good one.
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by Novograd IV » Wed May 05, 2010 8:55 am
by Self--Esteem » Wed May 05, 2010 9:00 am
Post-Unity Terra wrote:Margaret Thatcher gets more votes for best PM than Clement 'National Health Service' Attlee? Goddamnit.
Few thought he was even a starter.
There were many who thought themselves smarter.
But he finished PM,
CH and OM,
An earl and a Knight of the Garter.
<3 Mr A.
by Marcurix » Wed May 05, 2010 9:03 am
by Post-Unity Terra » Wed May 05, 2010 9:04 am
Self--Esteem wrote:Post-Unity Terra wrote:Margaret Thatcher gets more votes for best PM than Clement 'National Health Service' Attlee? Goddamnit.
Few thought he was even a starter.
There were many who thought themselves smarter.
But he finished PM,
CH and OM,
An earl and a Knight of the Garter.
<3 Mr A.
You realize that Attlee fucked up the whole economy, right? He led the country into years of depression. I heard about people stating that post-war Britain was less decent than during all the war years. Central planning destroyed the economy.
I would vote Attlee 2nd worst PM, only Gordon Brown could top him.
by Cabra West » Wed May 05, 2010 9:04 am
Cerpethia wrote:In the night before the general Election I thought it might be appropriate to do a poll on the best priminister of the UK. Who do you think?
by Call to power » Wed May 05, 2010 9:14 am
Cabra West wrote:Atlee, for getting the NHS up and running.
New Entropia wrote:Thatcher was a vile woman, who royally fucked over the country, decimated our once great industries, took a massive shit on the rights of the unions and working people, relentlessly attacked civil and human rights to pursue her intolerant agenda and left us with social problems that will take decades to sort out.
In answer to the question though, for me it was either Churchill (for rallying the nation to its feet even when defeat at the might of fascist Germany seemed so certain) or Atlee. On balance Atlee edges it, for building the welfare state and more importantly even than that, introduced the NHS.
by Self--Esteem » Wed May 05, 2010 9:17 am
Post-Unity Terra wrote:Self--Esteem wrote:Post-Unity Terra wrote:Margaret Thatcher gets more votes for best PM than Clement 'National Health Service' Attlee? Goddamnit.
Few thought he was even a starter.
There were many who thought themselves smarter.
But he finished PM,
CH and OM,
An earl and a Knight of the Garter.
<3 Mr A.
You realize that Attlee fucked up the whole economy, right? He led the country into years of depression. I heard about people stating that post-war Britain was less decent than during all the war years. Central planning destroyed the economy.
I would vote Attlee 2nd worst PM, only Gordon Brown could top him.
Staggering. Just staggering. Blaming the state of the economy on Attlee is... Well, staggering. I for one would blame Churchill if I was going to blame anyone. Of course, I wouldn't actually blame anyone because there was that whole 'war' thing that pretty much fucked us over well into the 50's completely independent of any economic policies.
EDIT: it couldn't possibly his (as the US would have it, not myself personally) crazy left-wing tendencies that force you to ignore all the good he did, could it?
by Post-Unity Terra » Wed May 05, 2010 9:32 am
Self--Esteem wrote:I do not care for the good he did, as the "good" he did was the reason the whole country was at it's low. His policies were the main reason for all the misfortune. What good is national health care if you are starving over rationalized food? If it was not for Margaret Thatcher, F.A. Hayek and Anthony Fisher and his Atlas Economic Research Foundation, as well as the Institute of Economic Affairs, Britain would still be knee deep in a planned economy.
by Marcurix » Wed May 05, 2010 9:33 am
New Entropia wrote:Thatcher was a vile woman, who royally fucked over the country, decimated our once great industries, took a massive shit on the rights of the unions and working people, relentlessly attacked civil and human rights to pursue her intolerant agenda and left us with social problems that will take decades to sort out.
relentlessly attacked civil and human rights to pursue her intolerant agenda
by Self--Esteem » Wed May 05, 2010 9:43 am
Post-Unity Terra wrote:Self--Esteem wrote:I do not care for the good he did, as the "good" he did was the reason the whole country was at it's low. His policies were the main reason for all the misfortune. What good is national health care if you are starving over rationalized food? If it was not for Margaret Thatcher, F.A. Hayek and Anthony Fisher and his Atlas Economic Research Foundation, as well as the Institute of Economic Affairs, Britain would still be knee deep in a planned economy.
Firstly, rationing (as in rationed) was part of the effort to claw our way out of horrendous wartime debt. Secondly, Attlee successfully turned a wartime economy to peace, kicked unemployment squarely in the nuts, handled the problems of demobilising the army and started Britain's atom bomb program. As far as the rest of your post goes, I can't even tell what the fuck is going on there. Veiled accusations of socialism don't work outside the US.
by Nadkor » Wed May 05, 2010 9:50 am
by Post-Unity Terra » Wed May 05, 2010 9:51 am
Self--Esteem wrote:Post-Unity Terra wrote:Self--Esteem wrote:I do not care for the good he did, as the "good" he did was the reason the whole country was at it's low. His policies were the main reason for all the misfortune. What good is national health care if you are starving over rationalized food? If it was not for Margaret Thatcher, F.A. Hayek and Anthony Fisher and his Atlas Economic Research Foundation, as well as the Institute of Economic Affairs, Britain would still be knee deep in a planned economy.
Firstly, rationing (as in rationed) was part of the effort to claw our way out of horrendous wartime debt. Secondly, Attlee successfully turned a wartime economy to peace, kicked unemployment squarely in the nuts, handled the problems of demobilising the army and started Britain's atom bomb program. As far as the rest of your post goes, I can't even tell what the fuck is going on there. Veiled accusations of socialism don't work outside the US.
You obviously need to inform yourself about post-war Britain. How is stating the fact that the economy was a planned one a "veiled accusation of socialism"?
True. Unemployment never rose above 3%, but again, that's worth nothing with all the rationing going on. There is a reason Labour was unpopular in the 1960s, 1970s and most of the 1980s. Besides, nationalizing key industry has never been a good thing.
by Farnhamia » Wed May 05, 2010 9:51 am
by The blessed Chris » Wed May 05, 2010 9:52 am
by Dungeyland » Wed May 05, 2010 9:53 am
by Volnotov » Wed May 05, 2010 9:54 am
by Dungeyland » Wed May 05, 2010 9:55 am
New Entropia wrote:Thatcher was a vile woman, who royally fucked over the country, decimated our once great industries, took a massive shit on the rights of the unions and working people, relentlessly attacked civil and human rights to pursue her intolerant agenda and left us with social problems that will take decades to sort out.
by The blessed Chris » Wed May 05, 2010 9:56 am
Nadkor wrote:I'm just going to copy and paste my posts from the previous thread on this topic because, well, I can't be bothered retyping:
Wilson? You've gotta be kidding me. Admirable for the general liberalisation of criminal law, I suppose (even though these were primarily the achievements of Roy Jenkins). Did a decent job in holding everything together, but seriously screwed with the economy by, essentially, ignoring the problem until it went away (it didn't). He brought in the comprehensive school system, for god's sake. Although I suppose he did try to take us into the EC.
For all those saying Attlee, he wouldn't get on the list, for me; sure, you've got to respect his achievements vis a vis the welfare state, and his general handing of a difficult post-war economic situation, but he totally fucked up decolonisation in the Indian subcontinent. OK, so he's generally respected for his management skills and for running an effective administration, but people forget that he got kicked out in 1951 because he couldn't keep his party together, let alone the country. Arguably Herbert Morrison was (as with Roy Jenkins with Wilson, and Brown with Blair) more influential in the grand scheme of things than Attlee.
Macmillan equally fucked with the economy, "a little local difficulty" my arse. He did handle decolonisation of Africa well, though, for the most part.
Churchill did a good job as a wartime leader, but as a Prime Minister he was woeful. That, and his politics were truly repulsive at times.
Thatcher...fucking hell. Don't get me started on that.
...
I'm not arguing in favour of Major being regarded as one of the best PMs ever, although he did a quite admirable job in somehow maintaining what he could of his majority post-1992, but answer me this without looking it up: which PM (and in this ignore the constituency system and take it as meaning an aggregate of all votes in all constituencies in a particular election) got the greatest number of votes in one election?
...
The problem for Chamberlain is that the victors write the history, and the victor was Churchill. For Chamberlain to have acted in any other way would have been madness, and would most likely have led to the total destruction of the UK. By delaying a war which he must surely have known was inevitable until Britain was in some way equipped to fight it he ensured that we didn't get annihilated. If Britain had been occupied by Germany, there would have been no launch pad for a US invasion of Europe, and everything would look a little different.
Chamberlain acted as he did because he simply had to; to have acted any other way at the time would have been our downfall. Unfortunately history has not been kind to poor Neville. If any PM deserves our contempt for appeasement it's Baldwin.
by Belkovsky Island » Wed May 05, 2010 10:04 am
by Novograd IV » Wed May 05, 2010 10:06 am
by Port Angus » Wed May 05, 2010 10:07 am
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