And the laws that define the political system. Quite the problem.
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by Farnhamia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:42 am
by Luveria » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:42 am
Farnhamia wrote:Ifreann wrote:And the laws that define the political system. Quite the problem.
Indeed. One hardly knows where to begin. Do we disenfranchise everyone and then rewrite the Constitution or the other way 'round? Or do we simply pack it in with a "Nice try, chaps!" and all move elsewhere? Dear me.
by Shilya » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:51 am
by Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:53 am
by Farnhamia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:02 am
Shilya wrote:Luveria wrote:
Abolishing term limits would be a good start.
Dear Lord, you don't know what you say. That breeds a lot of bad things. See my other post about incumbents viewtopic.php?p=17735063#p17735063 here for details why many of the presidents, even bad ones, would outlive their two terms.
We had a chancellor for a whopping 16 years. In that time, his party had gone corrupt like hell, he had botchered the unification of the country and sold it out. Even after the horrible reunifications it took 8 years for the people to realize how much they had been fucked over, and it was only possible to topple him with the rather left votes from the new states.
Term limits promote change and progress and fight the stabilization of corrupt officials, and they give challengers and new candidate a fair chance every two terms.
by Shilya » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:09 am
Farnhamia wrote:Presidential term limits in the US were basically a "fuck you" to the Roosevelt years from the Republicans. I have less problem with that than with proposed term limits for Congress. I don't want the country run by amateurs, no matter how altruistic they are. What you get with term-limited legislatures are single-issue representatives who feel no obligation to work with their colleagues because they no that they won't be around long enough for that to matter. All they want is to flog their pet issue and maybe hustle some bills through.
If you want incumbents defeated then find good candidates and work as hard as you can. No one said it would be easy. Term limits are the lazy person's solution to political problems.
by Farnhamia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:13 am
Shilya wrote:Farnhamia wrote:Presidential term limits in the US were basically a "fuck you" to the Roosevelt years from the Republicans. I have less problem with that than with proposed term limits for Congress. I don't want the country run by amateurs, no matter how altruistic they are. What you get with term-limited legislatures are single-issue representatives who feel no obligation to work with their colleagues because they no that they won't be around long enough for that to matter. All they want is to flog their pet issue and maybe hustle some bills through.
Yes, term limits for legislature are a different matter. I see the disadvantages here outweighing the potential advantages. But that would be installing more term limits, which the argument wasn't about - it was about abolishing the existing ones for the president.If you want incumbents defeated then find good candidates and work as hard as you can. No one said it would be easy. Term limits are the lazy person's solution to political problems.
The problem is that the presidential election is a huge media event and the best candidate doesn't necessarily win simply due to the force of opinion forming. A good candidate will always have an advantage, term limits or not, but history doesn't lie - incumbents are favoured and people don't like change. This can lead to a better candidate not succeeding.
A lazy solution doesn't have to be bad.
by Nervium » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:35 am
by Central Kadigan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:35 am
by Farnhamia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:37 am
Central Kadigan wrote:The whole thing is a mess; awash in truckloads of undisclosed moneys, secret backroom deals, and huge personal egos.
It would be a much shorter thread is you asked “What isn’t the problem with American politcis?”
by Duvniask » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:37 am
Central Kadigan wrote:The whole thing is a mess; awash in truckloads of undisclosed moneys, secret backroom deals, and huge personal egos.
It would be a much shorter thread is you asked “What isn’t the problem with American politcis?”
by Priory Academy USSR » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:41 am
Shilya wrote:Luveria wrote:
Abolishing term limits would be a good start.
Dear Lord, you don't know what you say. That breeds a lot of bad things. See my other post about incumbents viewtopic.php?p=17735063#p17735063 here for details why many of the presidents, even bad ones, would outlive their two terms.
We had a chancellor for a whopping 16 years. In that time, his party had gone corrupt like hell, he had botchered the unification of the country and sold it out. Even after the horrible reunifications it took 8 years for the people to realize how much they had been fucked over, and it was only possible to topple him with the rather left votes from the new states.
Term limits promote change and progress and fight the stabilization of corrupt officials, and they give challengers and new candidate a fair chance every two terms.
by Len Hyet » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:47 am
Priory Academy USSR wrote:Shilya wrote:
Dear Lord, you don't know what you say. That breeds a lot of bad things. See my other post about incumbents viewtopic.php?p=17735063#p17735063 here for details why many of the presidents, even bad ones, would outlive their two terms.
We had a chancellor for a whopping 16 years. In that time, his party had gone corrupt like hell, he had botchered the unification of the country and sold it out. Even after the horrible reunifications it took 8 years for the people to realize how much they had been fucked over, and it was only possible to topple him with the rather left votes from the new states.
Term limits promote change and progress and fight the stabilization of corrupt officials, and they give challengers and new candidate a fair chance every two terms.
Stopping popular politicians from running for Presidency more than twice is simply stupid. If there's corruption, the simple solution is to vote that person out, not force them out.
by Priory Academy USSR » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:50 am
Len Hyet wrote:Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Stopping popular politicians from running for Presidency more than twice is simply stupid. If there's corruption, the simple solution is to vote that person out, not force them out.
You do understand what corruption means right? If Politician A is corrupt, and rigs the vote, then Politician A will never be voted out of office. I think term limits aren't restrictive enough. One six year term for Presidents. One six year term for Senators and Representatives, all elections taking place in the same year. That way the President, House, and Senate are forced to work together, because they will not get another chance.
by Len Hyet » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:52 am
Priory Academy USSR wrote:Len Hyet wrote:
You do understand what corruption means right? If Politician A is corrupt, and rigs the vote, then Politician A will never be voted out of office. I think term limits aren't restrictive enough. One six year term for Presidents. One six year term for Senators and Representatives, all elections taking place in the same year. That way the President, House, and Senate are forced to work together, because they will not get another chance.
If there's evidence that the President is corrupt, then Congress can call to impeach him/her.
by Priory Academy USSR » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:54 am
by Farnhamia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:55 am
by Liechenstein » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:51 am
by The Scientific States » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:52 am
by Ifreann » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:00 am
Liechenstein wrote:I think one of the main problems with the current United States government is that it is a far cry of what it was and suppose to be originally.
by Calimera II » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:01 am
by Liechenstein » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:02 am
by Liechenstein » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:11 am
Calimera II wrote:Campaign Finance Legislation: Congressmen spend more time on raising money than working for the US people.
by Farnhamia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:14 am
Liechenstein wrote:Calimera II wrote:Campaign Finance Legislation: Congressmen spend more time on raising money than working for the US people.
A arguable but nonetheless interesting point and that is one of the arguments some have made to return Senate elections to State legislators as they were originally.
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