Is the Catholic Church a force for good?

[The Sons of Adam]

You forget anothers possibilities :

4) God is kind but he let his kids deal the fuck outta their owns problems helping them only when they directly ask him (ie he is a normal dad)
5) God is kind but he let the men help themselve rather than relying on his help, and is only supplying moral support. (ie he is a normal dad)

If your kids start killing each other in horribly violent ways and set the house on fire would you intervene?

The fact is, we are not all his children.

And if we were, this would be likely to be true.

Read the prodigal son.
Now imagine if he did not go back to his father, because he believes his father was cruel for giving him his inheritance and allowing him to leave.

That is 70% of the human population (close estimate)

God gave humans the choice and we screwed it.

[Neutraligon]

At this point it is a threadjack, take it to the does god exist thread.

Are you kidding me? It's you who are talking of threadjack here? Still, yes, I'll stop to argue since your both biaised and narrow-minded so this whole discussion have no sense.

No I linked it back to the topic at hand, or did you miss where I said that pushing forward such a god is in and of itself not a force for good?

[The Sons of Adam]

Are you kidding me? It's you who are talking of threadjack here? Still, yes, I'll stop to argue since your both biaised and narrow-minded so this whole discussion have no sense.

No I linked it back to the topic at hand, or did you miss where I said that pushing forward such a god is in and of itself not a force for good?

Yeah forgive me, I'll delete my comments if needed.

[Neutraligon]

No I linked it back to the topic at hand, or did you miss where I said that pushing forward such a god is in and of itself not a force for good?

Yeah forgive me, I'll delete my comments if needed.

No need to delete, just move the discussion.

[Untaroicht]

With all due respect and in all seriousness, despite my grievances with the western church (like the aforementioned sack of Constantinople, though that was such small potatoes to the rape that was later inflicted by the subhuman turks), I recognize the bishop of rome as the legitimate successor to the apostle peter (though not the head of the church, mind you) and the countless good works the papacy has done over the years is impossible to ignore.

[Aelex]

Are you kidding me? It's you who are talking of threadjack here? Still, yes, I'll stop to argue since your both biaised and narrow-minded so this whole discussion have no sense.

No I linked it back to the topic at hand, or did you miss where I said that pushing forward such a god is in and of itself not a force for good?

The question isn't about God himself but about the Catholic Church, so you were threadjacking way before.

[Neutraligon]

No I linked it back to the topic at hand, or did you miss where I said that pushing forward such a god is in and of itself not a force for good?

The question isn't about God himself but about the Catholic Church, so you were threadjacking way before.

No I specifically said that the type of god the Catholic Church is pushing is in and of itself not a force for good.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Are you kidding me? It's you who are talking of threadjack here? Still, yes, I'll stop to argue since your both biaised and narrow-minded so this whole discussion have no sense.

It's a side argument that has grown to be the only thing talked about in a thread about the catholic church.

Conceivably the Catholic Church could still be a force for good if God wasn't real, so it's actually entirely irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

As for the Catholic Church being a force for good, I wish they could be, but some of their doctrines get in the way too much.

[Dinake]

First, I didn't put this in the Christian discussion thread as this is for everybody, not just Christians. I believe the Atheist/Agnostic perspective would make this a better thread. Also, this is not just a religious issue. The Catholic Church is the longest running religious and political institution in the world that continues to this day, so it is also very political.

Today, I would like to talk about the Catholic Church, the longest running institution in the world, and currently the largest Christian denomination. To Atheists/Agnostics/Protestants/Orthodox/Fellow Catholics/Others, what are your thoughts on the Catholic Church? Is it a force for good in the world? In what theological/political ways do you disagree with it? Or do you, like me, seems to agree with it 100%?

I believe that the Catholic Church is and was a powerful force for good in the world. The Catholic Church was the largest patron of the arts and sciences, and preserved much of European knowledge. Today, it is the world's largest charitable organization, and it's hospitals, schools, soup kitchens, and other services helps millions of people everyday.

I almost entirely agree with it. There are a few differences; I'm a bit more conservative, when taken as a whole. But yes, the Catholic church is by far the largest force for good in the world today.

[Washington Resistance Army]

If your kids start killing each other in horribly violent ways and set the house on fire would you intervene?

The fact is, we are not all his children.

And if we were, this would be likely to be true.

Read the prodigal son.
Now imagine if he did not go back to his father, because he believes his father was cruel for giving him his inheritance and allowing him to leave.

That is 70% of the human population (close estimate)

God gave humans the choice and we screwed it.

Right, when I screw up and make mistakes my parents try to help me in a way that I learn what I did wrong and how to avoid doing it again. So I hate to break it to you but my mom and dad are better people than your god.

But this is off topic, we can move threads if you want but there isn't really much to discuss.

[United Russian Soviet States]

They are a force for good. They hold the truth.

[Murkwood]

Are you kidding me? It's you who are talking of threadjack here? Still, yes, I'll stop to argue since your both biaised and narrow-minded so this whole discussion have no sense.

It's a side argument that has grown to be the only thing talked about in a thread about the catholic church.

Conceivably the Catholic Church could still be a force for good if God wasn't real, so it's actually entirely irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

As for the Catholic Church being a force for good, I wish they could be, but some of their doctrines get in the way too much.

Which ones?

[Nerotysia]

I almost entirely agree with it. There are a few differences; I'm a bit more conservative, when taken as a whole. But yes, the Catholic church is by far the largest force for good in the world today.

Source? Reasoning? Evidence? Or do you just like to throw out unsupported generalizations?

With all due respect and in all seriousness, despite my grievances with the western church (like the aforementioned sack of Constantinople, though that was such small potatoes to the rape that was later inflicted by the subhuman turks)

Wow, an outright racist. How quaint.

I recognize the bishop of rome as the legitimate successor to the apostle peter (though not the head of the church, mind you) and the countless good works the papacy has done over the years is impossible to ignore.

The countless abuses and atrocities are also rather hard to ignore.

(Image)

Source?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Which ones?

In the olden days, often that people in bad situations like giving birth out of wedlock were scum and deserved harsh judgement.

Today, there are three big ones:

That giving out condoms would be worse than letting the aids epidemic in Africa continue,
That abortion is wrong even when the baby and mother will both die otherwise,
And that the reputation of the church is more important than actually preventing or addressing crimes committed by members of the clergy.

[Untaroicht]

Wow, an outright racist. How quaint.

They raped nuns on the altar, slaughtered infants crying in their cradles, beheaded any men who dared to stand in their way, sold any daughters into sexual slavery and desecrated countless churches (including the Hagia Sophia). And they all died over 300 years ago, I reserve the right to call such despicable, piece-of-shit excuses for human beings "subhuman"- race or ethnicity doesn't man jack shit here and you know it, buddy.

[Dinake]

Which ones?

In the olden days, often that people in bad situations like giving birth out of wedlock were scum and deserved harsh judgement.

Today, there are three big ones:

1)That giving out condoms would be worse than letting the aids epidemic in Africa continue,
2)That abortion is wrong even when the baby and mother will both die otherwise,
3)And that the reputation of the church is more important than actually preventing or addressing crimes committed by members of the clergy.

1. Guess you didn't notice this, then.
2. That is actually the only time the church allows abortion.
3. Learn what doctrine means, please.

[Farnhamia]

With all due respect and in all seriousness, despite my grievances with the western church (like the aforementioned sack of Constantinople, though that was such small potatoes to the rape that was later inflicted by the subhuman turks), I recognize the bishop of rome as the legitimate successor to the apostle peter (though not the head of the church, mind you) and the countless good works the papacy has done over the years is impossible to ignore.

(Image)

"Subhuman Turks"? *** Warned for trolling ***

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

They raped nuns on the altar, slaughtered infants crying in their cradles, beheaded any men who dared to stand in their way, sold any daughters into sexual slavery and desecrated countless churches (including the Hagia Sophia). And they all died over 300 years ago, I reserve the right to call such despicable, piece-of-shit excuses for human beings "subhuman"- race or ethnicity doesn't man jack shit here and you know it, buddy.

Christian Crusaders did many of the same sorts of things.

And you should really avoid the term 'subhuman'. It's been historically used by extreme rascists to demonize other races, and using it when referring to people by their race doesn't do you any favors.

'Inhuman' still gets across what you want to say and doesn't make you sound like a Nazi.

[Dinake]

I almost entirely agree with it. There are a few differences; I'm a bit more conservative, when taken as a whole. But yes, the Catholic church is by far the largest force for good in the world today.

Source? Reasoning? Evidence? Or do you just like to throw out unsupported generalizations?

It's certainly the largest in terms of actual size. Besides, the bringing of millions into the light of Christ, the combating of degeneracy even as it sets in in developed countries, and the keeping alive of tradition would all justify it even if its countless works of charity didn't.

[Nerotysia]

Wow, an outright racist. How quaint.

They raped nuns on the altar, slaughtered infants crying in their cradles, beheaded any men who dared to stand in their way, sold any daughters into sexual slavery and desecrated countless churches (including the Hagia Sophia). And they all died over 300 years ago, I reserve the right to call such despicable, piece-of-shit excuses for human beings "subhuman"- race or ethnicity doesn't man jack shit here and you know it, buddy.

Oh, so you're willfully ignorant of the atrocities committed by christian armies?

[Nerotysia]

It's certainly the largest in terms of actual size.

Source?

Besides, the bringing of millions into the light of Christ, the combating of degeneracy even as it sets in in developed countries, and the keeping alive of tradition would all justify it even if its countless works of charity didn't.

Sorry, evangelizing doesn't count as charity.

[Dinake]

It's certainly the largest in terms of actual size.

Source?

Besides, the bringing of millions into the light of Christ, the combating of degeneracy even as it sets in in developed countries, and the keeping alive of tradition would all justify it even if its countless works of charity didn't.

Sorry, evangelizing doesn't count as charity.

You got that I counted evangelizing as separate from charitable works, right?

[Nerotysia]

Source?


Sorry, evangelizing doesn't count as charity.

You got that I counted evangelizing as separate from charitable works, right?

You acted as though evangelizing is equivalent to charity. Which is wrong.

[Dinake]

You got that I counted evangelizing as separate from charitable works, right?

You acted as though evangelizing is equivalent to charity. Which is wrong.

Yes, converting someone is a greater favor than paying for their next meal. No, that's not really relevant because I listed the things separately, and either one is really enough to justify my original statement.

[Nerotysia]

You acted as though evangelizing is equivalent to charity. Which is wrong.

Yes, converting someone is a greater favor than paying for their next meal. No, that's not really relevant because I listed the things separately, and either one is really enough to justify my original statement.

Converting someone does nothing. Would you have the same opinion if muslims were claiming that "conversion to islam is equivalent to actual aid?"