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by Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:44 pm
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Misley » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:00 pm
Solorni wrote:I would need to check but I am pretty sure LKE, TNI and Europeia have been around longer than any of the current big leftist regions... so I'm not sure why cormac thinks it is far more enduring.
by Chester Pearson » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:31 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:With a lawnchair and a large bag of popcorn in hand, Ambassador SaDiablo walks in and sets himself up comfortably. Out of a dufflebag comes a large foam finger with the name "Chester Pearson" emblazoned on it, as well as a few six-packs.
by Consular » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:00 pm
Misley wrote:Solorni wrote:I would need to check but I am pretty sure LKE, TNI and Europeia have been around longer than any of the current big leftist regions... so I'm not sure why cormac thinks it is far more enduring.
Presumably he's referring to the fact that socialist regions use real-world socialism as a foundation for their activities, not gameplay ideologies. Socialism as an ideology is unquestionably more enduring than the gameplay ideologies that have developed in the past thirteen years or so in this game.
by Solorni » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:16 pm
Misley wrote:Solorni wrote:I would need to check but I am pretty sure LKE, TNI and Europeia have been around longer than any of the current big leftist regions... so I'm not sure why cormac thinks it is far more enduring.
Presumably he's referring to the fact that socialist regions use real-world socialism as a foundation for their activities, not gameplay ideologies. Socialism as an ideology is unquestionably more enduring than the gameplay ideologies that have developed in the past thirteen years or so in this game.
by Josh Sebastian » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:59 pm
Consular wrote:Misley wrote:Presumably he's referring to the fact that socialist regions use real-world socialism as a foundation for their activities, not gameplay ideologies. Socialism as an ideology is unquestionably more enduring than the gameplay ideologies that have developed in the past thirteen years or so in this game.
Except that's not true at all. If we're using real life ideologies as a measure, the LKE and other monarchistic regions still win, no? Monarchy as a system of governance far predates modern socialism in a real world context. So, the concept and ideology of a monarchy is more enduring than that of socialism in both this game /and/ in real life.
by RiderSyl » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:09 pm
by The Rainbow Collective » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:10 am
Lecta wrote:Lovely to see even though cormac took on a new identity and claimed everything with his past identity is separate, that he is still attacking the same people with the same old lies he's been spreading for years, some things never change. It's also nice to know he can't be a true leftest since he didn't start in the NS left either(his claim against zenny).
Lecta wrote:That has no impact on my statement. His actions are clearly not significantly different then before despite his claims otherwise. When his identity was revealed is irrelevant. It's also worth noting since he already wrote this that he pretty much straight up lied. He knew he already wrote an article that is heavily linked to his past quarrels with various regions, but decided to claim his actions under this persona are completely separate.
Solorni wrote:I would need to check but I am pretty sure LKE, TNI and Europeia have been around longer than any of the current big leftist regions... so I'm not sure why cormac thinks it is far more enduring.
by Onderkelkia » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:26 am
by Consular » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:22 am
The Rainbow Collective wrote:Solorni wrote:I would need to check but I am pretty sure LKE, TNI and Europeia have been around longer than any of the current big leftist regions... so I'm not sure why cormac thinks it is far more enduring.
Way to completely miss the point, because that sure wasn't it. I wasn't contrasting socialism with the imperialist ideologies of the regions you cite, but rather with the sandcastle ideologies of the regions imperialists have found so easy to manipulate - namely, the gameplay democracies of several GCRs.
by The Rainbow Collective » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:35 am
Onderkelkia wrote:I note there has been no attempt to defend the downright absurd aspersions made on the character of Europeian democracy in Cormac's article.
Consular wrote:Would you care to give some specific examples and reasoning supporting them? Or is it more fun for you to just make incredibly vague snipes at regions you dislike without justification?
Consular wrote:I'll presume, forgive me if I'm incorrect, that this is yet another of your attacks on Balder.
by Corvus Corax » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:51 am
by The Rainbow Collective » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:07 am
by Onderkelkia » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:19 am
The Rainbow Collective wrote:Onderkelkia wrote:I note there has been no attempt to defend the downright absurd aspersions made on the character of Europeian democracy in Cormac's article.
You want to get bogged down in the minutiae of how the government of Europeia and the governments of its imperialist monarchist allies differ, but nobody wants to get bogged down in an argument like that with you because that wasn't actually the point.
Its government differs little from the governments of its imperialist monarchist allies
The Rainbow Collective wrote:The point is that when you get past the window dressing of Europeia it differs not at all from its imperialist allies in terms of its external policy. It is an imperialist region that indiscriminately invades other regions to project its power
The Rainbow Collective wrote:the re-branding of imperialism as "independence" have made it more appealing to other democratic regions.
by The Rainbow Collective » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:11 am
Onderkelkia wrote:The Rainbow Collective wrote:You want to get bogged down in the minutiae of how the government of Europeia and the governments of its imperialist monarchist allies differ, but nobody wants to get bogged down in an argument like that with you because that wasn't actually the point.
Actually, that was your point:Its government differs little from the governments of its imperialist monarchist allies
Your statement here very clearly refers to the nature of Europeia's government, as opposed to its external policy.
Its government differs little from the governments of its imperialist monarchist allies and the Europeian Republican Navy primarily engages in indiscriminate invasion of other communities, but the genius is in the branding.
Onderkelkia wrote:Likewise, when talking about the implications of TNP and TSP signing a treaty with Europeia, you referred to them as 'democratic communities', as if Europeia was not a democratic community itself. The internal running of Europeia (and to a lesser degree the imperialist regions) is highly democratic.
Onderkelkia wrote:The Rainbow Collective wrote:The point is that when you get past the window dressing of Europeia it differs not at all from its imperialist allies in terms of its external policy. It is an imperialist region that indiscriminately invades other regions to project its power
There are substantial differences - Europeia, for instance, maintains its TSP treaty, whereas TNI and Kantrias cut their treaties following TSP's TRR treaty.
Onderkelkia wrote:Additionally, if you look at Europeian military operations, you will find it is relatively rare for normal occupations to be justified in relation to a specific grievance arising from a characteristic of the region concerned, in contrast to the UIAF. ERN operations are generally far less overtly political.
Onderkelkia wrote:It's widely acknowledged that Independence and Imperialism are linked, in that Imperialism is a sub-variant of Independence. That means that Imperialist regions have Independent characteristics but Independent regions don't necessarily have Imperialist characteristics. If Independence was purely a re-branding exercise, as opposed to an approach based on these characteristics, then it would make no sense to acknowledge that Imperialist regions are Independent.
Onderkelkia wrote:I would further remind you that the Independent Manifesto signatories were wider than Europeia and the regions whose militaries constitute the UIAF.
by Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:35 am
by North East Somerset » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:03 am
by The Rainbow Collective » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:57 am
North East Somerset wrote:Cormac, you are so wide of the mark on Europeia it's embarrassing. You are basically arguing that any region which chooses to exercise its sovereign authority to instruct its military to invade other territories is part of an imperialist conspiracy. What independent regions - whether they be Europeia, TNP or TNI - have in common - is that they all believe they can instruct their militaries to engage in offensive exercises - without the moral approval and authority of defender leadership. Not that they are "all imperialists". What an utterly ridiculous and back-to-front argument.
by Zenya » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:09 am
by North East Somerset » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:10 am
It isn't just about ordering their militaries to engage in offensive exercises - it's about limiting regions to that almost exclusively, having nothing but contempt for those who do not, and attempting to bring as many other regions under your umbrella as possible. Unlike invaders, imperialists aren't content with just invading and letting other regions do their own thing. Other regions must conform to your standards, and that is as much true of Europeia as it is of any of the self-identified imperialist regions.
Yes, well, I suppose my rhetoric and style don't change regardless of what I'm doing. I was afraid that would give me away, and it did. Oh well. The Rainbow Collective isn't a different player, it's a different persona. I'm quickly understanding that most people, particularly my enemies, aren't going to bother to comprehend the distinction, and I'm not going to bother endlessly arguing about it. If you want to call me and think of me as Cormac Stark, have at it. You're not wrong that I'm using the same rhetoric against TCB, but what you're failing to grasp is the difference in motivation. I don't care what any of you are doing anymore except in relation to leftist regions, and it just so happens that imperialists have invaded a leftist region, Eastern Europe, because it had the audacity to maintain an embassy with another leftist region. Had this invasion not taken place, you wouldn't be hearing from me, and that is the difference.
I fail to see how this constitutes a shift in allegiance. I've always worked with the left on anti-fascist action, it's actually one of the only things that was consistent under my previous gameplay persona.
Regardless, I'm not going to engage in anymore of these petty personal squabbles with you. If you want to think of me as Cormac, do that, I don't care. But if you want an actual response from me leave personal attacks out of it, I'm not going to wade into the sewage of gameplay with you again. Only rats belong there, which is why you're so comfortable.
by Misley » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:12 am
Zenya wrote:Misley wrote:For someone who likes to criticize the fact that we talk about you, you sure do love talking about us.
Theres a large difference between me expressing my personal opinions and using inter-regional and state media to do so This is what, the 3rd or 4th article on TCB that's been posted by you and your little buddies? Not to mention the constant Zenya-related factbooks I come across (now in multiple languages too).
by Zenya » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:14 am
Misley wrote:You "come across" them because you read TI's RMB where they're mentioned, you mean?
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