by Verbal Pararhea » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:47 pm
by Verbal Pararhea » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:17 pm
by Farnhamia » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:28 pm
Verbal Pararhea wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13666066
Article is old, but still relevant for the purposes of this post. A proposal exists (or existed) to abolish sending women (and only women) to prison. It was explicitly and obviously a gender-based double-standard. But here's the thing. The proponents of the policy swear that it works. Supposing, for the sake of argument, that they are right, that making prison something only men can be sentenced to actually works in reducing crime effectively, should it be done? It's not "fair," but if it worked, should we forego fairness in favor of results?
Personally, I'm not bothered, in principle, by favoring results over fairness. However, in this particular case, I'm not sure the long term results of overturning the rule of law would be a good thing. You have to look at all the consequences of a policy, not just the immediate ones, and I'm not convinced this would be all sunshine and roses.
by Olthar » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:37 pm
by Regnum Dominae » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:39 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:40 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:41 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:Reforming the prison system to focus more on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment would be a much better alternative. They're right that the womens prison system isn't doing its job, but we can solve that by fixing women's prisons, there is no need to abolish them.
by Regnum Dominae » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:42 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:Reforming the prison system to focus more on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment would be a much better alternative. They're right that the womens prison system isn't doing its job, but we can solve that by fixing women's prisons, there is no need to abolish them.
>implying the men's prison system is doing a better job
by Farnhamia » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:44 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:Reforming the prison system to focus more on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment would be a much better alternative. They're right that the womens prison system isn't doing its job, but we can solve that by fixing women's prisons, there is no need to abolish them.
Abolishing prisons for women is an incredibly foolish idea.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:45 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:>implying the men's prison system is doing a better job
I never said it was. But this is about the women's prisons, so I'm discussing the women's prisons.
BOTH men's and women's prisons need to reform to focus more on rehabilitation (it works - look at Norway), but that's not what's meant to be discussed here.
by Olthar » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:46 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:I never said it was. But this is about the women's prisons, so I'm discussing the women's prisons.
BOTH men's and women's prisons need to reform to focus more on rehabilitation (it works - look at Norway), but that's not what's meant to be discussed here.
Just focusing on women's prisons is as fucked up as just focusing on white inmates.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:47 pm
Farnhamia wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:Reforming the prison system to focus more on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment would be a much better alternative. They're right that the womens prison system isn't doing its job, but we can solve that by fixing women's prisons, there is no need to abolish them.
Abolishing prisons for women is an incredibly foolish idea.
I don't disagree but perhaps the problem is that rehabilitation is hard to do in a prison environment. That may be the intent of the findings, even if they've been expressed incorrectly.
by Vetalia » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:48 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:48 pm
by Olthar » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:54 pm
by Blasveck » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:56 pm
Olthar wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:Unfortunately that's an actual thing in this country.
Indeed. In addition to the ludicrous prison-industrial complex, the American "justice" system, if you can really call it that, is notoriously racist. Even TV stars like LeVar Burton are legitimately afraid of encountering police in this nation. It's terrible.
by Farnhamia » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:57 pm
Blasveck wrote:Olthar wrote:Indeed. In addition to the ludicrous prison-industrial complex, the American "justice" system, if you can really call it that, is notoriously racist. Even TV stars like LeVar Burton are legitimately afraid of encountering police in this nation. It's terrible.
Considering that we have people going to jail for victimless crimes, and the horrid penal system, it's no wonder.
by Mavorpen » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:58 pm
by Farnhamia » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:58 pm
by Olthar » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:00 pm
by Diopolis » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:01 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:Reforming the prison system to focus more on rehabilitation as opposed to punishment would be a much better alternative. They're right that the prison system isn't doing its job, but we can solve that by fixing prisons, there is no need to abolish them.
Abolishing prisons is an incredibly foolish idea.
by Blasveck » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:02 pm
by Vetalia » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:02 pm
Olthar wrote:Cut the private sector out of the whole thing. Switch over to rehabilitation instead of punishment. End the Drug War. Stop hiring racist, power hungry douchebags to the police.
by Saiwania » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:03 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:03 pm
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