Agorya wrote:And communism works off the assumption that men can pick government, but cannot pick where to shop or work. It's absurd.
False dichotomy.
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by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:48 pm
Agorya wrote:And communism works off the assumption that men can pick government, but cannot pick where to shop or work. It's absurd.
by Threlizdun » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:52 pm
No, it means without hierarchy. Only a fool would propose that we could have a functioning society without government.Agorya wrote:Anarchy doesn't mean without hierarchy, it means without governance, and is applied to the individual and not the collective.
It does no such thingAnd communism works off the assumption that men can pick government, but cannot pick where to shop or work. It's absurd.
by Gernonai » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:52 pm
Ikania wrote:For Anarchism to work, you need to have a genuinely healthy and content society.
I've always said to myself that Anarchism could work if people could be trusted to govern themselves. But the truth is, they can't be trusted. There are wackos out there that need containment. If you have no police force to stop murders or asylums to keep these people, everyone is in danger. People need to be regulated, because if you don't tell them they can't do something, they'll do it.
"Oh, well there isn't a law against it, so it must be legal." That's the problem. Sure, there would be some people who'd be fine- even better off- with Anarchism. But if you include the psychopaths and murderers and rapists, you get complete chaos.
So no, I don't think Anarchy is good.
by Vareiln » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:53 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Vareiln wrote:Democracy and anarchism aren't mutually exclusive, and indeed, most forms of anarchy feature democratic governance. However, the vast majority of democratic societies existing today have social hierarchies, and thus they cannot be classified as anarchic in any way.
But the hierarchies are voluntary.
The same as an anarcho-capitalist system.
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:55 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:56 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Vareiln wrote:Democracy and anarchism aren't mutually exclusive, and indeed, most forms of anarchy feature democratic governance. However, the vast majority of democratic societies existing today have social hierarchies, and thus they cannot be classified as anarchic in any way.
But the hierarchies are voluntary.
The same as an anarcho-capitalist system.
by Agorya » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:00 pm
No, it means without hierarchy. Only a fool would propose that we could have a functioning society without government.
by Threlizdun » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:03 pm
No, it isn't. Throughout all of recorded history we have knowledge of the existence of societies without hierarchies.Agorya wrote:Hierarchal organization that is voluntarily brought upon by the individual's consent to participate it in, as hierarchy is natural and immutable part of human tribal structure since prehistory. To erase hierarchy from the equation would create a paradox.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:20 pm
Agorya wrote:No, it means without hierarchy. Only a fool would propose that we could have a functioning society without government.
Hierarchal organization that is voluntarily brought upon by the individual's consent to participate it in, as hierarchy is natural and immutable part of human tribal structure since prehistory. To erase hierarchy from the equation would create a paradox.
by Agorya » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:38 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Agorya wrote:
Hierarchal organization that is voluntarily brought upon by the individual's consent to participate it in, as hierarchy is natural and immutable part of human tribal structure since prehistory. To erase hierarchy from the equation would create a paradox.
No, that's just the assumption. You don't need hierarchy in a society any more than you need hierarchy in a romantic relationship.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:39 pm
Agorya wrote:The Parkus Empire wrote:No, that's just the assumption. You don't need hierarchy in a society any more than you need hierarchy in a romantic relationship.
No, it isn't. Hierarchies form naturally when the person who has the most influence uses his influence to compel others. People naturally submit to a higher authority, and once that happens the authority (illegitimately) seals his authority through law. The purpose of anarchy then would be to remove this authority that is enforced by law.
There is a lot of psychological tests done on this, if you want me to bring it up.
by Frisivisia » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:40 pm
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:41 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Anarchism is stupid.
by Frisivisia » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:43 pm
by Agorya » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:44 pm
The Parkus Empire wrote:Agorya wrote:
No, it isn't. Hierarchies form naturally when the person who has the most influence uses his influence to compel others. People naturally submit to a higher authority, and once that happens the authority (illegitimately) seals his authority through law. The purpose of anarchy then would be to remove this authority that is enforced by law.
There is a lot of psychological tests done on this, if you want me to bring it up.
So they're necessary for a romantic relationship?
by Vareiln » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:46 pm
by Frisivisia » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:47 pm
Vareiln wrote:Frisivisia wrote:*becomes anarchist*
Why do I have acne and a strong urge to read Neitzsche and make bombs? This is horrible!
*no longer anarchist*
You know, Fris, I respect you. I really do. I consider you one of the better members of this forum. Someone who's usually very well-informed, rational, etc.
However, in this post, you're being rather irrational(Unless you're just using satire and I'm sucking with my reading comprehension right now). You know that teenage angst isn't anarchy.
by Vareiln » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:48 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Vareiln wrote:You know, Fris, I respect you. I really do. I consider you one of the better members of this forum. Someone who's usually very well-informed, rational, etc.
However, in this post, you're being rather irrational(Unless you're just using satire and I'm sucking with my reading comprehension right now). You know that teenage angst isn't anarchy.
I'm not being serious. Whenever I'm not being rational and well-informed, I'm not being serious.
by Agorya » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:49 pm
Vareiln wrote:Frisivisia wrote:*becomes anarchist*
Why do I have acne and a strong urge to read Neitzsche and make bombs? This is horrible!
*no longer anarchist*
You know, Fris, I respect you. I really do. I consider you one of the better members of this forum. Someone who's usually very well-informed, rational, etc.
However, in this post, you're being rather irrational(Unless you're just using satire and I'm sucking with my reading comprehension right now). You know that teenage angst isn't anarchy.
by Frisivisia » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:50 pm
Agorya wrote:Vareiln wrote:You know, Fris, I respect you. I really do. I consider you one of the better members of this forum. Someone who's usually very well-informed, rational, etc.
However, in this post, you're being rather irrational(Unless you're just using satire and I'm sucking with my reading comprehension right now). You know that teenage angst isn't anarchy.
Yeah, neo Nazism could be described as teenage angst too and it is anything but anarchic.
by The Parkus Empire » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:51 pm
by Vareiln » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:52 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Agorya wrote:
Yeah, neo Nazism could be described as teenage angst too and it is anything but anarchic.
In all fairness, anarcho-capitalism is one of the more horrible systems I can think of and anarcho-communism is a pipe dream and probably fairly unworkable to boot.
Social Democracy, awaaaaaaaaaaay!
by Lemanrussland » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:52 pm
by Frisivisia » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:52 pm
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