Don't all the M829 variants used by the Abrams have muzzle velocities somewhere in the 1.5 to 1.6 km/s range?
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by The Soodean Imperium » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:16 pm
by Saphirasia » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:19 pm
The Soodean Imperium wrote:Don't all the M829 variants used by the Abrams have muzzle velocities somewhere in the 1.5 to 1.6 km/s range?
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by Krazakistan » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:22 pm
Saphirasia wrote:Firstly, the penetrator seems too thick for its length. You want somewhere in the 30-40:1 range. Also, for the velocity, that's awfully high penetration.
by Calla » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:23 pm
Spirit of Hope wrote:L (as in L50) is a measure of the length of a tank gun. Sadly I am unsure of the conversion.
by Saphirasia » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:27 pm
Calla wrote:Spirit of Hope wrote:L (as in L50) is a measure of the length of a tank gun. Sadly I am unsure of the conversion.
L = Length, divided by caliber, x times.
For ease of demonstration, I'll use the German Panzer 4, and it's three 7.5cm guns:
So the 7.5cm L/24 of the early war had a barrel that was Length divided by Caliber (75mm) 24 times. To find length, you multiply the caliber, by the division factor: 24.
75 x 24 = 1800mm barrel.
The next was the 7.5cm L/43:
75 x 43 = 3225mm barrel
The final version was the 7.5cm L/48:
75 x 48 = 3600mm barrel
Vitaphone Racing wrote:You can do some really incredible stuff in your kitchen. And I'm talking more than just a phenomenal sandwich.
Shanix wrote:Somepony really took the time of their MLP to do life?
Olthar wrote:I prefer "I Came, I Saw, I Came Again."
Rupudska wrote:Except Nightkill, of course. Nightkill has obtained a level of badassery where his pants depart his legs of their own accord.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by Questers » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:33 pm
The one I linked is the best.Krazakistan wrote:Thanks for the input guys.
Haha, first try and I'm not even close. You gotta start somewhere though.
Do you happen to have additional resources that would be helpful to me?Saphirasia wrote:Firstly, the penetrator seems too thick for its length. You want somewhere in the 30-40:1 range. Also, for the velocity, that's awfully high penetration.
Alright, I'll go thin it up a bit with my epic MS paint skills.
by The Soodean Imperium » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:41 pm
Calla wrote:Spirit of Hope wrote:L (as in L50) is a measure of the length of a tank gun. Sadly I am unsure of the conversion.
L = Length, divided by caliber, x times.
For ease of demonstration, I'll use the German Panzer 4, and it's three 7.5cm guns:
So the 7.5cm L/24 of the early war had a barrel that was Length divided by Caliber (75mm) 24 times. To find length, you multiply the caliber, by the division factor: 24.
75 x 24 = 1800mm barrel.
The next was the 7.5cm L/43:
75 x 43 = 3225mm barrel
The final version was the 7.5cm L/48:
75 x 48 = 3600mm barrel
by The Greater Luthorian Empire » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:02 pm
Saphirasia wrote:Yes. The M829A3 actually has a lower velocity than the A1, which makes no sense to me. Most of the German-designed ammunition seems to be in the 1.7 km/s range, even when fired from the L/44 gun.
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by Krazakistan » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:03 pm
by The Greater Luthorian Empire » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:07 pm
Krazakistan wrote:Thinned it up a bit and changed the stats. Excuse my terrible artistic skills, please.
(Image)
Not to scale
Stats:
Penetrator material: DU
Projectile length: 800mm
Muzzle velocity: 1,650 m/s
Penetration at 2,000m: 770mm RHA
Better?
Edit: It appears with the calculator Questers sent me the round would get 20mm more penetration if it was tungsten instead of DU. Huh.
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by Krazakistan » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:08 pm
The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Krazakistan wrote:Thinned it up a bit and changed the stats. Excuse my terrible artistic skills, please.
(Image)
Not to scale
Stats:
Penetrator material: DU
Projectile length: 800mm
Muzzle velocity: 1,650 m/s
Penetration at 2,000m: 770mm RHA
Better?
Edit: It appears with the calculator Questers sent me the round would get 20mm more penetration if it was tungsten instead of DU. Huh.
A quick glance and everything looks fine. What's the penetrator diameter? Also, Tungsten tends to outperform DU at higher velocities but I thought you would at least need to reach the 1700-1800 m/s range before W outperforms DU.
by The Greater Luthorian Empire » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:11 pm
Krazakistan wrote:The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:A quick glance and everything looks fine. What's the penetrator diameter? Also, Tungsten tends to outperform DU at higher velocities but I thought you would at least need to reach the 1700-1800 m/s range before W outperforms DU.
The penetrator's diameter is 30mm.
Imperializt Russia wrote:They told me I could be anything, so I became a razor blade.
by Krazakistan » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:13 pm
by Hasmonea » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:38 pm
The Kievan People wrote:And that is good.
Retrofitting a smaller bustle to a T-64 is quite possible though. Both Russia and Ukraine have demonstrated this.
You could also try using the Standard Turret, probably the most interesting Russian tank project that never went anywhere. It is derived from the Black Eagle turret, but was intended to be compatible with every Russian tank from the T-55 onwards. The case for it was good, thousands of tanks in Russia and abroad could potentially have been brought to near-modern standards using a common set of components, but the Omsk bureau never catches a break.
As an NS upgrade it is basically perfect. It was even designed to be compatible with a larger and more powerful gun, should the need have arisen.
by Rich and Corporations » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:53 pm
The Kievan People wrote:And that is good.
Retrofitting a smaller bustle to a T-64 is quite possible though. Both Russia and Ukraine have demonstrated this.
You could also try using the Standard Turret, probably the most interesting Russian tank project that never went anywhere. It is derived from the Black Eagle turret, but was intended to be compatible with every Russian tank from the T-55 onwards. The case for it was good, thousands of tanks in Russia and abroad could potentially have been brought to near-modern standards using a common set of components, but the Omsk bureau never catches a break.
As an NS upgrade it is basically perfect. It was even designed to be compatible with a larger and more powerful gun, should the need have arisen.
It might increase to 1300mm if you don't have to penetrate it half the time.The Kievan People wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:So, what do you guys think would about be the maximum penetration a 125mm GLATGM could get (seeing how far above the refleks I could get for my T-80UM's)?
Edit: I know Ukraine has one that gets 950mm penetration, so I guess I'm actually seeing if any can beat that.
1100mm would be plausible with the most modern SC warheads.
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by Kolintha » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:53 am
by Imperializt Russia » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:13 am
United Marxist Nations wrote:Krazakistan wrote:Would it be possible to create a KEP round with 800mm+ penetration for the 2-piece ammunition of a 125mm without the removal of the carousel autoloader?
I think Imperializt Russia said that they have a 1 piece for the T-80 (which uses the autoloader). And, also, the 3VBM??/3BM46 (3BM48 "Свинец-2"), which has a penetration of 800mm. I think I would just use the Refleks or maybe develop a new GLATGM.
EDIT: Not a 1-piece round, the T-80 just has a stronger auto-loader, so it can carry larger KEP's.
Snjorlandio wrote:Spirit of Hope wrote:Well the Soviet Union and Russia have used/are using them so i think it is safe to say they work.
That said using two piece ammunition in tern limits the size of the penetrator you can use, which means that two piece ammunition can have problems with penetration. Please note I said can, there are ways that Russia has apparently gotten around this.
so what's the benefit over single piece
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Kouralia » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:18 am
Kolintha wrote:Hullo there. I had a look at the Chally 2 when I was designing my nation's MBT and came across this picture:
(Image)
I was wondering why the side skirts don't cover up the drive wheel. Wouldn't that make it somewhat of a target?
Sorry if it's a stupid question. I'm somewhat new to tank design.
by Chebucto Provinces » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:42 am
The Greater Luthorian Empire wrote:Saphirasia wrote:Yes. The M829A3 actually has a lower velocity than the A1, which makes no sense to me. Most of the German-designed ammunition seems to be in the 1.7 km/s range, even when fired from the L/44 gun.
The A3 pretty much says "fuck speed, bigger is better" it really doesn't have a high muzzle velocity but more than makes up for it with the size of its kinetic energy penetrator. Remember, velocity is only a portion of the equation, mass and length are also important factors.
by Registug » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:43 am
Kolintha wrote:Hullo there. I had a look at the Chally 2 when I was designing my nation's MBT and came across this picture:
(Image)
I was wondering why the side skirts don't cover up the drive wheel. Wouldn't that make it somewhat of a target?
Sorry if it's a stupid question. I'm somewhat new to tank design.
by San-Silvacian » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:48 am
Kolintha wrote:Hullo there. I had a look at the Chally 2 when I was designing my nation's MBT and came across this picture:
(Image)
I was wondering why the side skirts don't cover up the drive wheel. Wouldn't that make it somewhat of a target?
Sorry if it's a stupid question. I'm somewhat new to tank design.
by San-Silvacian » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:51 am
Saphirasia wrote:
Lowest number I can find here is 1,555m/s, which is the M829A3. Highest is the DM53 at 1,750m/s.The Soodean Imperium wrote:Don't all the M829 variants used by the Abrams have muzzle velocities somewhere in the 1.5 to 1.6 km/s range?
Yes. The M829A3 actually has a lower velocity than the A1, which makes no sense to me. Most of the German-designed ammunition seems to be in the 1.7 km/s range, even when fired from the L/44 gun.
by Bratislavskaya » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:58 am
by San-Silvacian » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:00 am
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