[submitted] Outlaw Gay Conversion Camps

[Liberatia]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vie ... 1388915043

Category: Human Rights

Strength: Significant

Proposed by: Liberatia

Description: The World Assembly,

Seeing that gay "conversion camps" are facilities meant to "cure" homosexuality,

Acknowledging that these camps very rarely succeed in successfully "curing" gay people,

Observing the fact that they have been proven by medical experts to have a detrimental affect on the mental health of attendees,

Knowing that homosexuality has been shown and considered by many to be a natural occurrence, and has in many cases, been the cause of many teen suicides

Astonished at the fact that people consider it something that needs a cure,

Hereby outlaws these "conversion camps".

[Milograd]

You shouldn't have submitted this without asking for input first.

[Liberatia]

You shouldn't have submitted this without asking for input first.

your probably right, but lets see where it goes first, and, if it does not get enough approval from delegates, I can get input, then resubmit it.

[Milograd]

You shouldn't have submitted this without asking for input first.

your probably right, but lets see where it goes first, and, if it does not get enough approval from delegates, I can get input, then resubmit it.

You should always receive input first. This proposal won't go anywhere as of now.

[The Dark Star Republic]

"Interesting idea, but absent much of a definition, I think people would evade this by simply complaining that their camps are prayer groups or youth clubs, and that the conversion is incidental.

"I also think that gay conversion is already mitigated to some extent by the Institutional Psychiatry Act:

2. No patient shall be subject to medication or punishment that is not in their best medical interests or lacks a therapeutic or diagnostic purpose (e.g., as a method of punishment, for the convenience of staff, misuses of seclusion or electroconvulsive therapy, lobotomization, embarrassment via group therapy);

"If you are going to go this way, I would suggest focussing your proposal a little wider than only camps, and tackle conversion therapy in general."

~ Ambassador to the WA Inky Fungschlammer

[Liberatia]

"Interesting idea, but absent much of a definition, I think people would evade this by simply complaining that their camps are prayer groups or youth clubs, and that the conversion is incidental.

"I also think that gay conversion is already mitigated to some extent by the Institutional Psychiatry Act:

2. No patient shall be subject to medication or punishment that is not in their best medical interests or lacks a therapeutic or diagnostic purpose (e.g., as a method of punishment, for the convenience of staff, misuses of seclusion or electroconvulsive therapy, lobotomization, embarrassment via group therapy);

"If you are going to go this way, I would suggest focussing your proposal a little wider than only camps, and tackle conversion therapy in general."

~ Ambassador to the WA Inky Fungschlammer

ok, I will probably take this down later

[People Who Say Ni]

I support this, although I would ask for a HUGE redraft.
Firstly, you'll have to make a pitch for why this is an international issue and why it needs o be addressed. This can go in the preamble before the actual legislation.
Other suggestions:

Seeing that gay "conversion camps" are facilities meant to "cure" homosexuality,
Define "gay conversion camps"

Acknowledging that these camps very rarely succeed in successfully "curing" gay people,
No! No! No! Something along the lines of "Noting that homosexuality is not undesirable", "Knowing homosexuality can not be cured" or "Appalled at the treatment of homosexuality like a disease to be cured"

Observing the fact that they have been proven by medical experts to have a detrimental affect on the mental health of attendees,
Knowing that homosexuality has been shown and considered by many to be a natural occurrence, and has in many cases, been the cause of many teen suicides
Statistics from the outside world don't work in NS, however, this can be reworded.

Astonished at the fact that people consider it something that needs a cure,
This is like what I mentioned before - it's good.

Hereby outlaws these "conversion camps".
This needs more clarification. How are they outlawed, specifically?

Points:
- many nations are "anti-gay" and this bill may infringe upon their national sovereignty
- take a look at how other proposals are drafted and read the rules

[New Potatoezstan]

I Like the idea and will support this but it needs WAY more input before you submit it.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

From how I read it numerous times, the text claims that "Homosexuality is the cause of teen suicides". I can't agree on that because it is actually the stigma against homosexuality, not the sexual orientation itself. Given that Charlotte Ryberg is pro-LGBT, we will have to oppose this for being poorly written.

-- Ms. S. Harper.

[Discoveria]

"I support the intent behind this resolution," said Matthew, "but I must agree with other ambassadors that the case for this being an international issue has not been made. After all, I doubt parents send their gay kids to conversion camps in other countries. I must also agree with Ms. Harper's objection to the wording of the proposal."

[Liberatia]

From how I read it numerous times, the text claims that "Homosexuality is the cause of teen suicides". I can't agree on that because it is actually the stigma against homosexuality, not the sexual orientation itself. Given that Charlotte Ryberg is pro-LGBT, we will have to oppose this for being poorly written.

-- Ms. S. Harper.

sorry, it was supposed to say that the camps are the cause. it was kinda late when I typed it up.

[Point Breeze]

Since the WA has taken on LGBT rights before, albeit as a part of a larger human rights resolution, I think a case can be made for this being an international issue.

Let me say that you have a very good start, compared to first attempts made by many other "green" nations. However, you've got a long way to go before this is ready to submit. I strongly suggest you follow the guidelines given by the Ambassador who says Ni.

[Mousebumples]

How is this significant in strength? Yes, it has a strong impact - on gay conversion camps - but that is such a narrow focus, that I'm thinking that this might be illegal for that reason.

I would suggest you, the author, subject a GHR to request that the mods remove your proposal for further work and revision on the forums.

[Opaloka]

The Workers' & Soldiers' Government supports the spirit and intent of this submission. To that end we have approved.

However we must agree that further drafting us required - the suicide thing needs to go and effect extended to include all 'convertion therapy' and other anti-gay activity.

It is an international issue because homosexuality is as natural & normal as heterosexuality, therefore gays & lesbians (& other GSD people) are everywhere.

Some people are gay get over it!

[Galente federation]

their choice

[Ardchoille]

How is this significant in strength? Yes, it has a strong impact - on gay conversion camps - but that is such a narrow focus, that I'm thinking that this might be illegal for that reason.
I would suggest you, the author, subject a GHR to request that the mods remove your proposal for further work and revision on the forums.

I have been eagerly awaiting that request ever since this admission,

ok, I will probably take this down later

and this one:

From how I read it numerous times, the text claims that "Homosexuality is the cause of teen suicides". I can't agree on that because it is actually the stigma against homosexuality, not the sexual orientation itself. <snip>

sorry, it was supposed to say that the camps are the cause. it was kinda late when I typed it up.

I was about to stop waiting and kill it for category violation, strength violation and (possibly) internal contradiction when I saw Mousebumples' post and realised you might not have acted because you didn't know how to get it withdrawn.

Well, now you do.

[Herzil]

Im sorry but unless ALL The Gay's throughout the regions are being Exported into A Specific concentration camp for conversion or some regions are working together to eliminate homosexuality this is not a world assembly concern.

[Separatist Peoples]

Im sorry but unless ALL The Gay's throughout the regions are being Exported into A Specific concentration camp for conversion or some regions are working together to eliminate homosexuality this is not a world assembly concern.

Actually, the argument can be made that it is, since it's such a gross violation of one's rights. Its a tightrope walk, but violations of this magnitude, though not specifically international, would deserve the attention of the WA.

[Herzil]

Im sorry but unless ALL The Gay's throughout the regions are being Exported into A Specific concentration camp for conversion or some regions are working together to eliminate homosexuality this is not a world assembly concern.

Actually, the argument can be made that it is, since it's such a gross violation of one's rights. Its a tightrope walk, but violations of this magnitude, though not specifically international, would deserve the attention of the WA.

I Stand Corrected!
Your right, if it is in fact done everywhere & in magnitude.

But if this conversion is done in specific region (I had a region name in mind but rather not get into A Diplomatic Hell) or nations of a specific region, how is it any different from missionary work done by religion groups in summer camps? (you dont see resolutions for forcing religion via camp).

[Point Breeze]

Actually, the argument can be made that it is, since it's such a gross violation of one's rights. Its a tightrope walk, but violations of this magnitude, though not specifically international, would deserve the attention of the WA.

I Stand Corrected!
Your right, if it is in fact done everywhere & in magnitude.

But if this conversion is done in specific region (I had a region name in mind but rather not get into A Diplomatic Hell) or nations of a specific region, how is it any different from missionary work done by religion groups in summer camps? (you dont see resolutions for forcing religion via camp).

The residents of religious summer camps enroll voluntarily. Inmates of conversion camps may be compelled or coerced into attending.

[Herzil]

I see what you mean.
Overall conversion of any kind is wrong, especially if not given by choice or if it ends in health issues.

I do have a problem with the sentence with the underline:

Knowing that homosexuality has been shown and considered by many to be a natural occurrence, and has in many cases, been the cause of many teen suicides

It gives the wrong impression in the subtext as if homosexuality is the cause for the suicides which actually isnt true. its the pressure those teen have to bear when telling their parents or when the community they are part of, finds out.

So maybe alter it stating that conversion camps given their influence on a person psychological strength (especially when that person is in s/he's persona/self esteem developing stages), leads many teens into suicide.

and therefor the entire practice of conversion camps should be abolished.

[Separatist Peoples]

I see what you mean.
Overall conversion of any kind is wrong, especially if not given by choice or if it ends in health issues.

I do have a problem with the sentence with the underline:

Knowing that homosexuality has been shown and considered by many to be a natural occurrence, and has in many cases, been the cause of many teen suicides

It gives the wrong impression in the subtext as if homosexuality is the cause for the suicides which actually isnt true. its the pressure those teen have to bear when telling their parents or when the community they are part of, finds out.

So maybe alter it stating that conversion camps given their influence on a person psychological strength (especially when that person is in s/he's persona/self esteem developing stages), leads many teens into suicide.

and therefor the entire practice of conversion camps should be abolished.

Ahem...

From how I read it numerous times, the text claims that "Homosexuality is the cause of teen suicides". I can't agree on that because it is actually the stigma against homosexuality, not the sexual orientation itself. Given that Charlotte Ryberg is pro-LGBT, we will have to oppose this for being poorly written.

-- Ms. S. Harper.

sorry, it was supposed to say that the camps are the cause. it was kinda late when I typed it up.

That is being addressed.

[Liberatia]

How is this significant in strength? Yes, it has a strong impact - on gay conversion camps - but that is such a narrow focus, that I'm thinking that this might be illegal for that reason.
I would suggest you, the author, subject a GHR to request that the mods remove your proposal for further work and revision on the forums.

I have been eagerly awaiting that request ever since this admission,

ok, I will probably take this down later

and this one:

sorry, it was supposed to say that the camps are the cause. it was kinda late when I typed it up.

I was about to stop waiting and kill it for category violation, strength violation and (possibly) internal contradiction when I saw Mousebumples' post and realised you might not have acted because you didn't know how to get it withdrawn.

Well, now you do.

I have gotten proposals withdrawn before.

[Separatist Peoples]

I have gotten proposals withdrawn before.

You're doing yourself no favors by admitting that. Why didn't you have it yanked before, when you saw it had significant issues?