Sexism in video games.

[Las Palmeras]

The sex drive, it's a combination of neurotransmitters and responses to physical and emotional features that biologically give us the desire to reproduce. Granted, people can also do it for mere pleasure and not for reproductive purposes.

The implication of this is not necessarily rape (in all cases), however, if female characters are too sexually appeasing it can imply that it's their only purpose in the whole thing is just that. A person stops being a person only to be reduced in state of mind as an object of gratification. Hence, "Sex Object".

The term is bad for precisely the reasons you lay out.
They aren't being treated like an object, their consent is usually required. It is, at worst, flat and undeveloped character depiction. Which is, as I said, something that you can expect to happen when someone isn't the main character.
As such, it stems from the White Heterosexual Male's being the main characters in a lot of media.
It isn't anything to do with sexualizing women or any of that nonsense. As an example to flesh out this argument, you can probably find media where the main character is gay (Though as pointed out, these aren't common.) and involves a similar "chase" with the other male or female being objectified by a character of the same sex.
In addition, it also plays in reverse, with female-centered shows also using the "chase" format and reducing men to someone handsome who carries bags and fucks well.

In that case this really would rely on the narrative style of *insert media here*, then again, it'd be staining at best to actually depict the whole of emotions, actions, and thoughts people generally have when interacting.

But my perception still differs from yours in some cases, due to their flat and undeveloped character depiction it really is easier to think of them as simplified objects instead of people, regardless if they are portrayed to consent or not...albeit this can possibly only exist in fiction which overlaps all the different circumstances and possibilities of real interaction.

[Ostroeuropa]

Defictionalization is Inverse product placement, as in a fictional product from a cartoon/fictional tv show is placed in real life.

None of these examples impact life in any meaningful way apart from a cheesy novelty gift.

That's the level of ridiculous dishonest you've sunk to? I was asked for examples where media impacts real life and provided three different lists of examples where media impacts real life. The correct response is "I guess media can impact real life," not "That's not enough examples!"

Seriously, i'm starting to wonder if you ever read the posts at all.
Where in his post did he say "That's not enough examples"
He said your examples were faulty.
I disagree that the examples are faulty, i'm just pointing out you have responded to things in this thread constantly that people have not said.
You understand that similar objections are not the SAME objections, right?

[Forsher]

Like fucking clockwork.

I mean, in fairness, I'll absolutely agree that having the majority of modern media be misogynistic is bad for society as a whole. It's just really important not to pretend that there is anything resembling parity here. I think NA has, in the past, used the analogy of women-as-a-whole being shot and some of the blood spatter getting on men and ruining their collective shirt. Men would absolutely be better off if their shirt wasn't ruined, but that's not really the main reason why we should try to stop shooting women.

I wasn't trying to say there was parity.

[Choronzon]

Like fucking clockwork.

I mean, in fairness, I'll absolutely agree that having the majority of modern media be misogynistic is bad for society as a whole. It's just really important not to pretend that there is anything resembling parity here. I think NA has, in the past, used the analogy of women-as-a-whole being shot and some of the blood spatter getting on men and ruining their collective shirt. Men would absolutely be better off if their shirt wasn't ruined, but that's not really the main reason why we should try to stop shooting women.

Of course. But we can't have any discussion around here on how X is really harmful to women without the MRA Brigade coming in and yelling "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ MENZ MENZ!"

[Orcoa]

They aren't inherently bad. It's just that some sexist tropes are overused, such as "damsel in distress". And when you reach that point, you need a damn good justification for using it, and most games don't have one.

Just want to mention something about the mario is sexist thing.

At the time mario was made, the trope wasn't overused in video games, so it wasn't really sexist. The hundreds of games after that that used it might have been however..

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

[Nailed to the Perch]

I mean, in fairness, I'll absolutely agree that having the majority of modern media be misogynistic is bad for society as a whole. It's just really important not to pretend that there is anything resembling parity here. I think NA has, in the past, used the analogy of women-as-a-whole being shot and some of the blood spatter getting on men and ruining their collective shirt. Men would absolutely be better off if their shirt wasn't ruined, but that's not really the main reason why we should try to stop shooting women.

I wasn't trying to say there was parity.

That's good, and I wasn't saying that you personally were. Several people in this thread have done so (or have gone farther and gone for the painfully stupid "men are the REAL victims of sexism" argument). I'm agreeing with your statement that men benefit from a more equal world, but highlighting that "it would benefit men" is not really the right reason to combat sexism. It's totally fine for it to be a BONUS reason.

[Grand Britannia]

Just want to mention something about the mario is sexist thing.

At the time mario was made, the trope wasn't overused in video games, so it wasn't really sexist. The hundreds of games after that that used it might have been however..

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

I recall there being a Mario game where Peach saves Mario. Never played it due to the fact that my DS had died.

[Umbra Ac Silentium]

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

I recall there being a Mario game where Peach saves Mario. Never played it due to the fact that my DS had died.

Yeah, and she attacks by crying on things.

[Nailed to the Perch]

I mean, in fairness, I'll absolutely agree that having the majority of modern media be misogynistic is bad for society as a whole. It's just really important not to pretend that there is anything resembling parity here. I think NA has, in the past, used the analogy of women-as-a-whole being shot and some of the blood spatter getting on men and ruining their collective shirt. Men would absolutely be better off if their shirt wasn't ruined, but that's not really the main reason why we should try to stop shooting women.

Of course. But we can't have any discussion around here on how X is really harmful to women without the MRA Brigade coming in and yelling "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ MENZ MENZ!"

I'm just glad the King of the NSG MRAs hasn't shown up yet to explain how Ivy from Soul Calibur is guilty of "boob fraud" for not jumping off the screen and fucking him or something.

[Edlichbury]

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

I recall there being a Mario game where Peach saves Mario. Never played it due to the fact that my DS had died.

She saves him with, I kid you not, magic mood swings. The one game they make a woman hero, she gets magic powers of mood swings.

[Des-Bal]

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

The Damsel in Distress makes sense. Rescue is inherently noble and having the object of rescue be the love interest adds a personal stake. It's overplayed and the elements of "woman weak man strong" have become hopelessly wrapped up in it but it's structurally solid.

[Las Palmeras]

I had to search up MRA...Men's Rights Activists...and not Magnetic Resonance Angiography

[Orcoa]

I recall there being a Mario game where Peach saves Mario. Never played it due to the fact that my DS had died.

Yeah, and she attacks by crying on things.

Or in Super Smash she hits people.....with a frying pan.

Honestly I think she is a parody more then anything else

[Grand Britannia]

I recall there being a Mario game where Peach saves Mario. Never played it due to the fact that my DS had died.

She saves him with, I kid you not, magic mood swings. The one game they make a woman hero, she gets magic powers of mood swings.

I actually find that pretty funny.

[Dalmacie]

Of course. But we can't have any discussion around here on how X is really harmful to women without the MRA Brigade coming in and yelling "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ MENZ MENZ!"

I'm just glad the King of the NSG MRAs hasn't shown up yet to explain how Ivy from Soul Calibur is guilty of "boob fraud" for not jumping off the screen and fucking him or something.

Who would that be?

[Ostroeuropa]

The term is bad for precisely the reasons you lay out.
They aren't being treated like an object, their consent is usually required. It is, at worst, flat and undeveloped character depiction. Which is, as I said, something that you can expect to happen when someone isn't the main character.
As such, it stems from the White Heterosexual Male's being the main characters in a lot of media.
It isn't anything to do with sexualizing women or any of that nonsense. As an example to flesh out this argument, you can probably find media where the main character is gay (Though as pointed out, these aren't common.) and involves a similar "chase" with the other male or female being objectified by a character of the same sex.
In addition, it also plays in reverse, with female-centered shows also using the "chase" format and reducing men to someone handsome who carries bags and fucks well.

In that case this really would rely on the narrative style of *insert media here*, then again, it'd be staining at best to actually depict the whole of emotions, actions, and thoughts people generally have when interacting.

But my perception still differs from yours in some cases, due to their flat and undeveloped character depiction it really is easier to think of them as simplified objects instead of people, regardless if they are portrayed to consent or not...albeit this can possibly only exist in fiction which overlaps all the different circumstances and possibilities of real interaction.

Precisely, it's a problem with the limitations of the media.
So complaining about the limitation isn't going to get us anywhere.
What we have to do instead is work around that limitation.
People are going to be flat characters on occasion. How do we make sure it doesn't impact one demographic heavily?
Spreading out the examples.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

I'm just glad the King of the NSG MRAs hasn't shown up yet to explain how Ivy from Soul Calibur is guilty of "boob fraud" for not jumping off the screen and fucking him or something.

Who would that be?

We do not speak His name.

[Edlichbury]

I don't think it is that Sexist really...I mean there are worse games out there that do it but Mario or Zelda?

Yeah Princess Peach is really the typical damsel in distress but I think they use it for comedy reason more then anything negative.

Also Princess Zelda is not a damsel because she is a strong and powerful woman in her own ways that make her a better character then link.

The Damsel in Distress makes sense. Rescue is inherently noble and having the object of rescue be the love interest adds a personal stake. It's overplayed and the elements of "woman weak man strong" have become hopelessly wrapped up in it but it's structurally solid.

You realize this "WOMEN SHOULD BE HAPPY WE SAVED THEM!" fantasy was debunked a long time ago?

[Des-Bal]

You realize this "WOMEN SHOULD BE HAPPY WE SAVED THEM!" fantasy was debunked a long time ago?

What exactly are you talking about?

[Las Palmeras]

Precisely, it's a problem with the limitations of the media.
So complaining about the limitation isn't going to get us anywhere.
What we have to do instead is work around that limitation.
People are going to be flat characters on occasion. How do we make sure it doesn't impact one demographic heavily?
Spreading out the examples.

I couldn't agree any more.

[Dalmacie]

Who would that be?

We do not speak His name.

Ahhh...Come on.

Who?

[Edlichbury]

She saves him with, I kid you not, magic mood swings. The one game they make a woman hero, she gets magic powers of mood swings.

I actually find that pretty funny.

And these mood swings are powered by a rod called the "Vibe Scepter." The game is probably the worst example of a progressive female hero,

[The Joseon Dynasty]

We do not speak His name.

Ahhh...Come on.

Who?

I actually forgot.

[Las Palmeras]

Ahhh...Come on.

Who?

I actually forgot.

Don't ask me, I had to search up what MRA stood for.

[Edlichbury]

You realize this "WOMEN SHOULD BE HAPPY WE SAVED THEM!" fantasy was debunked a long time ago?

What exactly are you talking about?

This whole "But the men are just being noble and saving the women" delusion was addressed somewhere in the first twenty pages or so.