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by Mini Miehm » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:38 pm
by The Peoples of Xaer » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:38 pm
Mini Miehm wrote:The Peoples of Xaer wrote:I type fast.
Seriously though, I don't think the mods are going to want to put themselves into the middle of it barring a technical solution. A better use of everybody's time and righteous fury would be to lobby the admin to code this stuff to give everybody a hardcoded fix instead of try to pressure the mods to try and juryrig an ineffective and easily-abused patch on the problem.
Well let's get an ineffective patch, until the code can be written.
by Unibot III » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 pm
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Rephesus » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:42 pm
by Mini Miehm » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:43 pm
Unibot III wrote:I know roleplayers see this as "we shouldn't have to defend" and I feel the same way - that's why I defend, but I can't help but see forty passionate anti-invasion players and kind of die inside. I have to beg and plead to get twenty players+ online to try to help free a region.
Anarchy has been under occupation and unable to do anything to free itself for over five months now (150 days) because defenders haven't had the numbers to help free the region.
You know, I wasn't always a "gameplayer". I was an RPer and defending took over my time because there weren't enough people as it was to keep regions safe. It bugs me when I read these threads and all they do is hate on "defenders" as though they're one in the same as invaders and then act as though we all don't have something better to do than to try to help out where we can.
Of course, it's unfair that people are expected to fight invaders and participate in "military gameplay" whether they like it or not. I've never thought that is right or fair and that's why I became a defender. But if the collective voice expressed here, expressed it on the battlefield, defenders wouldn't have to sacrifice all of their time and who they are in NationStates to be solely a "defender" and we would stand a chance at actually overwhelming invaders.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one" - Marcus Aurelius.
by Rethan » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:45 pm
Mini Miehm wrote:Unibot III wrote:I know roleplayers see this as "we shouldn't have to defend" and I feel the same way - that's why I defend, but I can't help but see forty passionate anti-invasion players and kind of die inside. I have to beg and plead to get twenty players+ online to try to help free a region.
Anarchy has been under occupation and unable to do anything to free itself for over five months now (150 days) because defenders haven't had the numbers to help free the region.
You know, I wasn't always a "gameplayer". I was an RPer and defending took over my time because there weren't enough people as it was to keep regions safe. It bugs me when I read these threads and all they do is hate on "defenders" as though they're one in the same as invaders and then act as though we all don't have something better to do than to try to help out where we can.
Of course, it's unfair that people are expected to fight invaders and participate in "military gameplay" whether they like it or not. I've never thought that is right or fair and that's why I became a defender. But if the collective voice expressed here, expressed it on the battlefield, defenders wouldn't have to sacrifice all of their time and who they are in NationStates to be solely a "defender" and we would stand a chance at actually overwhelming invaders.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one" - Marcus Aurelius.
Seriously dude, we don't care either way. Raider or defender, we really just don't give a crap. If that's your scene, go to it, but leave us out of it. Entirely. We don't want to raid, we don't want to defend, we just want to be left alone. Entirely left alone.
by The Peoples of Xaer » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:52 pm
by Mini Miehm » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:52 pm
Rethan wrote:Mini Miehm wrote:
Seriously dude, we don't care either way. Raider or defender, we really just don't give a crap. If that's your scene, go to it, but leave us out of it. Entirely. We don't want to raid, we don't want to defend, we just want to be left alone. Entirely left alone.
I think you may have missed Unibot's point. He's in complete agreement with you, and doesn't appear to even want to be a defender. But so long as regions are vulnerable to raiding without their consent, he's forced to be one.
*insert cliche'd Dark Knight quote*
by Avenio » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:54 pm
The Peoples of Xaer wrote:Here's the thing though. Regions are a game mechanic. Tons of people RP just fine using the forums, whether they share a region or not. Unless we help the admin figure out some way to make some sort of roleplay region mechanic that's split off from the gameplay region mechanics, anything moderation tries to do is going to be infuriating flailing around like what we've seen today.
How would a roleplay region work, so that it was completely cut off from gameplay mechanics? No WA delegate? Access to the roleplay region requiring an invite from the founder (instead of a password which could be leaked?) No banject controls? No influence mechanic? Foundership set to pass automatically to the next-longest resident? Let's think about this and fire something at [violet] that'd be EFFECTIVE! And hopefully not difficult to code?
Avenio wrote:Having the mods involved means that the process would be transparent. I can see it being like the designated 'school' regions - a given region applies for 'RP region' status, the mods review the case by looking at IP addresses or what have you to ensure that the region would be used in good faith, and the status would either get approved or denied. Nations within the region would, say, get tagged with an "RP'er" label (like the 'WA Member' label now) and would be unable to move to any other region that didn't have approved 'RP region' status in order to prevent abuse by gameplayers. If the RP'ers wanted to change regions or create a new one, all they'd have to do is create a new puppet to found a new region, apply for 'RP region' status and move their accounts to it from the old region, letting it cease to exist.
by The Orson Empire » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:55 pm
by Mini Miehm » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:55 pm
The Peoples of Xaer wrote:Here's the thing though. Regions are a game mechanic. Tons of people RP just fine using the forums, whether they share a region or not. Unless we help the admin figure out some way to make some sort of roleplay region mechanic that's split off from the gameplay region mechanics, anything moderation tries to do is going to be infuriating flailing around like what we've seen today.
How would a roleplay region work, so that it was completely cut off from gameplay mechanics? No WA delegate? Access to the roleplay region requiring an invite from the founder (instead of a password which could be leaked?) No banject controls? No influence mechanic? Foundership set to pass automatically to the next-longest resident? Let's think about this and fire something at [violet] that'd be EFFECTIVE! And hopefully not difficult to code?
by Unibot III » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:57 pm
Rephesus wrote:These "Battlefields" are regions which people took time to build holding communities, not some digital fortresses for Raiders to Occupy and defenders to "Liberate".
RPers want out. They don't want protection that'll just attract raiders, they want out.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Valrifell » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:00 pm
by New Babylonia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:02 pm
Unibot III wrote:I know roleplayers see this as "we shouldn't have to defend" and I feel the same way - that's why I defend, but I can't help but see forty passionate anti-invasion players and kind of die inside. I have to beg and plead to get twenty players+ online to try to help free a region.
Anarchy has been under occupation and unable to do anything to free itself for over five months now (150 days) because defenders haven't had the numbers to help free the region.
You know, I wasn't always a "gameplayer". I was an RPer and defending took over my time because there weren't enough people as it was to keep regions safe. It bugs me when I read these threads and all they do is hate on "defenders" as though they're one in the same as invaders and then act as though we all don't have something better to do than to try to help out where we can.
Of course, it's unfair that people are expected to fight invaders and participate in "military gameplay" whether they like it or not. I've never thought that is right or fair and that's why I became a defender. But if the collective voice expressed here, expressed it on the battlefield, defenders wouldn't have to sacrifice all of their time and who they are in NationStates to be solely a "defender" and we would stand a chance at actually overwhelming invaders.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one" - Marcus Aurelius.
by The Tump » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:02 pm
by Nephmir » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:03 pm
Mini Miehm wrote:The Peoples of Xaer wrote:Here's the thing though. Regions are a game mechanic. Tons of people RP just fine using the forums, whether they share a region or not. Unless we help the admin figure out some way to make some sort of roleplay region mechanic that's split off from the gameplay region mechanics, anything moderation tries to do is going to be infuriating flailing around like what we've seen today.
How would a roleplay region work, so that it was completely cut off from gameplay mechanics? No WA delegate? Access to the roleplay region requiring an invite from the founder (instead of a password which could be leaked?) No banject controls? No influence mechanic? Foundership set to pass automatically to the next-longest resident? Let's think about this and fire something at [violet] that'd be EFFECTIVE! And hopefully not difficult to code?
Strip the region of delegacy, and give a delegatable founder status, only grantable by the founder. Also still allow passwords. Best way to do it. Screw the raiders anyway.
GP References
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Login Script
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The 300 Endorsements of Nephmir
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by New Babylonia » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:05 pm
by The Peoples of Xaer » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:08 pm
Avenio wrote:The Peoples of Xaer wrote:Here's the thing though. Regions are a game mechanic. Tons of people RP just fine using the forums, whether they share a region or not. Unless we help the admin figure out some way to make some sort of roleplay region mechanic that's split off from the gameplay region mechanics, anything moderation tries to do is going to be infuriating flailing around like what we've seen today.
How would a roleplay region work, so that it was completely cut off from gameplay mechanics? No WA delegate? Access to the roleplay region requiring an invite from the founder (instead of a password which could be leaked?) No banject controls? No influence mechanic? Foundership set to pass automatically to the next-longest resident? Let's think about this and fire something at [violet] that'd be EFFECTIVE! And hopefully not difficult to code?
I gave an example here that should be palatable to both parties;Avenio wrote:Having the mods involved means that the process would be transparent. I can see it being like the designated 'school' regions - a given region applies for 'RP region' status, the mods review the case by looking at IP addresses or what have you to ensure that the region would be used in good faith, and the status would either get approved or denied. Nations within the region would, say, get tagged with an "RP'er" label (like the 'WA Member' label now) and would be unable to move to any other region that didn't have approved 'RP region' status in order to prevent abuse by gameplayers. If the RP'ers wanted to change regions or create a new one, all they'd have to do is create a new puppet to found a new region, apply for 'RP region' status and move their accounts to it from the old region, letting it cease to exist.
by Pollona » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:09 pm
Valrifell wrote:Adding an opt-out that cannot be manipulated by raiding regions is going be a very difficult task, if it's going to be a simple "opt-out" button, what's to stop a raider region like TBR, TEK, or the countless others from having their tags and held regions "opt-out" effectively eliminating any hope of said regions to be liberated by defenders. So can someone pitch any sort of idea that would work? Because spewing out "WE NEED OPT-OUT NOW!111!!!" isn't really being beneficial to the situation.
by Avenio » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:19 pm
The Peoples of Xaer wrote:
Given the ongoing silence from the mods, I imagine they don't find it palatable. Would it really be transparent? Or just busywork? Do you really want mods, who some people are claiming have some kind of antipathy (or at least apathy) toward RP regions to be the same ones trying to decide which regions should get classed as RP regions? I don't think they're going to give us a temporary fix.
by Vangaziland » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:28 pm
by Pollona » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:34 pm
Vangaziland wrote:Based on what I've seen, the mods just don't care. They just want us to shut up and take it. In my nation, it's almost Independence Day. We should be free from having to be subjected to that foolish r/d game.
On another note, I'm an American combat veteran. I am so sick of hearing raiders and defenders talk like they are accomplished military commanders. You are not. RPers understand OOC vs IC. Just because some of you raiders can't write your way out of a paper bag doesn't mean you need to ruin nationstates.
by Arkandros » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:35 pm
by Questers » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:35 pm
Lol, owned.Vangaziland wrote:Based on what I've seen, the mods just don't care. They just want us to shut up and take it. In my nation, it's almost Independence Day. We should be free from having to be subjected to that foolish r/d game.
On another note, I'm an American combat veteran. I am so sick of hearing raiders and defenders talk like they are accomplished military commanders. You are not. RPers understand OOC vs IC. Just because some of you raiders can't write your way out of a paper bag doesn't mean you need to ruin nationstates.
by The Peoples of Xaer » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:36 pm
Vangaziland wrote:Based on what I've seen, the mods just don't care. They just want us to shut up and take it. In my nation, it's almost Independence Day. We should be free from having to be subjected to that foolish r/d game.
On another note, I'm an American combat veteran. I am so sick of hearing raiders and defenders talk like they are accomplished military commanders. You are not. RPers understand OOC vs IC. Just because some of you raiders can't write your way out of a paper bag doesn't mean you need to ruin nationstates.
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