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What is the purpose of monarchies nowadays?

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Ucropi
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Postby Ucropi » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:59 am

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Vazdania wrote:The purpose of monarchies now adays is to generate revenue.

Unfortunately, we don't have a country where they act as the executive branch.

So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

And the chance of you ever being elected as head of your country is?
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Arglorand
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Postby Arglorand » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:00 am

Ucropi wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

And the chance of you ever being elected as head of your country is?

Far higher than zero, in sharp contrast with monarchy, where the chance is literally zero.
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Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:02 am

Ucropi wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

And the chance of you ever being elected as head of your country is?

It was so much better when you can't elect your local leaders whom you probably knew yourself and had to rely on the monarch to put a competent governor, mayor, count, etc. instead.
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Tlaceceyaya
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Postby Tlaceceyaya » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:03 am

Ucropi wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

And the chance of you ever being elected as head of your country is?

Head of State? 0
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Ucropi
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Postby Ucropi » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:04 am

Arglorand wrote:
Ucropi wrote:And the chance of you ever being elected as head of your country is?

Far higher than zero, in sharp contrast with monarchy, where the chance is literally zero.

Good to see you lack the understanding of the word "literally" Because as long as you're distantly related to the monarchy and enough people die off you can become the leader
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:05 am

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Vazdania wrote:The purpose of monarchies now adays is to generate revenue.

Unfortunately, we don't have a country where they act as the executive branch.

So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

Fine with me, The president already does that. Yes I would.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:07 am

Ucropi wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

And the chance of you ever being elected as head of your country is?

well a little over 1 in 313.9 millionths of a chance.....As not all people want to participate in politics.
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They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:07 am

Vazdania wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.

Fine with me, The president already does that. Yes I would.

Your king demands Diane Feinstein to be your countess.
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Arglorand
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Postby Arglorand » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:10 am

Ucropi wrote:
Arglorand wrote:Far higher than zero, in sharp contrast with monarchy, where the chance is literally zero.

Good to see you lack the understanding of the word "literally" Because as long as you're distantly related to the monarchy and enough people die off you can become the leader

Good to see you lack understanding of how things work, yet think yourself clever enough to be condescending. Enough people will not die off. And there is a distinct chance you are not in the slightest related to the monarchy, since nobility has always bred in a narrow gene pool composed mostly of other nobles.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:10 am

Norstal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Fine with me, The president already does that. Yes I would.

Your king demands Diane Feinstein to be your countess.

:rofl: :bow: :rofl:

Of course!!!
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:11 am

Norstal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Fine with me, The president already does that. Yes I would.

Your king demands Diane Feinstein to be your countess.

Why can't it be a queen? I'd like to see a queen.
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

NSG's Newest Vegetarian!

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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:11 am

Norstal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Fine with me, The president already does that. Yes I would.

Your king demands Diane Feinstein to be your countess.

Image


Tell her to go back to Robert Mugabe already.
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Ucropi
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Postby Ucropi » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:11 am

Arglorand wrote:
Ucropi wrote:Good to see you lack the understanding of the word "literally" Because as long as you're distantly related to the monarchy and enough people die off you can become the leader

Good to see you lack understanding of how things work, yet think yourself clever enough to be condescending. Enough people will not die off. And there is a distinct chance you are not in the slightest related to the monarchy, since nobility has always bred in a narrow gene pool composed mostly of other nobles.

I would say the chance that enough people dying off and you being elected are about the same
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Arglorand
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Postby Arglorand » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:12 am

Ucropi wrote:
Arglorand wrote:Good to see you lack understanding of how things work, yet think yourself clever enough to be condescending. Enough people will not die off. And there is a distinct chance you are not in the slightest related to the monarchy, since nobility has always bred in a narrow gene pool composed mostly of other nobles.

I would say the chance that enough people dying off and you being elected are about the same

Wrong. If that was true, no one in any democratic republic ever would get elected at all, because the chance of enough people dying off is such a small fraction that it can for all intents and purposes be considered zero.
Kosovo is Morrowind. N'wah.
Impeach Dagoth Ur, legalise Daedra worship, the Empire is theft. Nerevarine 3E 427.

Pros: Dunmeri independence, abolition of the Empire, the Daedra, Morag Tong, House Redoran, Ashlander interests, abolitionism, Dissident Priests, canonisation of St. Jiub the Cliff Racer Slayer.
Cons: Imperials, the Empire, the False Tribunal, Dagoth Ur, House Hlaalu, Imperials, the Eight Divines, "Talos", "Nords", Imperial unionism, Imperials.

I am a: Social Democrat | Bright green | Republican | Intersectional feminist | Civic nationalist | Multiculturalist
(and i blatantly stole this from Old Tyrannia)

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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:12 am

Benuty wrote:
Norstal wrote:Your king demands Diane Feinstein to be your countess.

Image


Tell her to go back to Robert Mugabe already.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:13 am

Vazdania wrote:
Norstal wrote:Your king demands Diane Feinstein to be your countess.

Why can't it be a queen? I'd like to see a queen.

You want Queen Diane Feinstein? I'm as liberal as they come and that shit scares me.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:16 am

Norstal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Why can't it be a queen? I'd like to see a queen.

You want Queen Diane Feinstein? I'm as liberal as they come and that shit scares me.

Ew no. Like Queen Ann Coulter or something.
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Postby Bluvil » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:19 am

Ucropi wrote:
Arglorand wrote:Good to see you lack understanding of how things work, yet think yourself clever enough to be condescending. Enough people will not die off. And there is a distinct chance you are not in the slightest related to the monarchy, since nobility has always bred in a narrow gene pool composed mostly of other nobles.

I would say the chance that enough people dying off and you being elected are about the same


Wrong.

To get elected I have to:
a) Be accepted by a political party (not mandatory but could help)
b) Convince my peers to vote for me instead of other people.

To become monarch I have to:
a) Be related to the current monarch (unlikely)
b) Wait for everyone who shares a closer relation to die, or kill them (almost impossible)
c) Wait for the current monarch to die or abdicate (As Charles will tell you, that can be a very long wait)

Or, were you saying that Arglorand himself stood next to no chance of being elected? If so, nice, very nice indeed.
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Postby Luziyca » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:19 am

Czechanada wrote:
Ucropi wrote:Except for the Canadian born Governor General that is attainable to anyone and is the embodiment of the Queen in Canada


Which isn't the head of state, but merely is a representative of it.

Rather, s/he represents the head of state, that happens to be the Queen of the United Kingdom.

Czechanada wrote:
Luziyca wrote:As a loyal citizen of the Dominion of Canada (I prefer it being a Dominion, not just Canada), a major purpose of monarchy (well, the one we have) is to symbolize our ties with the United Kingdom, our motherland. It symbolizes cultural ties to our British motherland, and plus, she looks wonderful on our coinage and $20 bill.

Before you think that the Queen of Canada ignores us, there were 13 royal tours before 1939, 24 after 1939 not counting Elizabeth II (25 if you count the 1939 Royal Tour), and the Queen has come 12 times. In total the Royals have come at least 50 times in Canada's history.


That doesn't seem fair to the Quebecois and other Canadians of French and non-British descent.


Well, while we have Quebecois, which do speak French, the head of state is the Queen of the Dominion of Canada, who in turn is the Queen of the United Kingdom.
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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:20 am

Vazdania wrote:
Norstal wrote:You want Queen Diane Feinstein? I'm as liberal as they come and that shit scares me.

Ew no. Like Queen Ann Coulter or something.

Naw, I gotta give an example of a monarchy that you wouldn't like in order to show you why that's bad.

Because in the real world, fantasies don't come true.
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Benuty
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Postby Benuty » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:20 am

Norstal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Ew no. Like Queen Ann Coulter or something.

Naw, I gotta give an example of a monarchy that you wouldn't like in order to show you why that's bad.

Because in the real world, fantasies don't come true.


Unless your Charlemagne.
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:24 am

Norstal wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Ew no. Like Queen Ann Coulter or something.

Naw, I gotta give an example of a monarchy that you wouldn't like in order to show you why that's bad.

Because in the real world, fantasies don't come true.

Eh.....It's not that bad really.
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Postby Oneracon » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:25 am

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Vazdania wrote:The purpose of monarchies now adays is to generate revenue.

Unfortunately, we don't have a country where they act as the executive branch.

So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.


Most modern monarchies are democracies (to name a few: UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Luxembourg)

The only difference between having a non-elected figurehead versus an elected figurehead (i.e. Germany) is the lower cost of not having national elections for said figureheads at 4+ year intervals.
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Ucropi
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Postby Ucropi » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:27 am

Oneracon wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.


Most modern monarchies are democracies (to name a few: UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Luxembourg)

The only difference between having a non-elected figurehead versus an elected figurehead (i.e. Germany) is the lower cost of not having national elections for said figureheads at 4+ year intervals.

Technically Canada, Australia and New Zealand are part of the UK so shouldn't be counted separately on the list
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Vazdania
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Postby Vazdania » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:27 am

Oneracon wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So, what about the fact that you won't be the monarch, and the monarch could do things you don't like? You'd have no recourse, unlike in a democracy where if there are enough people, you can change things.


Most modern monarchies are democracies (to name a few: UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Luxembourg)

The only difference between having a non-elected figurehead versus an elected figurehead (i.e. Germany) is the lower cost of not having national elections for said figureheads at 4+ year intervals.

We were talking about Executive monarchs. Not Ceremonial Monarchs.
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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