Apologies for Mao?

[Republic of Coldwater]

Mao's atrocities against tens of millions of innocent civilians and Chinese culture and heritage is inexcusable, we must realize how terrible state controlled economies and large government intrusion in the lives of people really are.

[The Liberated Territories]

Mao's atrocities against tens of millions of innocent civilians and Chinese culture and heritage is inexcusable, we must realize how terrible state controlled economies and large government intrusion in the lives of people really are.

Get back to work, comrade! Grain production must exceed this month's quota!

[Republic of Coldwater]

Mao's atrocities against tens of millions of innocent civilians and Chinese culture and heritage is inexcusable, we must realize how terrible state controlled economies and large government intrusion in the lives of people really are.

Get back to work, comrade! Grain production must exceed this month's quota!

Oh Hail Naw

*Draws out an Armalite (American Private Company) AR-10 Assault Rifle (banned in Communist China)

[Margno]

I'm gonna go with what independent media and my private college seem to think happened over the position of state media from a government known for censorship, human rights abuses, and "what about Tiananmen Square? It's a very nice square. Nothing happened there."

[Syike]

I cannot sleep easy at night knowing that the PRC still exists.

[Infected Mushroom]

Mao was a psychotic peasant who should NEVER have been given power.

[Bosakia]

After I learned about all the atrocities committed by communists I wonder to myself:
How in the world can a person support communism?

[Empire of Narnia]

Mao was a psychotic peasant who should NEVER have been given power.

No. He was a true hero who helped modernize China. He brought equality and prosperity to millions of people.

[Themiclesia]

I'm not really interested in the precise figure of those perished in the Great Famine, but only know that it is monstrous and abominable. Mao was a traitor to his state, which is still governing a prospering country; Mao essentially deprived mainland China the chance to be as prosperous as Taiwan is now, and her people to live as well as the Taiwanese.

[The Liberated Territories]

After I learned about all the atrocities committed by communists I wonder to myself:
How in the world can a person support communism?

By somehow thinking that after 70 or so tries that they'll get it right the next time.

[Bosakia]

Mao was a psychotic peasant who should NEVER have been given power.

No. He was a true hero who helped modernize China. He brought equality and prosperity to millions of people.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Empire of Narnia]

No. He was a true hero who helped modernize China. He brought equality and prosperity to millions of people.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

What is so funny about the truth?

[Arab Jamahiriyahs]

As a chinese i have to say topics like this are already out of time in forums in our country. People go on talking about personal psycho issues and logic and other philosophies, based on the thing that nationalists that are extreme to the point of hating anything not made in china are NOT allowed to discuss or are simply ignored, and so goes with people that praise Mao and all the others.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Mao was a psychotic peasant who should NEVER have been given power.

No. He was a true hero who helped modernize China. He brought equality and prosperity to millions of people.

No it was Deng and his economic liberalization that resulted in economic prosperity. During the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward, the economy stagnated and definitely wasn't prospering.

[Chestaan]

The only apologies for Mao that I'll accept is "I'm so so sorry".

Teach your friend what communism is, show him that brutal dictators are not only not inherent to communism but are actually counter to such a classless ideology. Maybe point to the Free Territory of Ukraine or Anarchist Catalonia as examples.

[Socialist Tera]

Everyone knows in capitalism when there is a famine it is a sad tragedy, when it happens in socialism it is a "brutal dictator" "murdering" people. In capitalism, revolutionaries are terrorists, in socialists they are innocents suffering from an "evil" regime that wants to help people.

[Republic of Coldwater]

Everyone knows in capitalism when there is a famine it is a sad tragedy, when it happens in socialism it is a "brutal dictator" "murdering" people. In capitalism, revolutionaries are terrorists, in socialists they are innocents suffering from an "evil" regime that wants to help people.

In Capitalism famine happens because of natural reasons

In Socialism famine happens because of governmental mismanagement

In Capitalism revolutionaries are not censored by the state

In Socialism revolutionaries are oppressed and censored

[Jinwoy]

Guys I hate quoting Jason Unruhe. Stop making me do it.
This.

[Jinwoy]

Everyone knows in capitalism when there is a famine it is a sad tragedy, when it happens in socialism it is a "brutal dictator" "murdering" people. In capitalism, revolutionaries are terrorists, in socialists they are innocents suffering from an "evil" regime that wants to help people.

In Capitalism famine happens because of natural reasons

In Socialism famine happens because of governmental mismanagement

In Capitalism revolutionaries are not censored by the state

In Socialism revolutionaries are oppressed and censored

"Any death under communism must be purely communisms fault!"

[The Archregimancy]

A dear friend of mine has recently discovered Communism, and is in the habit of contending that The Great Leap Forward was not the main cause of the Great Famine, and that the numbers dead in this were, in fact, 15 million or so (the PRC's figures). He essentially believes the PRC's version of events (weather being the main cause) and dismissses the work of journalists such as Yang Jisheng and historians such as Frank Dikötter.

What are your thoughts on this issue? Does anyone believe the PRC over these people? What are your experiences with apologism in general?

your friend needs to read this biography of mao. http://www.amazon.com/Mao-Story-Jung-Ch ... +biography

it is likely in your local library.

I actually didn't like that book.

It spent so much time arguing (with some justification) that Mao was an awful person that I felt it failed to adequately explain how such an awful person could either rise to or maintain power. While it certainly did a thorough job dissecting Mao's many flaws, the reader has no feel for Mao's abilities - which he clearly must have had to achieve and hold power in post-war China.

Any reputable biography of Hitler, for example (and this is directly relevant as a comparison, not a Godwin), would likely have to acknowledge that he was an excellent demagogue, and that his speech-making ability facilitated his rise to power, even while also making it clear that he was a horrific totalitarian dictator and deeply unpleasant person.

But you don't get that in the Chang / Halliday volume; you just get an anti-Mao screed that's so focused narrowly on the negatives it raises as many questions as it answers.

[Republic of Coldwater]

In Capitalism famine happens because of natural reasons

In Socialism famine happens because of governmental mismanagement

In Capitalism revolutionaries are not censored by the state

In Socialism revolutionaries are oppressed and censored

"Any death under communism must be purely communisms fault!"

It can be due to a natural cause, but government management has the track record of making a devastating famine even worse, whilst Capitalism won't do the same thing.

[Socialist Tera]

Everyone knows in capitalism when there is a famine it is a sad tragedy, when it happens in socialism it is a "brutal dictator" "murdering" people. In capitalism, revolutionaries are terrorists, in socialists they are innocents suffering from an "evil" regime that wants to help people.

In Capitalism famine happens because of natural reasons

In Socialism famine happens because of governmental mismanagement

In Capitalism revolutionaries are not censored by the state

In Socialism revolutionaries are oppressed and censored

So, famines can't possibly happen because companies mismanage resources? Yes, capitalist countries do openly censor revolutionaries, look at Philippines and India.

[Jinwoy]

Everyone does seem to forget that
a) He raised literacy levels in China, in such a way that he REWROTE THE CHINESE LANGUAGE to make it easier to understand to the illiterate masses.
b) more people were born in China during Mao's reign during any other period, iirc. If any death under communism must be attributed to communism itself, why can't we do the same thing for births?
c) he controlled his army. There's a certain phrase in my sig that shows his dedication to bringing China into the modern era by eliminating the image of the red army, so it can be welcomed by the people.

[Jinwoy]

"Any death under communism must be purely communisms fault!"

It can be due to a natural cause, but government management has the track record of making a devastating famine even worse, whilst Capitalism won't do the same thing.

So capitalism in Africa...

[Toronina]

I don't think Karl Marx would be proud of any of the so called communist leaders