by Crystal Spires » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:13 am
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Tech Level: FanT
by Crystal Spires » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:21 am
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Tech Level: FanT
by Sunkistodia » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:24 am
by Valrifell » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:25 am
Crystal Spires wrote:Fairly as they had assured us that gameplay and roleplay were both equally important in nationstates and thus accommodations would be made so that roleplayers and gameplayers would both be able to enjoy NS. Again many promises were made especially those to protect the integrity of our written work, but when raiders come in and delete the whole contents of the regional message board and its posts, and the links to the creative material in question, we're left with 'we keep our promises only with gameplayers, roleplayers can deal with it' which does not sound fair to me.
by Crystal Spires » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:30 am
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Tech Level: FanT
by Bears Armed » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:39 am
Valrifell wrote:Well, they can't do anything for roleplayers that can't be manipulated by Raiders/Defenders, liberations and passwords have been weaponized, so can an opt-out. Many solutions would see roleplay be favored over gameplay, which isn't really much better than the current situation.
by Great Nepal » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:44 am
Scolopendra wrote:We've hidden behind the implication of game mechanics while saying "RP and Gameplay are equivalent" for so long that this forces us to admit that, by the powers that be, Gameplay takes precedence--as is indeed implied by the regional game mechanics. We should admit it and own it, as much as it sucks in my old-timer RPer opinion.
[violet] wrote:Another general point I'd like to make--again, relating more to the fundamental idea of separating RP from GP, rather than this founder-succession proposal--is that RP regions are founded in the gameplay world. They create their own space, with a unique culture and rules, in a similar manner to tribes and religions and nations throughout history. But they're rooted in the real world and they never leave it. Whether you're a tribe or a religion or a nation or an NS region, if you create something valuable but don't protect it, the world outside will come to get it. History is littered with tragic examples of remarkable cultures brought low by brute military force. And while you can certainly say this proves there should be fewer military brutes, the fundamental lesson is that security is important. You ignore that at your peril. NationStates isn't a strict simulation, of course, but we do adhere to certain core principles of the real world, and while I don't think every region should have to spend all its time dealing with the fact that bad guys are out there, trying to get in, they should spend some time thinking about it. Because this is the nature of the real world.
by Avenio » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:46 am
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:08 am
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:44 am
Great Nepal wrote:...no, this ought to be common knowledge at this point...Scolopendra wrote:We've hidden behind the implication of game mechanics while saying "RP and Gameplay are equivalent" for so long that this forces us to admit that, by the powers that be, Gameplay takes precedence--as is indeed implied by the regional game mechanics. We should admit it and own it, as much as it sucks in my old-timer RPer opinion.
by Reploid Productions » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:59 am
Northwest Slobovia wrote:Great Nepal wrote:...no, this ought to be common knowledge at this point...
A little clarification, please: shouldn't that be "the power that is", ie. Max? I thought this was his policy. If it's just the opinion of the admins, that changes my perception of the matter greatly.
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:08 am
Reploid Productions wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:A little clarification, please: shouldn't that be "the power that is", ie. Max? I thought this was his policy. If it's just the opinion of the admins, that changes my perception of the matter greatly.
"Powers that be" is just a figure of speech, rather than a literal descriptor.
by Vaculatestar4 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:46 pm
by Nephmir » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:05 pm
Crystal Spires wrote:Fairly as they had assured us that gameplay and roleplay were both equally important in nationstates and thus accommodations would be made so that roleplayers and gameplayers would both be able to enjoy NS. Again many promises were made especially those to protect the integrity of our written work, but when raiders come in and delete the whole contents of the regional message board and its posts, and the links to the creative material in question, we're left with 'we keep our promises only with gameplayers, roleplayers can deal with it' which does not sound fair to me.
GP References
Military Gameplay
Login Script
Manual Recruitment
The 300 Endorsements of Nephmir
"100 by land, 100 by air, 100 by sea."
Mercenary of The Sable Order
Commander in Project Soul
by Geanna » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:58 pm
Crystal Spires wrote:If I may, I have taken a passive stance observing this situation, but what I have noticed in the previous several situations in which raiders attempted to liberate Haven which has proven to be an egregious attempt to divide the site or drive players off, or drive players at each other into a flamewar. I think that attempts to generate flame wars or completely threaten the balance of NS as is should be extremely discouraged, as the animosity it brings is essentially causing NationStates to be a much less friendly place for everyone. In the resulting conflicts the previous proposals were explicitly done to drive a wedge/divide between roleplayers and gameplay, and it has largely succeeded in what it intended to do, which is destroy any room for compromise in the minds of most players. I think this merely lampshades the problems in the background of NS mechanics and Gameplay Favoritism.
Gameplayers claim all we need to do to keep gameplayers from screwing up our creative work exist in the mechanics of NS gameplay, and yet Gameplayers had the gall to claim that they would use the region of Haven better than the roleplayers who were already using the region in question, which brings forth the question of whether roleplay is actually valued in NS or not? In previous invasions of roleplay regions of Greater Dienestad and Sapphire roleplayers were assured that RP was meant to occupy an equal respect with gameplay, but as we see over and over again, we are not actually given the equal respect that we were so easily assured. Many Gameplayers in the summit promised that Regions would be safe if one had a password, a regional delegate, and an active founder. Greater Dienestad had an active founder and was invaded, Sapphire had a regional delegate and was invaded, and the raiders attempted to liberate Haven and remove the safety of the regional password, which begs the question once more of when will we actually have what we requested as an opt out of the gameplay which we have repeatedly stated is destructive to our written work (which by Max Barry's promise shall be protected as our own original works) and our community which is constantly disrupted by gameplay communities?
Many people are advising roleplay communities to simply move off site because the game moderators, and even Max Barry approve of the destruction of roleplay regions, and is this what it really comes down to? Are Roleplayers and our community ultimately unwelcome in Nationstates? Is our lobby for the fair treatment of roleplayers ultimately in vain and pointless? Is the attempt to ask for fair treatment on behalf of us and asking for the safety and protection of our creative work (which again, Max promised us) also merely lip service? I am seriously concerned with how this continues to over and over again be overlooked. Are we ever going to be treated as equals to gameplayers, in which if we busted into someone else's gameplay threads without welcome and disrupted it with roleplay we would be censured as trolls and punished? So then why are gameplayers allowed to do exactly that without censure? If we look at the previous mentioned material and some of the confessions of moderators, I can see that no, we are not treated fairly and as equals, and I am looking for solutions to this in order to improve the situation in NS. I would rather stay in NS, but if we are ultimately unwelcome here as is proven over and over again by the favoritism of the gameplayers, I am wondering what the next best possible solution is. I am particularly interested in how the moderators feel about this situation, but all players are free to offer their opinions.
by Reploid Productions » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:33 pm
Geanna wrote:Gameplay has long taken precedence as Nathi outlined; Now I've been assured that Moderation is looking for a way to finally get us exempt but such won't come easily, if not then this won't be the last time we see World War 3 erupt across NationStates - as it has happened several times in the past, though it seems to get worst with each time.
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
by Blood Wine » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:22 pm
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Not everyone uses their RMB's for fluff, or chatter. Some use it for their RP. I get it. Those folks especially dislike their ongoing stories etc to be interrupted by GP'ers and their suppression of posts, chest-thumping over having invaded, and so on. Not that many appreciate invasion results overall.
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.
[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay JesusSedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:29 pm
Blood Wine wrote:Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Not everyone uses their RMB's for fluff, or chatter. Some use it for their RP. I get it. Those folks especially dislike their ongoing stories etc to be interrupted by GP'ers and their suppression of posts, chest-thumping over having invaded, and so on. Not that many appreciate invasion results overall.
fun fact:any spammer can interrupt your RPing unless you make counter measures like making a password
by Blood Wine » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:32 pm
Dread Lady Nathicana wrote:Blood Wine wrote:
fun fact:any spammer can interrupt your RPing unless you make counter measures like making a password
Equally fun fact: I never disputed that (in fact, I emphasized it), and you helpfully answered the problem, all in one go. Simply amazing how that works, and coincides with my previous statements concerning solutions that have been put in place to offer some protection to those not wanting to participate.
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.
[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay JesusSedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.
by Bears Armed » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:59 am
Reploid Productions wrote:The problem is, I recognize (and grudgingly accept) that there is no easy answer to magically solve the problem (and similarly, no easy way to ban it outright,) the oldest serving on the mod team and [violet] have been beating our heads on that particular wall trying to come up with something for over a decade now!
by Bears Armed » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:50 am
Vaculatestar4 wrote:So you want to ban us from posting our regional news?
by The Serbian Empire » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:57 am
by Lyras » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:23 am
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.
Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration
TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?
Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.
Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.
Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.
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