by Land of greed » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:32 pm
by World Vision » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:49 pm
by Soheran » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:50 pm
Land of greed wrote:I think the court made the right decision,
by Barringtonia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:53 pm
by World Vision » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:56 pm
by Barringtonia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:58 pm
World Vision wrote:To be black is to start off at a disadvantage, therefore all tests are invalid that do not take that into account.
by The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:02 pm
by Blouman Empire » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:04 pm
World Vision wrote:This ruling continues the oppression of minorities.
by Barringtonia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:06 pm
It hired an outside firm to design a test, which was given to 77 candidates for lieutenant and 41 candidates for captain.
Fifty-six firefighters passed the exams, including 41 whites, nine blacks and six Hispanics. But of those, only 17 whites and two Hispanics could expect promotion.
by Rolling Dead » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:07 pm
by Barringtonia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:07 pm
Blouman Empire wrote:World Vision wrote:This ruling continues the oppression of minorities.
How?
..the courts that had upheld the city's discarding of results of an exam in which no African-Americans scored high enough to be promoted to lieutenant or captain.
by Pope Joan » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:07 pm
by Barringtonia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:13 pm
Pope Joan wrote:This just goes to show that our current Court does not deem itself bound by any of its own precedents.
Why, such arbitrary and capricious action can only be described as...judicial activism!
"The Supreme Court clearly had a new interpretation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act."
by Zivenzia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:16 pm
by Ryadn » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:23 pm
Soheran wrote:Land of greed wrote:I think the court made the right decision,
I do not. If we want to have a society that actually has racial equality, we need to take disparate impact seriously.
by Zivenzia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:30 pm
by Heinleinites » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:32 pm
Zivenzia wrote:If asked why a particular group does poorly on a test, why is "racism" always the first answer?
by Zivenzia » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:37 pm
Heinleinites wrote:I wonder if/how being reversed on this will affect Ms. Sotomayor's expected confirmation to the Supreme Court in any way. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.Zivenzia wrote:If asked why a particular group does poorly on a test, why is "racism" always the first answer?
Because it's easy, and people are lazy.
by Ryadn » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:51 pm
Zivenzia wrote:If asked why a particular group does poorly on a test, why is "racism" always the first answer? Is it a truism based on perpetuated stereotypes?
by Cybach » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:34 am
by Blouman Empire » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:42 am
Barringtonia wrote:56 passed, 9 were black, over 15%, yet none are promoted, something sounds wrong.
Although.....the courts that had upheld the city's discarding of results of an exam in which no African-Americans scored high enough to be promoted to lieutenant or captain.
by Molested Sock » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:54 am
Monday's decision has its origins in New Haven's need to fill vacancies for lieutenants and captains in its fire department. It hired an outside firm to design a test, which was given to 77 candidates for lieutenant and 41 candidates for captain.
Fifty-six firefighters passed the exams, including 41 whites, nine blacks and six Hispanics. But of those, only 17 whites and two Hispanics could expect promotion.
The white firefighters said the decision violated the same law's prohibition on intentional discrimination. The lawsuit was filed by 20 white plaintiffs, including one man who is both white and Hispanic.
But Ginsburg said the court should have assessed "the starkly disparate results" of the exams against the backdrop of historical and ongoing inequality in the New Haven fire department. As of 2003, she said, only one of the city's 21 fire captains was African-American.
by Eofaerwic » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:03 am
Blouman Empire wrote:Barringtonia wrote:56 passed, 9 were black, over 15%, yet none are promoted, something sounds wrong.
Although.....the courts that had upheld the city's discarding of results of an exam in which no African-Americans scored high enough to be promoted to lieutenant or captain.
Is passing the test the only requirement to be eligible for promotion?
And the quote you placed in is important to remember.
by Cybach » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:05 am
Eofaerwic wrote:Blouman Empire wrote:Barringtonia wrote:56 passed, 9 were black, over 15%, yet none are promoted, something sounds wrong.
Is passing the test the only requirement to be eligible for promotion?
And the quote you placed in is important to remember.
Hmm, looking at the proportions of passing versus promotions it looks like they promote the top third of those who pass (assuming it's entirely based on the exam). I can't be arsed to do the exact statistical calculation of the probability that none of the 9 black candidates scored in the top third (and I'll admit I can't quite remeber the formula, A-Level maths was 7 years ago). However, I'd argue that although statistically improbable, it's perfectly possible that, through random chance and normal distribution of ability, that the 66% of those passing who didn't score high enough to be promoted contained all of the 15% who were African American.
This said, I don't think that should mean the possibility of bias should be dismissed, I'd argue that careful examination of the test is required, including use of larger sample sizes (or possibly examination of historical data from year on year if it's been used a lot) to see if there is consistent evidence of lower average scores among minorities, and of course qualitative analysis for any evidence of bias. But if this level of examination indicates that the results from that particular year were due to chance then I don't think you can really justify throwing out the test.
by Mortshnefran » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:13 am
World Vision wrote:This ruling continues the oppression of minorities.
World Vision wrote:To be black is to start off at a disadvantage, therefore all tests are invalid that do not take that into account.
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