France to compensate Somali pirates

[Evil the Great]

Hell, didn't we see that some of the victims hugged some of the accused, even testifying that they never saw them and weren't involved?

What? Source?

[Galloism]

They did capture people who were found not guilty.

The french "Code Civil", the main source of french law, says shit-all about pirates. Or almost. So they were freed because the court did not know what to do. But I can pretty much insure that the guys were caught on the spot. With visual evidence of their guilt.

Then how did they convict the others?

If the court didn't know what to do, why weren't they all released?

[Evil the Great]

If the court didn't know what to do, why weren't they all released?

Those who were released were because the ECHR condemned us for placing them in custody rather than straight away presenting them to a judge. Period. They were captured when they took over Le Ponant, a french boat. I don't know how you guys managed to convince yourselves of their innocence.

[Risottia]

You don't get arrested by the french navy for nothing. That's not the police we're talking about. We don't mobilize military means to capture innocents.

Evidently the French military, just like any police force, can arrest the wrong people. Luckily France has trials by court and a system of appeal, which includes the ECHR, to amend those mistakes and pay compensation where it's due. Unlike the system you wish for.

Also, hark who's talking about strawmen. The very same who wrote that I consider piracy not to be a crime. I'm undecided between amusement and pity.

[Teemant]

Hell, didn't we see that some of the victims hugged some of the accused, even testifying that they never saw them and weren't involved?

What? Source?

I mean he calls them victims but says there was no crime.

[Galloism]

Hell, didn't we see that some of the victims hugged some of the accused, even testifying that they never saw them and weren't involved?

What? Source?

How do you have a hard time telling? They try to board the damn boat. This is lunacy lol.

They were on the boat when the soldiers came, but they weren't pirates.

Only two of them had taken part in the attack on the Carré d’As. The others had joined them when they had changed crews, and at stops along the African coast. Guelleh only arrived the day before the commando raid: he had been fishing in the area when the yacht’s hijackers told him to give them some fish, before persuading him to spend the night on board.

The end of the trial was surreal, with the victims kissing their abductors and wishing them “a new and happy life”. Delanne delivered his own verdict: “I always said [Guelleh] had nothing to do with our abduction.” The others were guilty, he said, but were just “kids out of their depth.”

http://mondediplo.com/2012/02/10somalia

[Galloism]

What? Source?

I mean he calls them victims but says there was no crime.

I didn't say there was no crime.

Rather, some of the ones in question did not commit the crime.

[Evil the Great]

By the way, just to add some sauce to my claim that French courts have become ridiculously lenient, other pirates were condemned to 4 to 8 years in jail for the taking of a french civilian boat. Some were even freed. Regardless of the fact that the incident cost a french civilian his life ( the owner of the boat ).

So yeah, Risottia, I'm not against the Republic ( natural bullshit claim when someone points out the failure of the department of Justice ), I'm against the horrible weakness french justice shows since the 1981 catastrophe, when France started to sink into some socialist idiocy while its only alternative was faux-right winger who also basically let criminals run free.
And it goes on today. French Justice has ceased to exist.

[Galloism]

If the court didn't know what to do, why weren't they all released?

Those who were released were because the ECHR condemned us for placing them in custody rather than straight away presenting them to a judge. Period. They were captured when they took over Le Ponant, a french boat. I don't know how you guys managed to convince yourselves of their innocence.

Because they were found not guilty in a court of law?

The failure to arraign timely had nothing to do with the guilty/not guilty verdicts. This is a civil suit. The criminal case is long done.

[Evil the Great]

Then how did they convict the others?

They had much trouble. That explains the ridiculous 4 years term sentences.

The end of the trial was surreal, with the victims kissing their abductors and wishing them “a new and happy life”. Delanne delivered his own verdict: “I always said [Guelleh] had nothing to do with our abduction.” The others were guilty, he said, but were just “kids out of their depth.”

I find it amazing how ridiculously this country's population has "pussified" if I daresay. Kids out of their depth don't become pirates.

[Galloism]

Then how did they convict the others?

They had much trouble. That explains the ridiculous 4 years term sentences.

The end of the trial was surreal, with the victims kissing their abductors and wishing them “a new and happy life”. Delanne delivered his own verdict: “I always said [Guelleh] had nothing to do with our abduction.” The others were guilty, he said, but were just “kids out of their depth.”

I find it amazing how ridiculously this country's population has "pussified" if I daresay. Kids out of their depth don't become pirates.

What about the guy that wasn't even there for the act of piracy?

Incidentally, by the way, children in most countries receive more lenient outcomes. It has to do with diminished capability to make decisions due to incomplete brain development.

It's biology, basically.

[Evil the Great]

What about the guy that wasn't even there for the act of piracy?

Should be released. But the others? fuck no. Lifetime in jail, I say.

Incidentally, by the way, children in most countries receive more lenient outcomes. It has to do with diminished capability to make decisions due to incomplete brain development.

It's biology, basically.

Wow, slow down. He didn't mean kids as in actual children. They were most definitely over 18. He meant kids as in much younger than himself. The owner was about 60 years old I think.

[Teemant]

They had much trouble. That explains the ridiculous 4 years term sentences.






I find it amazing how ridiculously this country's population has "pussified" if I daresay. Kids out of their depth don't become pirates.

What about the guy that wasn't even there for the act of piracy?

Incidentally, by the way, children in most countries receive more lenient outcomes. It has to do with diminished capability to make decisions due to incomplete brain development.

It's biology, basically.

How this guy got arrested then? They did arrest these people on sea (if im right).

[Galloism]

What about the guy that wasn't even there for the act of piracy?

Should be released. But the others? fuck no. Lifetime in jail, I say.

Incidentally, by the way, children in most countries receive more lenient outcomes. It has to do with diminished capability to make decisions due to incomplete brain development.

It's biology, basically.

Wow, slow down. He didn't mean kids as in actual children. They were most definitely over 18. He meant kids as in much younger than himself. The owner was about 60 years old I think.

So now you're saying the military does pick up and incarcerate innocent people?

Because that's not what you said before.

How ever will we figure out who's guilty or not?

[Galloism]

What about the guy that wasn't even there for the act of piracy?

Incidentally, by the way, children in most countries receive more lenient outcomes. It has to do with diminished capability to make decisions due to incomplete brain development.

It's biology, basically.

How this guy got arrested then? They did arrest these people on sea (if im right).

He gave (Or sold? Text is not clear) fish to the pirates at sea, and they convince him to stay the night on board. The raid happened the next day.

[Evil the Great]

Because that's not what you said before.

How ever will we figure out who's guilty or not?

Well in fact he was maybe an innocent in a boat full of guilty people, assuming he did not lie ( it's easy to say that they threatened him and that he was just a fisherman ), so that's not a bad move from the french navy. I'm not really convinced he was innocent however. And the others who were freed were guilty.


But don't worry, I don't agree with the russian approach (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF4gVGAAw-0) either. Blowing up POWs is a bit extreme, even if I do understand what these russian navy commandos had in mind.

[Evil the Great]

Also, interestingly enough, pirates are not covered by the Geneva Convention. They don't legally exist as combatants. So no one will ever sue Russia for that er, explosive behaviour.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

They did capture people who were found not guilty.

The french "Code Civil", the main source of french law, says shit-all about pirates. Or almost. So they were freed because the court did not know what to do. But I can pretty much insure that the guys were caught on the spot. With visual evidence of their guilt.

Are you kidding me? Come on, guy, get your information straight before you engage in legal arguments. This is bullshit you're spouting right there. The Code Civil says nothing about piracy, about that you are right. The French Code Civil is the Civil Law Code. You know what a Civil Law Code describes? The way contracts are meant to be made. How you sell a house. What gives someone ownership. What constitutes an agreement. That's what the Code Civil does. Yeah, you won't find piracy there. Piracy can be found in the 'Code Penal', the Penal Code, where all the crimes are listed. I get the feeling you don't have a good grasp on the subject matter.

Also, interestingly enough, pirates are not covered by the Geneva Convention. They don't legally exist as combatants. So no one will ever sue Russia for that er, explosive behaviour.

What Geneva Convention? Geneva has hosted a number of conventions, on various subjects. Anyway, pirates are covered by conventions, because they are civillians. Of course people will try to sue Russia over agressive behavior, because they acted that way against civillians. Have you ever heard of the Legality Principle in penal law? No action can be taken outside the established law code?

[Evil the Great]

Are you kidding me? Come on, guy, get your information straight before you engage in legal arguments. This is bullshit you're spouting right there. The Code Civil says nothing about piracy, about that you are right. The French Code Civil is the Civil Law Code. You know what a Civil Law Code describes? The way contracts are meant to be made. How you sell a house. What gives someone ownership. What constitutes an agreement. That's what the Code Civil does. Yeah, you won't find piracy there. Piracy can be found in the 'Code Penal', the Penal Code, where all the crimes are listed. I get the feeling you don't have a good grasp on the subject matter.

Yeah well, typo. I spent a year studying law. The two codes used to be one under Napoleon ( who created them ). That's where it comes from.

Still, french law is pretty vague on piracy, and that's an issue the media acknowledged during the Ponant affair.

Anyway, pirates are covered by conventions, because they are civillians.

No, they're not civilians. And they're not covered. Same legislation gap the US used to create Guantanamo bay prison. Irregular fighters aren't covered by anything. Hence why Bush, Obama and others won't ever go to La Haye

Of course people will try to sue Russia over agressive behavior, because they acted that way against civillians.

That did not happen. Russia also does not give a shit since its navy applies the same pirate code all navies did during the 17th/18th century. They wouldn't pay compensations either.

I don't endorse their methods but they are right to not care.

[The Alma Mater]

Still, french law is pretty vague on piracy, and that's an issue the media acknowledged during the Ponant affair.

I find this strange. France after all is no stranger to piracy.. it is not like they are a landlocked country that never had fleets.

[Evil the Great]

I find this strange. France after all is no stranger to piracy.. it is not like they are a landlocked country that never had fleets.

Yeah but that's the Ancien Régime that was really confronted to piracy. And they dealt with it the hard way. The Republic, not so much. They did not really have to fight it until the 3rd Republic's conquest of Indochina, and they did not need legal basis to do that either. The order was pretty much "kill them all and be done with it". So yeah, we tend to lack a strong legal basis. Hence the ridiculous jail sentences.

[Des-Bal]

Wait a minute, you're telling me that when someone is wronged by the legal system they are entitled to redress regardless of what they have done and that the only way to safeguard ourselves against abuses of human rights is to recognize and remedy a party's injury even if they aren't particularly sympathetic? Damned French.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Then how did they convict the others?

They had much trouble. That explains the ridiculous 4 years term sentences.

The end of the trial was surreal, with the victims kissing their abductors and wishing them “a new and happy life”. Delanne delivered his own verdict: “I always said [Guelleh] had nothing to do with our abduction.” The others were guilty, he said, but were just “kids out of their depth.”

I find it amazing how ridiculously this country's population has "pussified" if I daresay. Kids out of their depth don't become pirates.

Pussified. A nation which dies not convict the innocent, a nation that is happy for that, is a nation of pussies?

[Gravlen]

Hahaha, because we should totally give a shit. They were not harmed at all, they were even freed after serving an outrageously small time in prison... So no, no compensation. Actually this is what happens when you accept surrender from cunts. Once they realised the french navy was following them, and they stopped their boat, putting their hands up ( after an assault against a civilian ship ). I say the sailors should have blown that shit out with the frigate's 75 mm gun. That would have spared us from the epic fail, and the dishonour that followed. Stupid engagement rules, and stupid politicians...

True.

I mean pirates may take this as an precedent.

A precedent? Of what? How? What are you talking about?

[Gravlen]

If the court didn't know what to do, why weren't they all released?

Those who were released were because the ECHR condemned us for placing them in custody rather than straight away presenting them to a judge. Period. They were captured when they took over Le Ponant, a french boat. I don't know how you guys managed to convince yourselves of their innocence.

I'm always impressed with people who are determined to say a lot about a specific case even if they don't have a clue about the facts making up that case.

Just about everything in your post is factually incorrect. That really is well done. Good effort!