[PASSED] LIBERATE HOGWARTS

[Sedgistan]

The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING that throughout history several iterations of the region Hogwarts have existed in this world since 2003;

ACKNOWLEDGING that the latest iteration was created through a refound by the condemned invader group the Lone Wolves United, with the assistance of other invaders including: the twice-condemned The Black Riders, The Brotherhood of Malice, Unknown and the United Imperial Armed Forces;

REGRETTING the invasion and refound of Hogwarts by the Lone Wolves United, which saw a password imposed on the region and a purge of all native residents, when that previous iteration of Hogwarts had persisted with the same founder since 2008, with that founder being delegate of Hogwarts back in early 2005;

DECLARING that these natives, including former delegate Gryffidor, Darth Lord Proctos, and others purged by Lone Wolves United are the true natives due to their history with the region and their non-violent, peaceful nature;

HOPING that Hogwarts can maintain its history of being a free, open, and peaceful region in the spirit of the community for which it is named and has persisted in some form or fashion since 2003;

BELIEVING that the invader culture of the Lone Wolves United is a threat to this hope, and that another refound on the part of the Lone Wolves United would close the region off from its true native population once again;

ASSERTING that no region should fall victim to an invasion and purge as Hogwarts has at the hands of the Lone Wolves United, who only seek to employ the region as a puppet territory for the further aggrandizement and expansion of their condemned empire;

DESIRING to make another refound of Hogwarts as difficult as possible for the Lone Wolves United so that the region may be given a fighting chance to survive as an independent, free and peaceful entity as it has for most of its history;

HEREBY Liberates Hogwarts.

Feedback would be appreciated.

[Venico]

There's no delegate imposed password. Does nothing. Good try.

[Hobbesistan]

A resolution to strike down Delegate-imposed barriers to free entry in a region.

Delegate-imposed barriers to free entry in a region.


There are no Delegate Imposed Barriers (password), therefor, no basis for this proposal.

It's not really that badly written, though.

[New Harry Potter]

DESIRING to make another refound of Hogwarts as difficult as possible for the Lone Wolves United so that the region may be given a fighting chance to survive as an independent, free and peaceful entity as it has for most of its history,

If we wait for the password to be there, then it will be too late to really make the refound difficult.

By the time they put up a password and all the days it takes to move through the SC, they will have full control over the region and be able to refound it with much greater ease.

So, shouldn't we do this now, as a preemptive measure?

Also I got a telegram from a raider saying that "refound" is an illegal term, is this true and if so what should I replace it with? I don't have the greatest SC experience so any help on this is appreciated, thank you!

[Venico]

They're not going to refound it. They're going to revive the founder.

[Fratt Armed Forces]

Who are you, what are your motives, and are there any living "natives" who have expressed support for this measure?

[Venico]

I'm a native who opposes this.

[Topid]

Heh, I wonder what happened to their founder. I hope you can find a former delegate or something, because this would be hilarious.

It looks like Dumbledores Army may be their successor region.

[Cormac A Stark]

This would be a total waste of the Security Council's time. As soon as the person who owns the Founder account can be contacted, the Founder account will be restored to the region and this resolution will be superfluous. Even if that takes a while, the region can be held until that point without any need for password protection.

If you want to waste the Security Council's time, be my guest.

[New Harry Potter]

Fratt, both Gryffidor (former delegate of Hogwarts under the pre-LWU founder), Darth Lord Proctos, and one other have expressed animosity towards the LWU occupation.

Gryffidor CTEd in the same neighborhood as the LWU founder, but was against their refound and would support this I believe. You can see his posts on the RMB.

My motivation is simply to prevent another refound by the Lone Wolves United, who I believe said that their founder was deleted by the mods, not that it was being revived.

If you look up Bellatrix Lestrange in the Boneyard you get:

Former nation Bellatrix Lestrange
Founded: Mon Apr 7 2014
Ceased to exist: Sun May 11 2014
Population: 144 million
Ancient nation Bellatrix Lestrange
Founded: Fri Jan 19 2007
Last activity: Mon Jan 29 2007
Population: 167 million
Disgraced: This name was soiled by a former nation.

Isn't that what you get when you are mod-deleted?

If they really believed they can just get their founder back, why are they piling in there with high influence as if they are going to refound again? One of the pilers there suggested the founder had been deleted by the "Defendermods" and the delegate concurred with this, so I am going to assume it (the founder) was deleted, not that it went inactive. This isn't hard to contemplate given how raiders behave.

I think this "just wait for our founder to come back" is all a ruse to get us to wait long enough for them to refound it again, which is why I think if this proposal looks okay it should be passed now.

[Hobbesistan]

Fratt, both Gryffidor (former delegate of Hogwarts under the pre-LWU founder), Darth Lord Proctos, and one other have expressed animosity towards the LWU occupation.

Gryffidor CTEd in the same neighborhood as the LWU founder, but was against their refound and would support this I believe. You can see his posts on the RMB.

My motivation is simply to prevent another refound by the Lone Wolves United, who I believe said that their founder was deleted by the mods, not that it was being revived.

If you look up Bellatrix Lestrange in the Boneyard you get:

Former nation Bellatrix Lestrange
Founded: Mon Apr 7 2014
Ceased to exist: Sun May 11 2014
Population: 144 million
Ancient nation Bellatrix Lestrange
Founded: Fri Jan 19 2007
Last activity: Mon Jan 29 2007
Population: 167 million
Disgraced: This name was soiled by a former nation.

Isn't that what you get when you are mod-deleted?

If they really believed they can just get their founder back, why are they piling in there with high influence as if they are going to refound again? One of the pilers there suggested the founder had been deleted by the "Defendermods" and the delegate concurred with this, so I am going to assume it (the founder) was deleted, not that it went inactive. This isn't hard to contemplate given how raiders behave.

I think this "just wait for our founder to come back" is all a ruse to get us to wait long enough for them to refound it again, which is why I think if this proposal looks okay it should be passed now.

Look at the first entrance, the nation was re-founded by someone else, no, it's not mod-deleted.

[Land filled with People]

Look at the first entrance, the nation was re-founded by someone else, no, it's not mod-deleted.

How do you figure that? If the 2007 nation was disgraced, then surely the 2014 nation couldn't have been founded in the first place?

[Hobbesistan]

Look at the first entrance, the nation was re-founded by someone else, no, it's not mod-deleted.

How do you figure that? If the 2007 nation was disgraced, then surely the 2014 nation couldn't have been founded in the first place?

'Ancient' means the nation is no longer eligable to be refounded, 'Former' means that the nation can still be refounded and can not be taken.

The only time a disgraced nation can not be (re)founded is when its name is why it was DEATd, i.e racist nationnames/ect, othertimes its just for conduct.

If we follow the OPs definition that the founder was deleted in 2007 and 'could not of possibly came back', then that means that the regions been founderless from the same founder for 7 years, Which would mean that the region would have no founder as the founder is no longer eligable to be refounded, so it would just display WA delegate (Example: Space)

As long as Founder: (cte'd nation here) is visible below World Assembly Delegate, the ability to refound it technically still exists.

[Land filled with People]

How do you figure that? If the 2007 nation was disgraced, then surely the 2014 nation couldn't have been founded in the first place?

'Ancient' means the nation is no longer eligable to be refounded, 'Former' means that the nation can still be refounded and can not be taken.

The only time a disgraced nation can not be (re)founded is when its name is why it was DEATd, i.e racist nationnames/ect, othertimes its just for conduct.

If we follow the OPs definition that the founder was deleted in 2007 and 'could not of possibly came back', then that means that the regions been founderless from the same founder for 7 years, Which would mean that the region would have no founder as the founder is no longer eligable to be refounded, so it would just display WA delegate (Example: Space)

As long as Founder: (cte'd nation here) is visible below World Assembly Delegate, the ability to refound it technically still exists.

You cannot create a region (inadvertently or not) that will look like Space, or any other true founderless region. That era ended ~10 (11?) years ago.

"Technically" yes, in practice only the mods can do so (unless they rescind your punishment). Otherwise I'm sure Sirlopolis would come back to boot TBR from Silver Isles.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=139161&p=7086706#p7086706

Mod-deated nations are non-refoundable. "Disgraced" indicates mod deletion. Hence the founder cannot be refounded.

[Topid]

Actually The Blood Cave was created inadvertently since then and looks like Space, but that was a fluke for sure.

There aren't many historically founderless regions left, there was less than 50 when St A took off and we've lost at least two this year.

But yeah, the founder could come back. Which is why I find the 16 endorsements on the delegate to be interesting.

[Cormac A Stark]

I would think the reason behind the 16 endorsements would be obvious: It's to prevent invasion of a Lone Wolves United colony by defenders.

I said the Founder can be contacted, I didn't say we were having an easy time of it. It's taking more time than expected and thus the region is being protected by Lone Wolves United and friendly forces until the Founder is revived. But the region can be simply held indefinitely, without need of a Delegate-imposed password, so a Liberation resolution would quite literally be a waste of time and effort.

In fact if defenders have any plans to invade, a Liberation would be counter-productive as the only way to ensure LWU control of the region is removed is by refounding it, which will require a password. So again, if you want to pass a Liberation, I'm for it.

[Sedgistan]

Look at the first entrance, the nation was re-founded by someone else, no, it's not mod-deleted.

How do you figure that? If the 2007 nation was disgraced, then surely the 2014 nation couldn't have been founded in the first place?

Correct. The 2014 nation was mod-deleted as belonging to a DOS player, and neither the nation nor the player will be coming back.

[Astarial]

'Ancient' means the nation is no longer eligable to be refounded, 'Former' means that the nation can still be refounded and can not be taken.

While the former description is technically accurate, the second one is not. From what I can tell poking around in the boneyard, "Former" means it CTE'd through some means (either natural or modly), and "Ancient" means it CTE'd and has since been recreated by another player. So yes, an Ancient nation cannot be refounded, but there are plenty of Former nations that can't either.

The only time a disgraced nation can not be (re)founded is when its name is why it was DEATd, i.e racist nationnames/ect, othertimes its just for conduct.

If we follow the OPs definition that the founder was deleted in 2007 and 'could not of possibly came back', then that means that the regions been founderless from the same founder for 7 years, Which would mean that the region would have no founder as the founder is no longer eligable to be refounded, so it would just display WA delegate (Example: Space)

As long as Founder: (cte'd nation here) is visible below World Assembly Delegate, the ability to refound it technically still exists.

Pretty sure that first part's not true. Modbombed nations are ineligible for recreation ever, as I understand it. And the second part doesn't even make any sense, and definitely isn't true. References to deleted nations carry on within the game - the only alternative would be to suggest that getting a founder modbombed is a method of creating a historically ("historically") founderless region. SPACE is an example of such a region, unless erasure of references occurs when a nation is recreated, in which case it could be an example of that (though I highly doubt it). But it's absolutely not an example of soiling.

Or in other words, if a nation is soiled, it always occurred in its most recent incarnation.

[New Harry Potter]

How do you figure that? If the 2007 nation was disgraced, then surely the 2014 nation couldn't have been founded in the first place?

Correct. The 2014 nation was mod-deleted as belonging to a DOS player, and neither the nation nor the player will be coming back.

Well then, given that this is the case, is this resolution ready to be proposed?

Since their founder is not coming back, I am guessing it would be correct to say that passing this now would be a good thing to prevent another refound attempt, or rather, to make another refound attempt by Lone Wolves United more difficult. More feedback on this would be appreciated, but in light of the facts as provided by Sedgistan, I think I will want to move this to a vote today if there are no glaring issues - the Lone Wolves United delegate is already at high influence levels.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Correct. The 2014 nation was mod-deleted as belonging to a DOS player, and neither the nation nor the player will be coming back.

Well then, given that this is the case, is this resolution ready to be proposed?

Since their founder is not coming back, I am guessing it would be correct to say that passing this now would be a good thing to prevent another refound attempt, or rather, to make another refound attempt by Lone Wolves United more difficult. More feedback on this would be appreciated, but in light of the facts as provided by Sedgistan, I think I will want to move this to a vote today if there are no glaring issues - the Lone Wolves United delegate is already at high influence levels.

The region belongs to Lone Wolves United. The former residents lost their claim to it and have since moved on or CTE. This resolution is pointless.

[Evil Wolf]

There is a reason why all the LWU in Hogwarts have a high level of influence, and that reason is because Hogwarts is our region and we are its natives.

If it was simply our trophy, we would have abandoned it when the founder CTE'd, but stood our ground, we fought against the Fendas who wished to take our region from us and we won it. Hogwarts is ours, we will protect it, and we will defend it. In Hogwarts' history, when others fled or gave up on Hogwarts under simple invasion, we stand alone in our willingness to fight to protect the region.

Hogwarts has no other natives, no others masters but us, because it is our region and we will fight to protect it from this Fenda invasion.

This we'll defend.

[Topid]

It's impressive how quick the raider/imperialist talking points and tone can change.

Thanks for the clarification Sedge.

If you would like me to help campaign for this or anything else let me know. I'm fully on board here.

[Mallorea and Riva]

It's impressive how quick the raider/imperialist talking points and tone can change.

Thanks for the clarification Sedge.

If you would like me to help campaign for this or anything else let me know. I'm fully on board here.

And of course raiders can't be natives. Typical defender hypocrisy.

[Evil Wolf]

Well, for Topid this isn't about justice or the ideals of Defenderism. He doesn't really care about Hogwarts or its fate.

For Topid, this is about vengeance and spite against Lone Wolves United. Pure and simple.

[Topid]

One does not lose native status by being ejected. If LWU had never shown up some of the nations in Dumbledore's Army would still be in Hogwarts. That makes this a really easy call.

And though you never seem to believe it, I've said this a million times, you are my favourite raider EW, and LWU is the last raider org I'd be "out to get". Well, LWU or Blue Moon, but Blue Moon is rarely even mentioned around here anymore. Anyway, there's nothing personal here on my end.