NATION

PASSWORD

An Independent Native American State?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you think Native American Reservations should be allowed to gain independence?

YES
235
38%
NO
275
45%
MAYBE
104
17%
 
Total votes : 614

User avatar
Shirah Mataniya
Envoy
 
Posts: 244
Founded: Feb 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

An Independent Native American State?

Postby Shirah Mataniya » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:15 pm

I came across an interesting page on Wikipedia earlier today called "Republic of Lakotah" after reading about the American Indian Movement (AIM).
Basically the Republic of Lakotah is a proposed homeland in North America for the Lakota.
The Lakota native Americans, the tribe where Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse are from, have withdrawn from the 150 year old treaties between them and the United States.

I personally think the Americans should allow the Native Americans the right to reassert their sovereignty over the reservations they currently reside on and sacred tribal sites, after all the United States has promised the Native Americans the right of self determination in 1918.
The U.S. Government as the representatives of a leading respected Democratic nation should allow the Native Americans this right.
In fact they should feel obliged to do so, considering the past the colonists and the natives shared.
In accordance with the Indian Removal Act of 1830, the U.S. Government promised the peoples of the five tribes (Cherokee, Muscogee (Creek), Seminole, Chickasaw, and Choctaw) that they would never be bothered by them ever again as long they moved from their beloved homelands and moved to the west of the Mississippi, this arduous journey that killed an abundance of natives became known as trail of tears.
Of course, the colonists did not stand by their hollow promise and they continued to push ever westwards and steal lands off the natives until there was very little land left. Time and time again the American Government found an excuse and plausible way to steal more and more land, even as recently as the 1940's and onwards when the Board of Indian Affair's started the Indian Relocation Program when they transferred Native Americans living in rural and remote areas to big cities such as San Francisco and New York. Wilma Mankiller and her Cherokee family were living evidence of this scandal, before they were relocated to San Francisco in 1956, they lived in their ancestral home known to them as "Mankiller Flats" which was situated in the Adair County of Oklahoma.

A group of Native Americans called the Lakota Freedom Delegation traveled to Washington, D.C., on 17 December 2007 and delivered a statement asserting the independence of the Lakota from the United States. The group argues that the recent declaration of independence is not a secession from the USA, but rather a reassertion of sovereignty. Their leader was Russell Means, one of the prominent members of the American Indian Movement in the late 1960s and 1970's.

Its boundaries would be surrounded by the borders of the United States, covering thousands of square miles in North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, and Montana. The proposed borders are those of the 1851 Treaty of Fort Laramie between the United States government and the Lakota.
A group of Native Americans called the Lakota Freedom Delegation traveled to Washington, D.C., on 17 December 2007 and delivered a statement asserting the independence of the Lakota from the United States. The group argues that the recent declaration of independence is not a secession from the USA, but rather a reassertion of sovereignty. Their leader was Russell Means, one of the prominent members of the American Indian Movement in the late 1960's
and 1970's.


Image

Proposed location of the Republic of Lakotah


Gary Garrison of the BIA said that the group's withdrawal "doesn't mean anything." "These are not legitimate tribal governments elected by the people ... when they begin the process of violating other people's rights, breaking the law, they're going to end up like all the other groups that have declared themselves independent — usually getting arrested and being put in jail."

Source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah


So this leads me to the question, do you think Native American tribes should be given the right to declare their reservations independent?
Last edited by Shirah Mataniya on Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:25 pm, edited 8 times in total.
For: Scottish Independence, Irish Reunification and the Good Friday Agreement, Cypriot Reunification and the Annan Plan, Republic of Lakotah and the American Indian Movement, Palestine Liberation Organization and the Madrid Conference, Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process, Sovereignty of Taiwan, Civil Partnership, Tibetan Independence, Catalan Independence, Abortion (under certain circumstances)

Against: Hydraulic Fracturing, Racism, Kosovo, Nazism, Gay Marriage, Animal Cruelty, Same-sex Adoption, Imperialism, Sectarianism, Terrorism and Jihadism, Chechen Independence, Occultism


User avatar
Stern des Meeres
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22020
Founded: Nov 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Stern des Meeres » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:18 pm

If the majority of people within a tribe want to become independent, then I see no problem in it. What would it hurt?
Sun Wukong wrote:All hail Stern. Empress of Nerds. Dread-Queen of TeT.
Other Thafoo wrote:hey stern, you should put this quote into your sig, it'll be fun

"bananas"
Esternial wrote:You're a good student, Sterny.

You'll accomplish great things.

Or end up faced down in the gutter, completely wasted.

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44091
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:20 pm

As long as I can enter and leave when I want, I'd be fine with them getting their own state or country. :)
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Greater Corea
Diplomat
 
Posts: 775
Founded: Feb 18, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Greater Corea » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:21 pm

I am completely for this proposal. As you point out America is Democratic and the if the majority are for, the tribes should be allowed independence. Technically the Whole of America is their land and it'd feel right giving some of it back to the previous owners...
Join Asiana today!
Shnercropolis wrote:
Greater Corea wrote:
...Corea was attacked by some enemy and thus troops stay high for defense porpoises.

aww yeah.
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... ins-5.jpeg

Greater Corea wrote:
Ranoria wrote:...

"He's dead Jim"


:( "Spock, If I get back, we really need to talk about your bedside manner."

Male, 18 yrs old

User avatar
Hydronium
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6007
Founded: Oct 31, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Hydronium » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:21 pm

I think that an Independent Native American state inside the USA would end up being like Palestine and Israel.

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:23 pm

Not a big fan of racial nationalism.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Regnum Dominae
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12345
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Regnum Dominae » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:23 pm

More autonomy should be allowed for tribes that are capable of self-sufficiency, but not independence.
I support peace in Israel and Palestine. The governments and people in power on all sides are an absolute disgrace, and their unwillingness to pursue peace is a disservice to the people they are meant to be serving. The status quo is not simply untenable; it is unquestionably unacceptable.

User avatar
Segland
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1663
Founded: Apr 16, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Segland » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:24 pm

Hydronium wrote:I think that an Independent Native American state inside the USA would end up being like Palestine and Israel.


Except that we don't already hate the Native Americans.
The Seglandic Republic | Segelcynn Gemænewela | 色各兰共和国
"Behavior that's admired is the path to power among people everywhere." - Seamus Heaney

User avatar
Totalise
Diplomat
 
Posts: 563
Founded: Jun 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Totalise » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:24 pm

sooooo what your saying is that the conqueror should give the conqured their land back. am i reading you correctly?
it is almost laughable to think in such a way.

User avatar
Warda
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1898
Founded: Jun 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Warda » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:24 pm

I'd be ok with this is if it was like 10 miles or something, but no, LETS REDRAW THE ENTIRE MAP OF THE US FUR DUH LULZ!!! :lol2:
Nation Described As
Las Palmeras wrote:Decent enough for the Middle East.

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44091
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:25 pm

Segland wrote:
Hydronium wrote:I think that an Independent Native American state inside the USA would end up being like Palestine and Israel.


Except that we don't already hate the Native Americans.

I love the natives, my Great-Grandma was one.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Arcturus Novus
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6727
Founded: Dec 03, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Arcturus Novus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:26 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:More autonomy should be allowed for tribes that are capable of self-sufficiency, but not independence.
Arcy (she/her), NS' fourth-favorite transsexual communist!
"I can fix her!" cool, I'm gonna make her worse.
me - my politics - my twitter
Nilokeras wrote:there is of course an interesting thread to pull on [...]
Unfortunately we're all forced to participate in whatever baroque humiliation kink the OP has going on instead.

User avatar
Shirah Mataniya
Envoy
 
Posts: 244
Founded: Feb 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shirah Mataniya » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:26 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.


But do you agree that the United States should allow the Natives the right to declare independence?
Basically what we call the United States of America today is a nation that was built on lies, violence, greed and hollow promises to name just a few.
For: Scottish Independence, Irish Reunification and the Good Friday Agreement, Cypriot Reunification and the Annan Plan, Republic of Lakotah and the American Indian Movement, Palestine Liberation Organization and the Madrid Conference, Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process, Sovereignty of Taiwan, Civil Partnership, Tibetan Independence, Catalan Independence, Abortion (under certain circumstances)

Against: Hydraulic Fracturing, Racism, Kosovo, Nazism, Gay Marriage, Animal Cruelty, Same-sex Adoption, Imperialism, Sectarianism, Terrorism and Jihadism, Chechen Independence, Occultism


User avatar
Petrovsegratsk
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1324
Founded: Apr 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Petrovsegratsk » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:26 pm

Their own country? Yeah, that's probably never going to happen. Now their own State within the US on the other hand might be possible.
My name is Николай and I am from Россия.

IMPEACH CHARLES XII - LEGALIZE MODERNIZATION - ISOLATION IS THEFT - PETER THE GREAT 1682

The Capitalist Russian, a rare species.

Yandere Schoolgirls wrote:Capitalism is the most moral and effective system for bringing wealth to countries that man has ever devised or known


Hippostania wrote:I live in the second largest metropolitan area in the country (with a grand population of 300,000 :p) and as a lifelong city dweller, I have no skills to survive in the wild whatsoever. To put it mildly, I'd be royally fucked.



The Ben Boys wrote:They are so cute. It's like a toddler trying to wrestle a bear, except the toddler is retarded, doesn't have any teeth, and poops way too much.

User avatar
Mike the Progressive
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:26 pm

Should we also have a country for all those of African and Asian descent?

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:27 pm

Shirah Mataniya wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.


But do you agree that the United States should allow the Natives the right to declare independence?
Basically what we call the United States of America today is a nation that was built on lies, violence, greed and hollow promises to name just a few.

No. Not unless they want to base citizenship on criteria besides race.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Cill Airne
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16428
Founded: Jul 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cill Airne » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:27 pm

I'm not the biggest fan of racial nationalism. While things have been shitty for native Americans in the past, I am pretty sure everything is ok today and I really don't see a reason why they should need a separate state outside of the USA.
Anglican
Avid reader

To dare is to lose one’s footing momentarily. Not to dare is to lose oneself.

User avatar
Mike the Progressive
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mike the Progressive » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:27 pm

Shirah Mataniya wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.


But do you agree that the United States should allow the Natives the right to declare independence?
Basically what we call the United States of America today is a nation that was built on lies, violence, greed and hollow promises to name just a few.


But here's the thing -get over it.

User avatar
Maurepas
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36403
Founded: Apr 17, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Maurepas » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:27 pm

You'd of course have to convince the non-native-american members of that community to leave too. And there would need to be a majority vote to leave, imo.

With that said, I don't think one could get those things these days. They definitely should've been untrifled with by the US, and our government is definitely at fault for taking those lands. But I think it's too late now to make amends, or for them to be independent.


By now, too many Americans who have done nothing to those people would have their citizenship and/or land taken from them in the same fashion, and in the same fashion unfairly done, so no, I can't say I'm in support of it.

It's kind of like how, say, the Falklands probably shouldn't have been taken from South American Natives, but at this point, the people living there are definitively British and it is unfair for Argentina to try and do the same to them.

User avatar
Stovokor
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1109
Founded: Dec 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Stovokor » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:28 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:Not a big fan of racial nationalism.


Agreed, that and it wont happen.
If i'm responding to you directly, it is generally safe to disregard everything that was said and assume i'm calling you a twit.
I Roleplay as such my nation is not a representation of my political, economic, and spiritual beliefs.

Economic Left/Right: 1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.92

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:28 pm

Mike the Progressive wrote:Should we also have a country for all those of African and Asian descent?

We do, it's called downtown
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Shirah Mataniya
Envoy
 
Posts: 244
Founded: Feb 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shirah Mataniya » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:29 pm

Totalise wrote:sooooo what your saying is that the conqueror should give the conqured their land back. am i reading you correctly?
it is almost laughable to think in such a way.

You do realize that the vast majority of nations in Africa were granted independence from the nations that conquered them in the 1960's?
For: Scottish Independence, Irish Reunification and the Good Friday Agreement, Cypriot Reunification and the Annan Plan, Republic of Lakotah and the American Indian Movement, Palestine Liberation Organization and the Madrid Conference, Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process, Sovereignty of Taiwan, Civil Partnership, Tibetan Independence, Catalan Independence, Abortion (under certain circumstances)

Against: Hydraulic Fracturing, Racism, Kosovo, Nazism, Gay Marriage, Animal Cruelty, Same-sex Adoption, Imperialism, Sectarianism, Terrorism and Jihadism, Chechen Independence, Occultism


User avatar
Maurepas
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36403
Founded: Apr 17, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Maurepas » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:30 pm

Shirah Mataniya wrote:
Totalise wrote:sooooo what your saying is that the conqueror should give the conqured their land back. am i reading you correctly?
it is almost laughable to think in such a way.

You do realize that the vast majority of nations in Africa were granted independence from the nations that conquered them in the 1960's?

The difference is, those lands were still majority in the hands of Africans. The Dakotas, not so much. Americans immigrated there in large numbers, unlike Europeans in Africa.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:30 pm

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

User avatar
Hydronium
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6007
Founded: Oct 31, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Hydronium » Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:31 pm

New haven america wrote:
Segland wrote:
Except that we don't already hate the Native Americans.

I love the natives, my Great-Grandma was one.

I'm 1/26 Native American. But I just don't want the local KKK deciding they wanted to do a crusade or something like that.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bienenhalde, Emotional Support Crocodile, Kostane, Lothria, Natonarath, New-Minneapolis, Plan Neonie, Shidei, The Astral Mandate

Advertisement

Remove ads