I don't know. But then I don't know what Saturn looks like either because I haven't experienced it.
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by Holy Roman United Christiandom » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:43 pm
by -Arabiyyah- » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:44 pm
by Pandeeria » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:44 pm
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Neutraligon » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:44 pm
by -Arabiyyah- » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:45 pm
by MERIZoC » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:45 pm
-Arabiyyah- wrote:Shaytan is very real fear him. He will Cause us all to do sin. The most noble wrong because of him except the infillables.He is there he can take many forms by using his demons they walk among us doing evil. They are politicians bankers lawyers students professors coworkers they will tempt you to sin. But resist and live only for the will of Allah(SWT).
by Vazdania » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:45 pm
Holy Roman United Christiandom wrote:So, I was thinking for a while, and I wondered if people conceive of Satan as a real thing or unreal. Now, for my own part and from a Christian point of view, I conceive as Satan as very real and the chief tempter of humankind. So I ask you, O NSers, do you believe or feel that Satan is real ? If you don't believe in Satan because you are of another religion or philosophy, do you have a figure or force of evil in your religion or philosophy ?
by Pandeeria » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:46 pm
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Eastern Equestria » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:46 pm
by Vazdania » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:47 pm
-Arabiyyah- wrote:Shaytan is very real fear him. He will Cause us all to do sin. The most noble wrong because of him except the infillables.He is there he can take many forms by using his demons they walk among us doing evil. They are politicians bankers lawyers students professors coworkers they will tempt you to sin. But resist and live only for the will of Allah(SWT).
by Pandeeria » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:47 pm
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Neutraligon » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:47 pm
by A War Lord » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:48 pm
“What Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they could 'be like gods'—could set up on their own as if they had created themselves...invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside God, apart from God. And out of that hopeless attempt has come nearly all that we call human history—money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.”
If Dualism is true, then the bad Power must be a being who likes badness for its own sake. But in reality we have no experience of anyone liking badness just because it is bad. The nearest we can get to it is in cruelty. But in real life people are cruel for one of two reasons- either because they are sadists, that is, because they have a sexual perversion which makes cruelty a cause of sensual pleasure to them, or else for the sake of something they are going to get out of it-money, or power, or safety. But pleasure, money, power, and safety are all, as far as they go, good things. The badness consists in pursuing them by the wrong method, or in the wrong way, or too much. I do not mean, of course, that the people who do this are not desperately wicked. I do mean that wickedness, when you examine it, turns out to be the pursuit of some good in the wrong way. You can be good for the mere sake of goodness: you cannot be bad for the mere sake of badness. You can do a kind action when you are not feeling kind and when it gives you no pleasure, simply because kindness is right; but no one ever did a cruel action simply because cruelty is wrong-only because cruelty was pleasant or useful to him. In other words badness cannot succeed even in being bad in the same way in which goodness is good. Goodness is, so to speak, itself: badness is only spoiled goodness. And there must be something good first before it can be spoiled. We called sadism a sexual perversion; but you must first have the idea of a normal sexuality before you can talk of its being perverted; and you can see which is the perversion, because you can explain the perverted from the normal, and cannot explain the normal from the perverted. It follows that this Bad Power, who is supposed to be on an equal footing with the Good Power, and to love badness in the same way as the Good Power loves goodness, is a mere bogy. In order to be bad he must have good things to want and then to pursue in the wrong way: he must have impulses which were originally good in order to be able to pervert them. But if he is bad he cannot supply himself either with good things to desire or with good impulses to pervert. He must be getting both from the Good Power. And if so, then he is not independent. He is part of the Good Power's world: he was made either by the Good Power or by some power above them both
by Neutraligon » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:48 pm
by Holy Roman United Christiandom » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:48 pm
by Benuty » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:49 pm
by Pandeeria » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:49 pm
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Vazdania » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:50 pm
by The Serbian Empire » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:50 pm
by -Arabiyyah- » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:50 pm
by MERIZoC » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:50 pm
A War Lord wrote:“What Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they could 'be like gods'—could set up on their own as if they had created themselves...invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside God, apart from God. And out of that hopeless attempt has come nearly all that we call human history—money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery—the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.”
With that said, yes, I do very much think he exists but, like God and Christianity in general, very few people on NS really understand what this concept is all about. As a few people have already quipped in various manners, he cant exist as an equal force against God and he can't exist if God controls all. That is logically unsound, I know.
However, to be bad, the Devil must exist and have intelligence and will. But existence, intelligence and will are in themselves good. Therefore he must be getting them from the Good Power: even to be bad he must borrow or steal from his opponent. And that is why Christianity has always said that the devil is a fallen angel. Evil is a parasite, not an original thing. The powers which enable evil to carry on are powers given it by goodness. All the things which enable a bad man to be effectively bad are in themselves good things-resolution, cleverness, good looks, existence itself.
That is whyin a strict sense, will not work.If Dualism is true, then the bad Power must be a being who likes badness for its own sake. But in reality we have no experience of anyone liking badness just because it is bad. The nearest we can get to it is in cruelty. But in real life people are cruel for one of two reasons- either because they are sadists, that is, because they have a sexual perversion which makes cruelty a cause of sensual pleasure to them, or else for the sake of something they are going to get out of it-money, or power, or safety. But pleasure, money, power, and safety are all, as far as they go, good things. The badness consists in pursuing them by the wrong method, or in the wrong way, or too much. I do not mean, of course, that the people who do this are not desperately wicked. I do mean that wickedness, when you examine it, turns out to be the pursuit of some good in the wrong way. You can be good for the mere sake of goodness: you cannot be bad for the mere sake of badness. You can do a kind action when you are not feeling kind and when it gives you no pleasure, simply because kindness is right; but no one ever did a cruel action simply because cruelty is wrong-only because cruelty was pleasant or useful to him. In other words badness cannot succeed even in being bad in the same way in which goodness is good. Goodness is, so to speak, itself: badness is only spoiled goodness. And there must be something good first before it can be spoiled. We called sadism a sexual perversion; but you must first have the idea of a normal sexuality before you can talk of its being perverted; and you can see which is the perversion, because you can explain the perverted from the normal, and cannot explain the normal from the perverted. It follows that this Bad Power, who is supposed to be on an equal footing with the Good Power, and to love badness in the same way as the Good Power loves goodness, is a mere bogy. In order to be bad he must have good things to want and then to pursue in the wrong way: he must have impulses which were originally good in order to be able to pervert them. But if he is bad he cannot supply himself either with good things to desire or with good impulses to pervert. He must be getting both from the Good Power. And if so, then he is not independent. He is part of the Good Power's world: he was made either by the Good Power or by some power above them both.
But I freely admit that real Christianity (as distinct from Christianity-and-water) goes much nearer to Dualism than people think. One of the things that surprised me when I first read the New Testament seriously was that it talked so much about a Dark Power in the universe-a mighty evil spirit who was held to be the Power behind death and disease, and sin. The difference is that Christianity thinks this Dark Power was created by God, and was good when he was created, and went wrong. Christianity agrees with Dualism that this universe is at war. But it does not think this is a war between independent powers. It thinks it is a civil war, a rebellion, and that we are living in a part of the universe occupied by the rebel.
Sources: C.S Lewis, Mere Chrstianity
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