and his kids probably will too, since he's now regularly complaining about black people at home. And that's what AA does and will continue to do, it makes racists out of non-racists, because it's a shitty little system that was implemented by people who have little to no idea as to how life actually works.

You're assuming white people are stupid. You're assuming white people aren't advantaged by affirmative action. Neither of which are true.

Or do you have any actual research confirming this?

[Catholic Federalized States]

I shouldn't have to pay the price for historical inequality and for wrongs that people in my past have committed.

When I apply for college admission or for a job or for scholarships, my ethnic background and the ethnic background of other applicants shouldn't be a factor.

or taking active steps to guarantee the equal treatment of all candidates for employment or school places or what have you?

FYI, if you choose the latter you support affirmative action.

Let's take "active steps" to guarantee equal treatment by giving the privileged heterosexual middle-aged white man the middle finger.

Equality doesn't work one way. There's absolutely no way affirmative action can be equal. The goal may be to establish equality in the end, but calling the action itself equal or standing for equality is stupid.

[Sanctissima]

You're always one for detail.

Logically, who do you think would resent affirmative action the most? White people, i.e: those who aren't advantaged by affirmative action.

Evidently, down the road, this resentment is going to be a problem. Not so much for middle-upper class whites who for the most part will either support AA or grudgingly tolerate it. No, the real problem's going to be lower-class whites. These are the people who are going to be the most affected by job losses, since they're the ones who are going to be teetering dangerously close to poverty. So when the white guy who really needs a job to support his family can't get a job, who do you think he's going to blame? The black guy who got the job at the nearby factory instead of him. He's going to be going home each day, always more depressed than the last, wondering why his life sucks. His scapegoat (because there's always a scapegoat) is going to be the black guy, and eventually black people in general. This guy's going to become a racist, and his kids probably will too, since he's now regularly complaining about black people at home. And that's what AA does and will continue to do, it makes racists out of non-racists, because it's a shitty little system that was implemented by people who have little to no idea as to how life actually works.

You're assuming white people are stupid. You're assuming white people aren't advantaged by affirmative action. Neither of which are true.

Or do you have any actual research confirming this?

Yes, again with the research.

Naturally, it's part of the human condition (unless you're incredibly wise, which is something most people aren't, hence my point) to, when you're really down on your luck, blame other people for your problems. The person who got the job you needed instead of you because of the color of their skin or whether or not they have a vagina is the logical scapegoat. Evidently, less educated people (which like it or not, is the bulk of the lower class) are going to do less educated things, like becoming racists. It doesn't take a genius to realize this.

[Halnatorum]

The answer to discrimination in the past is to change who is discriminated against in the future.

That makes as much sense as chopping off one's hand because one gave you the one finger salute.

[Mavorpen]

You're assuming white people are stupid. You're assuming white people aren't advantaged by affirmative action. Neither of which are true.

Or do you have any actual research confirming this?

Yes, again with the research.

Naturally, it's part of the human condition (unless you're incredibly wise, which is something most people aren't, hence my point) to, when you're really down on your luck, blame other people for your problems. The person who got the job you needed instead of you because of the color of their skin or whether or not they have a vagina is the logical scapegoat. Evidently, less educated people (which like it or not, is the bulk of the lower class) are going to do less educated things, like becoming racists. It doesn't take a genius to realize this.

So basically you're just making shit up.

Got it.

[Sanctissima]

Yes, again with the research.

Naturally, it's part of the human condition (unless you're incredibly wise, which is something most people aren't, hence my point) to, when you're really down on your luck, blame other people for your problems. The person who got the job you needed instead of you because of the color of their skin or whether or not they have a vagina is the logical scapegoat. Evidently, less educated people (which like it or not, is the bulk of the lower class) are going to do less educated things, like becoming racists. It doesn't take a genius to realize this.

So basically you're just making shit up.

Got it.

Your daily link dosage: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=43448

Are you so utterly narrowed in your thought that you can't contemplate something that isn't peer-reviewed? I know some mice that are better at thinking outside the box, literally.

[To Quoc Duc]

So basically you're just making shit up.

Got it.

May I sig this? Oh please oh please?

[Kravanica]

So basically you're just making shit up.

Got it.

May I sig this? Oh please oh please?

This isn't a paricularly unique quote?

[Mavorpen]

So basically you're just making shit up.

Got it.

Your daily link dosage: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=43448

Are you so utterly narrowed in your thought that you can't contemplate something that isn't peer-reviewed? I know some mice that are better at thinking outside the box, literally.

No. You're making a claim that can be studied using Peer reviewed research. If you don't have any, your claim is just bullshit. Get over it.

[Mavorpen]

So basically you're just making shit up.

Got it.

May I sig this? Oh please oh please?

It's not one of my better posts but sure, if you like.

[Sanctissima]

Your daily link dosage: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=43448

Are you so utterly narrowed in your thought that you can't contemplate something that isn't peer-reviewed? I know some mice that are better at thinking outside the box, literally.

No. You're making a claim that can be studied using Peer reviewed research. If you don't have any, your claim is Judy bullshit. Get over it.

Then by all means, point me to a peer-reviewed paper stating affirmative action doesn't increase racism.

Or are you incapable of seeing the logic in a knowledgeable statement?

[Kravanica]

Your daily link dosage: https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=43448

Are you so utterly narrowed in your thought that you can't contemplate something that isn't peer-reviewed? I know some mice that are better at thinking outside the box, literally.

No. You're making a claim that can be studied using Peer reviewed research. If you don't have any, your claim is just bullshit. Get over it.

I'm quite curious as to why being in the lower class would make you more likely to be less informed.

[Mavorpen]

No. You're making a claim that can be studied using Peer reviewed research. If you don't have any, your claim is Judy bullshit. Get over it.

Then by all means, point me to a peer-reviewed paper stating affirmative action doesn't increase racism.

Or are you incapable of seeing the logic in a knowledgeable statement?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

[Kravanica]

No. You're making a claim that can be studied using Peer reviewed research. If you don't have any, your claim is Judy bullshit. Get over it.

Then by all means, point me to a peer-reviewed paper stating affirmative action doesn't increase racism.

Or are you incapable of seeing the logic in a knowledgeable statement?

You're the one making the positive claim here. As such, the burden of proof falls upon you.

[New Stephania]

Naturally, it's part of the human condition (unless you're incredibly wise, which is something most people aren't, hence my point) to, when you're really down on your luck, blame other people for your problems. The person who got the job you needed instead of you because of the color of their skin or whether or not they have a vagina is the logical scapegoat. Evidently, less educated people (which like it or not, is the bulk of the lower class) are going to do less educated things, like becoming racists. It doesn't take a genius to realize this.

I'm not talking specifically about Mavorpen but I think some people are under the impression that racist people come out of the womb twisting their mustache like a cartoon villain, and that these people are simply faceless enemies with no history and no capacity to better themselves. I think these people do a lot more harm than good when it comes to dealing with the problem of racism.

[Sanctissima]

No. You're making a claim that can be studied using Peer reviewed research. If you don't have any, your claim is just bullshit. Get over it.

I'm quite curious as to why being in the lower class would make you more likely to be less informed.

Is it not obvious? Poverty has a domino effect on one's life, education included.

[Sanctissima]

Then by all means, point me to a peer-reviewed paper stating affirmative action doesn't increase racism.

Or are you incapable of seeing the logic in a knowledgeable statement?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

And... here's your peer-reviewed article. You have fun now.

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2014-09886-001/

[Des-Bal]

I've got a decent GPA and decent test scores so I receive daily invitations to apply to law schools, a decent number of those invitations specify my race. I'm not sure how not to be upset by the fact the color of my skin which we are so quick to call immaterial is having a concrete impact on my education.