People have successfully defended themselves against such attacks.
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by Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:45 pm
Shilya wrote:An attack or attempted robbery from someone with a melee weapon (knife, bat or similar).
Big Jim P wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:Ok, well, how about describing that situation like I asked for multiple times in the post you quoted. Preferably the sort of situation which could happen on a regular basis.
Describe it? there are plenty of examples of it already. Why do I need to describe a scenario that has already happened?
by Herskerstad » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:45 pm
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:47 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:Shilya wrote:An attack or attempted robbery from someone with a melee weapon (knife, bat or similar).
The person presumably has their weapon ready and is at close range. You have to ready the gun and then use it at a range where a bat would be a superior weapon. Pepper spray would be a better choice for multiple reasons.Big Jim P wrote:Describe it? there are plenty of examples of it already. Why do I need to describe a scenario that has already happened?
Because I'm not aware of these examples, can't think of any myself, and you're theoretically attempting to convince me of your views.
by WestRedMaple » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:47 pm
Tubbsalot wrote: There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:49 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:Tubbsalot wrote: There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
by Lavan Tiri » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:49 pm
by Shilya » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:49 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:Shilya wrote:An attack or attempted robbery from someone with a melee weapon (knife, bat or similar).
The person presumably has their weapon ready and is at close range. You have to ready the gun and then use it at a range where a bat would be a superior weapon. Pepper spray would be a better choice for multiple reasons.
by Esternial » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:50 pm
by Fartsniffage » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:52 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:Tubbsalot wrote: There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:52 pm
Esternial wrote:Big Jim P wrote:
True, but not external safeties. Revolvers don't have them, nor do Glocks (on of the most popular handguns on the market).
Might be better to just not sell the type of weaponry that doesn't have an external safety or doesn't require the hammer to be cocked initially.
There are plenty of firearms that do have either of those features and training yourself to take the safety off your own weapon isn't that big of a discomfort, but maybe that's just me.
by WestRedMaple » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:53 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:Shilya wrote:An attack or attempted robbery from someone with a melee weapon (knife, bat or similar).
The person presumably has their weapon ready and is at close range. You have to ready the gun and then use it at a range where a knife would be a superior weapon. Pepper spray would be a better choice for multiple reasons.Big Jim P wrote:Describe it? there are plenty of examples of it already. Why do I need to describe a scenario that has already happened?
Because I'm not aware of these examples, can't think of any myself, and you're theoretically attempting to convince me of your views.
by WestRedMaple » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:54 pm
Fartsniffage wrote:WestRedMaple wrote:
Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
If a person had a gun pointed at you from a few feet away, would you really try to draw a gun?
by Tubbsalot » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:54 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
Big Jim P wrote:No, I am correcting your erroneous assumption. I do not care if you agree with my views. They are backed by evidence. For example (should you be inclined to look at evidence of your error), see the two conveniently labeled links in my sig.
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:56 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:WestRedMaple wrote:Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
If someone's pointing a gun at you and wants to kill you, you're fucked. Doesn't matter whether you have a gun, a knife, pepper spray or nothing. Your wallet would probably be a much better option than any of those.
But if you really wanted to try, you'd probably have the best chance if you lunged at them and attempted to grapple the gun away unarmed.Big Jim P wrote:No, I am correcting your erroneous assumption. I do not care if you agree with my views. They are backed by evidence. For example (should you be inclined to look at evidence of your error), see the two conveniently labeled links in my sig.
Great. "You're wrong but I can't be bothered explaining why, just read through these giant lists which may or may not have anything to do with your question. Don't worry about the site being called 'guns save lives,' they're not biased or cherrypicking or anything like that. Peace out."
by New Tsavon » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:56 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:New Tsavon wrote:The article in the OP says he grabbed the weapon from the purse and discharged it.
That indicates that the weapon's safety was not engaged.
Or perhaps he grabbed it from the purse and fiddled with it for five seconds before it discharged. Given that the primary witness would have been the toddler, his testimony is probably not super reliable, even assuming he was grilled by the police on the exact way in which he killed his mum immediately after it happened.
by Fartsniffage » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:57 pm
WestRedMaple wrote:Fartsniffage wrote:
If a person had a gun pointed at you from a few feet away, would you really try to draw a gun?
If the alternative is worse, then most certainly. A guy I went to high school with did it and survived without a scratch.....which would be far better in my opinion than getting shot by the criminal
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:58 pm
New Tsavon wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:Or perhaps he grabbed it from the purse and fiddled with it for five seconds before it discharged. Given that the primary witness would have been the toddler, his testimony is probably not super reliable, even assuming he was grilled by the police on the exact way in which he killed his mum immediately after it happened.
We'll never know, then.
A safety takes a little more than "five seconds" to disable if you have no idea about what you're doing.Tubbsalot wrote:No. Depending on the situation, either you can't draw the weapon, or you could use a non-lethal weapon instead. There's no scenario in which a concealed firearm is a good option for self-defence.
That's ridiculous.
There are a lot of examples of firearms being used for self defense.
by Ayreonia » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:59 pm
New Tsavon wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:Or perhaps he grabbed it from the purse and fiddled with it for five seconds before it discharged. Given that the primary witness would have been the toddler, his testimony is probably not super reliable, even assuming he was grilled by the police on the exact way in which he killed his mum immediately after it happened.
We'll never know, then.
A safety takes a little more than "five seconds" to disable if you have no idea about what you're doing.
by Esternial » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:59 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Esternial wrote:Might be better to just not sell the type of weaponry that doesn't have an external safety or doesn't require the hammer to be cocked initially.
There are plenty of firearms that do have either of those features and training yourself to take the safety off your own weapon isn't that big of a discomfort, but maybe that's just me.
Both weapons that I mentioned have plenty of internal safeties to prevent accidental discharges. Modern revolvers (with the transfer bar system) are inherently safe.
Edit: The safeties on a Glock can be disabled, but that requires disassembling the gun and reassembling it with a round chambered. Anyone that stupid should be shot.
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:00 pm
Tubbsalot wrote:WestRedMaple wrote:Alrighty, your claim is obviously ridiculous, but let's give you a chance to support your wild claim: A guy walks up a few feet away from you on the sidewalk, points a gun at you, and threatens your life.....what tool for self-defense would you prefer? How is a concealed firearm useless? (Especially given the fact that it has been used quite successfully in exactly such a situation).
If someone's pointing a gun at you and wants to kill you, you're fucked. Doesn't matter whether you have a gun, a knife, pepper spray or nothing. Your wallet would probably be a much better option than any of those.
But if you really wanted to try, you'd probably have the best chance if you lunged at them and attempted to grapple the gun away unarmed.
edit: oh yeah, it's also worth noting that I asked for realistic scenarios. This is not a realistic scenario. People don't just walk up to random strangers and inform them they're going to be shot. The closest you'd get is in gang initiations, and even then, no.
by Shilya » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:00 pm
New Tsavon wrote:A safety takes a little more than "five seconds" to disable if you have no idea about what you're doing.
by Master Shake » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:00 pm
Ifreann wrote:Merizoc wrote:I'd prefer to see restrictions on firearms in houses with children, but we've also got to educate people about the dangers of these weapons. This woman clearly wasn't carrying the gun in a safe spot. Can we make sure that people know how to properly and safely carry and store firearms?
Probably not. Any attempt to deny access to firearms to those who can't or won't keep and use them safely would likely be seen as a prelude to shipping people off to FEMA death camps and establishing the Islamic Caliphate of Obamastan.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:00 pm
Shilya wrote:http://www.idaho.gov/laws_rules/firearm.htmlPurchasing Firearms
There is no state permit required for the purchase of any rifle, shotgun, or handgun.
It is unlawful to directly or indirectly sell to any minor under the age of eighteen years any weapon without the written consent of the parent or guardian of the minor.
No state permit is required to possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun.
You need to pass a test to get a drivers licence. You should also need to pass a test to get a shooters licence.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Big Jim P » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:01 pm
Esternial wrote:Big Jim P wrote:
Both weapons that I mentioned have plenty of internal safeties to prevent accidental discharges. Modern revolvers (with the transfer bar system) are inherently safe.
Edit: The safeties on a Glock can be disabled, but that requires disassembling the gun and reassembling it with a round chambered. Anyone that stupid should be shot.
Ah, I see.
Ultimately that goes to show, then, that having a gun out in public is just an extra hazard for you and others.
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