Religion & Politics

[Divair]

You can't remove what's not there.

Yeah...I should have thought about that.

No shit. That's why we don't need the 10 commandments in the judicial system.

A. It's pointless.
B. It's irrelevant.
C. It's illegal.


Next.

[Bundesdeutschland]

Bundesdeutschland, you don't need religion in law, its better that there is no religion in law so we can be free to practice religion without political interference in your church, mosque, synagogue, temple, grove etc.

Jesus said it best.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and render unto God the things that are God's."

Alright, I get that point. I think I'm actually starting to understand.

[Genivaria]

Good relatively. Compared to OT law anyway.

Alright. Alright...

Not that our government doesn't have major flaws of course.
I personally think that are penal system is downright immoral and needs strong reforms, but you get what I'm saying right?

[Liriena]

No. But worshipping any deity you desire is. Thinking whatever you want to is also a human right. Having consensual sex with any adult that so desires is a human right. The right of children to question abusive parents is a human right. The right of women to be regarded as people with the exact same legal rights, protections and obligations and men is a human right.

Your Ten Commandments disrespect those human rights. They blatantly speak of women in the same terms as they speak of cattle or land. They blatantly disregard the possibility of abusive parents, and provide a blanket ban on children questioning patriarchal authority. They blatantly ban you from believing in whatever religion you want to, and practicing however you want to. They blatantly ban you from thinking allegedly immoral things, even if you don't plan on acting on it.

1.Ephesians 5:25- "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."
2."Honor your mother and father" does not mean submit to abusive parents. It means rather to show unconditional love to your parents and leave them alone WHEN they seem intent on abusing you.
3.It's a choice whether to follow Christianity or not; the Ten Commandments serves more of a symbolic role in government. Really, there's not much point in removing the Ten Commandments at all.
4.Dishonesty. Now that would be nice if that wasn't rampant within the government.
5.Burglary. Yet again.
6.Think whatever you want. Your choice. That was addressed to Christians (aka yet again 73% of Americans)
7. So adultery is also a human right?
8. Yes, women are equals with men. Mark 12:31-"...'love your neighbor as yourself"..." This applied to women also.

1) Notice that there is no mention of the possibility of abusive spouses.
2) Taking into account the rest of the Old Testament, you are one hell of a liar.
3) Nope. Nope. Nope.
4) Take your cynicism elsewhere, please.
5) What about burglary? Burglary was illegal in most cultures around the world long before Christianity existed. We don't need the Ten Commandments to know stealing is wrong.
6) Yeah, right.
7) It falls within the realm of bodily autonomy and privacy, so yes.
8.) That's a blatant lie. Read Apostle Paul's writings in the New Testament.

[Bundesdeutschland]

Alright. Alright...

Not that our government doesn't have major flaws of course.
I personally think that are penal system is downright immoral and needs strong reforms, but you get what I'm saying right?

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

[Liriena]

Not that our government doesn't have major flaws of course.
I personally think that are penal system is downright immoral and needs strong reforms, but you get what I'm saying right?

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

They can get along, but they should never be co-dependent. Basing our laws on the doctrine of a single religion would be discriminating against all other religious groups.

[Genivaria]

Not that our government doesn't have major flaws of course.
I personally think that are penal system is downright immoral and needs strong reforms, but you get what I'm saying right?

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

Get along sure, but the merits of every law or policy must be thoroughly discussed and debated, we shouldn't accept it just because someone in a book said it.

[Pope Joan]

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

Get along sure, but the merits of every law or policy must be thoroughly discussed and debated, we shouldn't accept it just because someone in a book said it.

But i hope we don't also disregard something just because somebody said it in a book either. Many wise things have been recorded in books.

[Genivaria]

Get along sure, but the merits of every law or policy must be thoroughly discussed and debated, we shouldn't accept it just because someone in a book said it.

But i hope we don't also disregard something just because somebody said it in a book either. Many wise things have been recorded in books.

I agree completely, there are in fact moral lessons from the bible I agree with.

but during the seventh year let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what is left. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove. Exodus 23:11

I approve of that. Charity to the poor and kindness to animals. Two moral lessons in one.

[Bottle]

Get along sure, but the merits of every law or policy must be thoroughly discussed and debated, we shouldn't accept it just because someone in a book said it.

But i hope we don't also disregard something just because somebody said it in a book either. Many wise things have been recorded in books.

I don't disregard an idea just because it happens to appear in a book that also contains a ton of really, really bad ideas. Rather, I accept that even profoundly fucked up people will sometimes stumble upon obvious realities and truthful statements.

[Blasveck]

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

They can get along, but they should never be co-dependent. Basing our laws on the doctrine of a single religion would be discriminating against all other religious groups.

Where's Vaz at a time like this?

[The USOT]

Get along sure, but the merits of every law or policy must be thoroughly discussed and debated, we shouldn't accept it just because someone in a book said it.

But i hope we don't also disregard something just because somebody said it in a book either. Many wise things have been recorded in books.

We should disregard anything if it is believed on merit of "somebody said it in a book". Wise things are wise in any format.

[Desperaclitus]

Not that our government doesn't have major flaws of course.
I personally think that are penal system is downright immoral and needs strong reforms, but you get what I'm saying right?

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

So do we exclude people from the body politic if they hold what you consider to be "extreme religious ideals?"

[Baltenstein]

I was discussing gay rights with one of my IRL pals, and we both came to the agreement that the only real reason to object to LGBT rights is religion...

Wrong conclusion then. Both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union pursued homophobic policies for decidely non-religious reasons.

PS: Somebody may have already mentioned this.

[Pope Joan]

But i hope we don't also disregard something just because somebody said it in a book either. Many wise things have been recorded in books.

We should disregard anything if it is believed on merit of "somebody said it in a book". Wise things are wise in any format.

All you objectivists, kindly take note.

[Genivaria]

Pretty much. Extreme religious ideals have no place in politics, but nonetheless, certain basic freedoms and more moderate religious ideals can get along with politics.

So do we exclude people from the body politic if they hold what you consider to be "extreme religious ideals?"

Please quote where he actually says that.

[Menassa]

It all depends really, for instance in Temple Times no court murdered anyone more than twice in 70 years.

In the beginning of the first Temple there were many social justices as per The Law.... however towards the end, as the land stopped being paid her Sabbaths they started to dwindle as any failing kingdom might.

However the zealots of the second Temple who would not submit to Rome and placed a stranglehold on the people, that certainly wasn't productive.

[4years]

I was discussing gay rights with one of my IRL pals, and we both came to the agreement that the only real reason to object to LGBT rights is religion...

Wrong conclusion then. Both 1: Nazi Germany and the 2. Soviet Union pursued homophobic policies for decidely non-religious reasons.

PS: Somebody may have already mentioned this.

1. Incorrect, homophobic policies in Nazi Germany stemed (as did many of Nazi Germany' other polices) from the Christain faniticism of Nazi leaders.

2. Debatable, homosexual marriage in the Soviet Union was (as I am sure we all know) legalized under Lenin and banned again under Stalin. This could be explained by Stalin's likely acceptance of the Orthodox faith (he was even trained to be a preacher in that faith in his youth).

[The Grey Wolf]

3 places where religion shouldn't be:
Politics
School
Children's Minds

Why shouldn't it be in children's minds?

[Bottle]

3 places where religion shouldn't be:
Politics
School
Children's Minds

Why shouldn't it be in children's minds?

Same reason (in my opinion) why Creationism, racism, and sincere belief in Reiki probably shouldn't be in children's minds. That is to say, it's okay if children are aware of these concepts, but it's not good if they are taught to nurture these ideas and form their developing minds around them because this results in a sort of stunting of their abilities. It's not impossible for a child to overcome this kind of disadvantage, but I'd prefer they not have to experience it in the first place.

[The Grey Wolf]

Why shouldn't it be in children's minds?

Same reason (in my opinion) why Creationism, racism, and sincere belief in Reiki probably shouldn't be in children's minds. That is to say, it's okay if children are aware of these concepts, but it's not good if they are taught to nurture these ideas and form their developing minds around them because this results in a sort of stunting of their abilities. It's not impossible for a child to overcome this kind of disadvantage, but I'd prefer they not have to experience it in the first place.

So this also includes atheism, or is it just religion?

[Mkuki]

Same reason (in my opinion) why Creationism, racism, and sincere belief in Reiki probably shouldn't be in children's minds. That is to say, it's okay if children are aware of these concepts, but it's not good if they are taught to nurture these ideas and form their developing minds around them because this results in a sort of stunting of their abilities. It's not impossible for a child to overcome this kind of disadvantage, but I'd prefer they not have to experience it in the first place.

So this also includes atheism, or is it just religion?

I'm not Bottle, but that should apply to atheism as well.

[Bottle]

Same reason (in my opinion) why Creationism, racism, and sincere belief in Reiki probably shouldn't be in children's minds. That is to say, it's okay if children are aware of these concepts, but it's not good if they are taught to nurture these ideas and form their developing minds around them because this results in a sort of stunting of their abilities. It's not impossible for a child to overcome this kind of disadvantage, but I'd prefer they not have to experience it in the first place.

So this also includes atheism, or is it just religion?

Atheism is the default state into which all humans are born. One does not "teach" an infant or child to be atheist, they simply remain that way unless you teach them otherwise.

[The Grey Wolf]

So this also includes atheism, or is it just religion?

Atheism is the default state into which all humans are born. One does not "teach" an infant or child to be atheist, they simply remain that way unless you teach them otherwise.

Really? Your brain seems to disagree.

[TalamaSKA]

Why shouldn't it be in children's minds?

Same reason (in my opinion) why Creationism, racism, and sincere belief in Reiki probably shouldn't be in children's minds. That is to say, it's okay if children are aware of these concepts, but it's not good if they are taught to nurture these ideas and form their developing minds around them because this results in a sort of stunting of their abilities. It's not impossible for a child to overcome this kind of disadvantage, but I'd prefer they not have to experience it in the first place.

it's not exactly the same thing you said before. at first you said, they shouldnt even know about it, then it shouldn't be nurtured.
Atheism does change your thinking equally, when growing up. disadvantage, why? would you say religion limits your thinking?