Rep: Democrats should come out against the 2nd amendment

[Gaelic Celtia]

And what about Switzerland?

Also they are not ripping property out of their citizens hands

You do realize all Swiss men are required to have military training and the US has a lot more guns per capita than Switzerland.

I was making a point that switzerland has high ownership rates and also has low gun crime

Plus I'm mostly playing devils advocate. I support practical regulation methods, jus not taking away every gun in the US

[Gaelic Celtia]

They also have one of the highest gun ownership per capita.

Because every individual serves the army. Furthermore, the ownership is rapidly decreasing and guns are being taken out of households altogether to be placed in depots because guns in households actually have a higher chance of leading to harm than helping you.

Which is a very practical idea, and I admit I did not know about the decrease

[God Kefka]

thanks.

It's true though I mean if you think about it, very few Americans think of their Constitution that way. It's like they think it was written by saints and should never be changed or something...

the whole context of the 2nd Amendment isn't even relevant now. The US is no longer a colony in rebellion in an age with muskets in need of improvised militias to fight red coats...

the times have changed.

But the need for self-defense has not.

well people living in other developed countries where guns are banned and where crime is lower don't seem to miss the right to ''self-defense''... but they sure like to look over the American border and frown...

''What is wrong with these Americans and their gun rights? Just ban the guns...''

See I bring an international perspective to this problem. For many Americans, it's UNTHINKABLE that guns should be taken away and it's almost as if doing so would immediately lead to crime sprees or tyranny. Yet the vast majority of functioning democratic countries have both less guns, a close to complete ban on guns, and less crime... an no tyranny either.

[Ainin]

Highly developed economy and advanced technological infrastructure. Apparently Russia isn't a developed nation, according to the UN.

So if their not developed or developing what the hell are they?

Actually, they are developing, as classified by the International Monetary Fund.

[Blazedtown]

So if their not developed or developing what the hell are they?

Transition economies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_economy

I'm sorry but that just seems like a rather bullshit way of classifying countries. To claim that one of the most powerful countries in the world is not a developed country is just outright false. But then again, that's the UN for you.

[Gaelic Celtia]

But the need for self-defense has not.

well people living in other developed countries where guns are banned and where crime is lower don't seem to miss the right to ''self-defense''... but they sure like to look over the American border and frown...

''What is wrong with these Americans and their gun rights? Just ban the guns...''

See I bring an international perspective to this problem. For many Americans, it's UNTHINKABLE that guns should be taken away and it's almost as if doing so would immediately lead to crime sprees or tyranny. Yet the vast majority of functioning democratic countries have both less guns, a close to complete ban on guns, and less crime... an no tyranny either.

Like it or not, the us has a history of gun ownership due to the BoR. Most countries do not have it in their constitutions thus making strict control far easier to implement

[God Kefka]

well people living in other developed countries where guns are banned and where crime is lower don't seem to miss the right to ''self-defense''... but they sure like to look over the American border and frown...

''What is wrong with these Americans and their gun rights? Just ban the guns...''

See I bring an international perspective to this problem. For many Americans, it's UNTHINKABLE that guns should be taken away and it's almost as if doing so would immediately lead to crime sprees or tyranny. Yet the vast majority of functioning democratic countries have both less guns, a close to complete ban on guns, and less crime... an no tyranny either.

Like it or not, the us has a history of gun ownership due to the BoR. Most countries do not have it in their constitutions thus making strict control far easier to implement

yeah... which is why I don't like the constitution because it so often stands in the way of progress.

By the way, what's a BoR?

[Mavorpen]

well people living in other developed countries where guns are banned and where crime is lower don't seem to miss the right to ''self-defense''... but they sure like to look over the American border and frown...

''What is wrong with these Americans and their gun rights? Just ban the guns...''

See I bring an international perspective to this problem. For many Americans, it's UNTHINKABLE that guns should be taken away and it's almost as if doing so would immediately lead to crime sprees or tyranny. Yet the vast majority of functioning democratic countries have both less guns, a close to complete ban on guns, and less crime... an no tyranny either.

Like it or not, the us has a history of gun ownership due to the BoR. Most countries do not have it in their constitutions thus making strict control far easier to implement

Also, he's wrong that Singapore doesn't have guns. It does have guns. It just has extensive regulation to obtain a license. Once you get a license, you can get pretty much whatever type you want.

[Geilinor]

Transition economies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_economy

I'm sorry but that just seems like a rather bullshit way of classifying countries. To claim that one of the most powerful countries in the world is not a developed country is just outright false. But then again, that's the UN for you.

Have you seen Russia's life expectancy stats? Economy is not the only factor the UN uses. Russia's GDP per capita and education are fine.

[Gaelic Celtia]

Like it or not, the us has a history of gun ownership due to the BoR. Most countries do not have it in their constitutions thus making strict control far easier to implement

yeah... which is why I don't like the constitution because it so often stands in the way of progress.

By the what's, what's a BoR?

Maybe in some aspects. And its the Bill of Rights.

[God Kefka]

Like it or not, the us has a history of gun ownership due to the BoR. Most countries do not have it in their constitutions thus making strict control far easier to implement

Also, he's wrong that Singapore doesn't have guns. It does have guns. It just has extensive regulation to obtain a license. Once you get a license, you can get pretty much whatever type you want.

it's close to an effective complete ban... licenses are rare am i rite?

Does the percentage of firearm owners even make up 1% of the population?

It's de facto banned.

[God Kefka]

yeah... which is why I don't like the constitution because it so often stands in the way of progress.

By the what's, what's a BoR?

Maybe in some aspects. And its the Bill of Rights.

oh i see

[Blazedtown]

I'm sorry but that just seems like a rather bullshit way of classifying countries. To claim that one of the most powerful countries in the world is not a developed country is just outright false. But then again, that's the UN for you.

Have you seen Russia's life expectancy stats? Economy is not the only factor the UN uses. Russia's GDP per capita and education are fine.

The fact that the typical Russian diet revolves around vodka, cigarettes and turnips shouldn't really have a bearing on UN ratings systems.

[Geilinor]

Have you seen Russia's life expectancy stats? Economy is not the only factor the UN uses. Russia's GDP per capita and education are fine.

The fact that the typical Russian diet revolves around vodka, cigarettes and turnips shouldn't really have a bearing on UN ratings systems.

Have you ever heard of the three words "quality of life"?

[Blazedtown]

The fact that the typical Russian diet revolves around vodka, cigarettes and turnips shouldn't really have a bearing on UN ratings systems.

Have you ever heard of the three words "quality of life"?

This is Russia we're talking about here, they don't have any.

[Mavorpen]

Also, he's wrong that Singapore doesn't have guns. It does have guns. It just has extensive regulation to obtain a license. Once you get a license, you can get pretty much whatever type you want.

it's close to an effective complete ban... licenses are rare am i rite?

Does the percentage of firearm owners even make up 1% of the population?

It's de facto banned.

No it isn't. Anyone can get a license if they can give a reason for one, like defense or hunting. Just because a lot of people don't bother to get one, doesn't mean it's banned.

[Geilinor]

Have you ever heard of the three words "quality of life"?

This is Russia we're talking about here, they don't have any.

So not developed? Glad we figured it out.

[Margno]

this is a very American-centric position to hold...

you do know that most of the rest of the developed world doesn't suffer from regular school shootings, doesn't have massive numbers of citizens owning guns and millions of weapons floating around, and doesn't get a reputation for gun crime and school shootings right?

They seem to be doing pretty well.

It's time to re-evaluate the wisdom of the 2nd Amendment.

The "rest of the developed world." That's interesting. Despite what you say, the "rest of the developed world" isn't some sort of gun-ban utopia where politicians bravely passed gun control and now crime doesn't happen.

First - there are many countries that, like us, have relatively loose laws regarding guns. Like the Czech Republic.

Second - there are many countries that, like us, have a lot of guns. Like Switzerland.

Third - there are developed countries that have implemented gun control, but it clearly hasn't worked. Like Russia.

Don't generalize. There are countries with gun control that have low crime, and countries without gun control that have low crime. There are countries with gun control that have high crime, and countries without gun control that have high crime.

That just tells me that even if gun control doesn't make things worse, it doesn't appear to make things better. So let's not restrict rights for a negligible effect.

Fact checking this discussion, it seems that Kefka is correct that in developed nations gun ownership rates are positively correlated with gun violence rates. It's worth noting that the trend does not hold in developing nations.

[Gaelic Celtia]

I'm sorry but that just seems like a rather bullshit way of classifying countries. To claim that one of the most powerful countries in the world is not a developed country is just outright false. But then again, that's the UN for you.

Have you seen Russia's life expectancy stats? Economy is not the only factor the UN uses. Russia's GDP per capita and education are fine.

Which is mostly due to rampant alcoholism and a higher tendency to have manual labor isnt it?

[Blazedtown]

it's close to an effective complete ban... licenses are rare am i rite?

Does the percentage of firearm owners even make up 1% of the population?

It's de facto banned.

No it isn't. Anyone can get a license if they can give a reason for one, like defense or hunting. Just because a lot of people don't bother to get one, doesn't mean it's banned.

Where do you go hunting in a city state?

[Mavorpen]

No it isn't. Anyone can get a license if they can give a reason for one, like defense or hunting. Just because a lot of people don't bother to get one, doesn't mean it's banned.

Where do you go hunting in a city state?

Exactly. That's why comparing Singapore to many other countries when it comes to gun ownership is silly. It's a fucking city state.

[Occupied Deutschland]

No it isn't. Anyone can get a license if they can give a reason for one, like defense or hunting. Just because a lot of people don't bother to get one, doesn't mean it's banned.

Where do you go hunting in a city state?

The most dangerous game is that in the concrete jungle.

[Geilinor]

No it isn't. Anyone can get a license if they can give a reason for one, like defense or hunting. Just because a lot of people don't bother to get one, doesn't mean it's banned.

Where do you go hunting in a city state?

Japan has strict gun control and you can hunt there. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/29/reference/in-japan-gun-control-is-the-norm-and-discipline-is-rigid/#.UzTi1vldWjA

[Gun Manufacturers]

God Kefka very much enjoys stirring shit up by making up silly or outrageous opinions and posting them in threads. Taking him seriously in anything ever is a terrible mistake.

this is a very American-centric position to hold...

you do know that most of the rest of the developed world doesn't suffer from regular school shootings, doesn't have massive numbers of citizens owning guns and millions of weapons floating around, and doesn't get a reputation for gun crime and school shootings right?

They seem to be doing pretty well.

It's time to re-evaluate the wisdom of the 2nd Amendment.

And you've been told how to go about doing that, but it doesn't seem like you want to do the work.

[Blazedtown]

Where do you go hunting in a city state?

Japan has strict gun control and you can hunt there. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/29/reference/in-japan-gun-control-is-the-norm-and-discipline-is-rigid/#.UzTi1vldWjA

Its not a matter of whether or not its legal, its literally where can you hunting in a city state. is there any undeveloped land in Singapore.