RESOLVED: Atheist Airman Allowed To Modify Oath

[The Two Jerseys]

Did you enlist in the Chair Force?

Nope Army. I was sworn in from a Naval Officer though. (Strange enough in of itself).
Still very strange why they would go back to forcing that segment of the swear in.

Because this is the US Chair Force, and someone with nothing to do before his afternoon tee time was looking at the enlistment oath and said "Holy shit! Title 10 of the US Code says the enlistment oath has to have 'so help me God' in it! It shouldn't be optional!". So the USCF changed the rules to "fix" this "problem".

Like I said before, it's typical Chair Force fuckwittery. Just like the McPeak Uniform.

[Kravanica]

This is stupid. Religion needs to be removed from government and the military.

Nonsense secularism needs to be enforced on a wide scale within the military, and government to avoid discrimination against people on the basis of religion. Besides if we remove religion from the military then people will bitch about not being able to have access to chaplaincy this includes secular chaplains as well.

So... We agree?

[Antarticaria]

Nope Army. I was sworn in from a Naval Officer though. (Strange enough in of itself).
Still very strange why they would go back to forcing that segment of the swear in.

Because this is the US Chair Force, and someone with nothing to do before his afternoon tee time was looking at the enlistment oath and said "Holy shit! Title 10 of the US Code says the enlistment oath has to have 'so help me God' in it! It shouldn't be optional!". So the USCF changed the rules to "fix" this "problem".

Like I said before, it's typical Chair Force fuckwittery. Just like the McPeak Uniform.

All too true.

[Ereria]

Couldn't you just swear by Cthulhu? Are you so insecure in your belief that you can't just swear by something you don't believe in?

Yes I would, I could swear by the Christian god or the Jewish god or anything like that. It doesn't mean anything to me and if it gives me something I want, I would do it no doubt (im a muslim)

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Couldn't you just swear by Cthulhu? Are you so insecure in your belief that you can't just swear by something you don't believe in?

Yes I would, I could swear by the Christian god or the Jewish god or anything like that. It doesn't mean anything to me and if it gives me something I want, I would do it no doubt (im a muslim)

So oaths mean nothing to you. Got it.

[Intelectual Atheists]

If you look at my nation's name, you probably already know how I feel about this.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

If you look at my nation's name, you probably already know how I feel about this.

Is the misspelling of "Intellectual" meant to be ironic?

[Intelectual Atheists]

If you look at my nation's name, you probably already know how I feel about this.

Is the misspelling of "Intellectual" meant to be ironic?

Yes.

k, that's enough derailing for now.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Is the misspelling of "Intellectual" meant to be ironic?

Yes.

k, that's enough derailing for now.

It's just that if you're making fun of atheists by misspelling the word "Intellectual", then that would indicate that you might be against the man's refusal to take the oath.

[Pope Joan]

If you are called to jury duty, and are there asked to take an oath to ensure the faithful performance of your duties as juror, you may respectfully decline and say "I do solemnly affirm" instead of "I swear before God".

I have done so, and the judge was wise and courteous and accepted my affirmation.

(Mennonites do not swear an oath)

This principle has been established for generations.

So the military is wrong here.

[Intelectual Atheists]

Yes.

k, that's enough derailing for now.

It's just that if you're making fun of atheists by misspelling the word "Intellectual", then that would indicate that you might be against the man's refusal to take the oath.

It was a joke, I am an atheist myself.

[Greater Weselton]

I am just glad the oath still mentions God. They shouldn't be forced to swear by God though.

[True American States]

As a Christian its noted in the Bible not to swear oaths but to let your yes mean yes and your no mean no. Through if I was confronted with that position as a Christian I would opt to not say that phrase either. So I understand his ethics and his moral boundaries. As a former atheist however I wouldnt care about such an empty phrase anyway in the first place and I would have just said the damn thing to get it over with. If my goal was trying to re enlist nothings gonna stop me from doing just that. I mean if your willing to be potentially blown out the air what's under God gonna do for ya? This guy could be blowing up ISIS right now. Gsssh. But that's just me.

[Ifreann]

Couldn't you just swear by Cthulhu? Are you so insecure in your belief that you can't just swear by something you don't believe in?

Yes I would, I could swear by the Christian god or the Jewish god or anything like that. It doesn't mean anything to me and if it gives me something I want, I would do it no doubt (im a muslim)

Lying is acceptable in Islam?

[Ethel mermania]

technically the airforce is correct, they cant change the oath as it would be a violation of federal law to do so.

now the aha is also correct, the law is unconstitutional and they should sue to get the law overturned. the blame for this goes to congress. i hope the kid wins and gets a nice fat payday for his effort.

[Ifreann]

technically the airforce is correct, they cant change the oath as it would be a violation of federal law to do so.

now the aha is also correct, the law is unconstitutional and they should sue to get the law overturned. the blame for this goes to congress. i hope the kid wins and gets a nice fat payday for his effort.

He'll have the finest chair they can provide.

[Ethel mermania]

technically the airforce is correct, they cant change the oath as it would be a violation of federal law to do so.

now the aha is also correct, the law is unconstitutional and they should sue to get the law overturned. the blame for this goes to congress. i hope the kid wins and gets a nice fat payday for his effort.

He'll have the finest chair they can provide.

flying high in the chairforce? i didnt know you had friends in the army.

[Herskerstad]

Yes I would, I could swear by the Christian god or the Jewish god or anything like that. It doesn't mean anything to me and if it gives me something I want, I would do it no doubt (im a muslim)

Lying is acceptable in Islam?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

Taqiyya has been relative widespread in Shia history, whereas the Sunni generally go after a somewhat similar concept of idtirar.

Then again, swearing by other than Allah is committing the sin of Shirk, which, if made on the triune Christian God concept which Islam considers polytheistic would essentially turn into Shirke-e-Akbar. Which is an assured one way to hell with no return in Islamic theology. Thus am uncertain if Taqiyya extends so far as to proclaim the Christian God.

[Ifreann]

He'll have the finest chair they can provide.

flying high in the chairforce? i didnt know you had friends in the army.

Interservice rivalry is funny, and not being in any service I get to mock them all. Except the Coast Guard. You don't fuck with the Coast Guard.

[WestRedMaple]

Yes I would, I could swear by the Christian god or the Jewish god or anything like that. It doesn't mean anything to me and if it gives me something I want, I would do it no doubt (im a muslim)

So oaths mean nothing to you. Got it.

I'll swear by anything you like....how much the oath means is going to depend on what you want me to swear by.

If I'm going to swear on my honor, then that is something I'll be taking seriously. If you want me to swear by a god I believe is imaginary, then any meaning in the oath will be imaginary as well. That's up to the person asking for the oath to choose wisely

[New Chalcedon]

Some - indeed, many - atheists make their "belief in non-religion" as much a part of their self-concept as Christians do their belief in Jesus.
So why is it automatically less important to them?

Such an atheist would be a fedora tipper, I have no sympathy for fedora tippers.

I don't want to see him win, because any win for the militant secularist crowd is a bad thing, automatically.

....Wow, I can just feel the Christian love emanating from your posts. According to you, it's better that this person - who has already completed one term of service with a good-enough record to be asked to sign up for a second, which doesn't stop you vilifying him - be forced to swear a false oath and violate his conscience than have the reference to God removed. It's better for you that the Constitution be routinely violated by the same military that is supposed to defend it, than that the "militant secularist crowd" gets to "win" - a "win" that wouldn't have been necessary until the Dominionists sneaked in the change to the oath of service last year, since before then a serviceman in any branch could request the version of the oath that omitted references to God.

In short, as far as you're concerned, it's better for people innocent of any crime to suffer, than that your recent victory in pushing your religion down others' throats be overturned, because somehow that would constitute a win for the "militant secularists". As opposed to this oath's current procedure, which is 'only' a win for batshit Dominionists and therefore acceptable to you.

Jesus had a word for people like you - it started with "P". He preached that people like you had already received, here on Earth, all the reward you ever would for your grand shows of piety and allegiance to God. He preached that people like you were as whited sepulchers - clean, elegant and pious on the outside, but full of dust and moldy bones within.

Since you seem to like religious invocations, I'll leave you with one:

By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

Can you honestly claim to be Jesus' disciple?

[New Chalcedon]

So oaths mean nothing to you. Got it.

I'll swear by anything you like....how much the oath means is going to depend on what you want me to swear by.

If I'm going to swear on my honor, then that is something I'll be taking seriously. If you want me to swear by a god I believe is imaginary, then any meaning in the oath will be imaginary as well. That's up to the person asking for the oath to choose wisely

And there's the problem. I, for one, don't want the military of a country bound to obey its oaths on the force of some being that they themselves consider to be imaginary.

I'd much rather have them swear on their honour - for everyone likes to think he has honour.

He can easily report his commanding officer, because all men and women are given the choice to say the oath how they like, with whatever religious denomination they are.

According to the story, the USAF's version of the oath was quietly changed by Congress last year to remove the option of taking out the "So help me God" part.

flying high in the chairforce? i didnt know you had friends in the army.

Interservice rivalry is funny, and not being in any service I get to mock them all. Except the Coast Guard. You don't fuck with the Coast Guard.

Hey, it wasn't the Great White Airforce or the Great White Army that Teddy Roosevelt sent around the world to show that America was someone to respect, now was it?

technically the airforce is correct, they cant change the oath as it would be a violation of federal law to do so.

now the aha is also correct, the law is unconstitutional and they should sue to get the law overturned. the blame for this goes to congress. i hope the kid wins and gets a nice fat payday for his effort.

He'll have the finest chair they can provide.

Only before 1630 hours.

If you are called to jury duty, and are there asked to take an oath to ensure the faithful performance of your duties as juror, you may respectfully decline and say "I do solemnly affirm" instead of "I swear before God".

I have done so, and the judge was wise and courteous and accepted my affirmation.

(Mennonites do not swear an oath)

This principle has been established for generations.

So the military is wrong here.

B-b-but, Christian nation! Judaeo-Christian Founding Principles! Dirty atheists!

It's not obeyin' Gawd enough that made 9/11 happen, too!

[Benuty]

I'll swear by anything you like....how much the oath means is going to depend on what you want me to swear by.

If I'm going to swear on my honor, then that is something I'll be taking seriously. If you want me to swear by a god I believe is imaginary, then any meaning in the oath will be imaginary as well. That's up to the person asking for the oath to choose wisely

And there's the problem. I, for one, don't want the military of a country bound to obey its oaths on the force of some being that they themselves consider to be imaginary.

I'd much rather have them swear on their honour - for everyone likes to think he has honour.

He can easily report his commanding officer, because all men and women are given the choice to say the oath how they like, with whatever religious denomination they are.

According to the story, the USAF's version of the oath was quietly changed by Congress last year to remove the option of taking out the "So help me God" part.

Interservice rivalry is funny, and not being in any service I get to mock them all. Except the Coast Guard. You don't fuck with the Coast Guard.

Hey, it wasn't the Great White Airforce or the Great White Army that Teddy Roosevelt sent around the world to show that America was someone to respect, now was it?

He'll have the finest chair they can provide.

Only before 1630 hours.

If you are called to jury duty, and are there asked to take an oath to ensure the faithful performance of your duties as juror, you may respectfully decline and say "I do solemnly affirm" instead of "I swear before God".

I have done so, and the judge was wise and courteous and accepted my affirmation.

(Mennonites do not swear an oath)

This principle has been established for generations.

So the military is wrong here.

B-b-but, Christian nation! Judaeo-Christian Founding Principles! Dirty atheists!

It's not obeyin' Gawd enough that made 9/11 happen, too!

Oh good my favorite myth to dispel .

[New Chalcedon]

Nope Army. I was sworn in from a Naval Officer though. (Strange enough in of itself).
Still very strange why they would go back to forcing that segment of the swear in.

Because this is the US Chair Force, and someone with nothing to do before his afternoon tee time was looking at the enlistment oath and said "Holy shit! Title 10 of the US Code says the enlistment oath has to have 'so help me God' in it! It shouldn't be optional!". So the USCF changed the rules to "fix" this "problem".

Like I said before, it's typical Chair Force fuckwittery. Just like the McPeak Uniform.

If your concern is distant, with a temperate climate and good hotels, and can be solved by one or two low risk, high altitude bombing runs, please press 2 for the United States Air Force. Please note this service is not available after 1630 hours, or on weekends. Special consideration will be given to customers requiring satellite or stealth technology who can provide additional research and development funding.

^ The USAF in short.

[Geilinor]

According to the story, the USAF's version of the oath was quietly changed by Congress last year to remove the option of taking out the "So help me God" part.

How did that shit get through Congress without someone questioning the constitutionality of it?