Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez

[Andaluciae]

Hugo Chavez is evil. America is the most democratic country in the world. Hell, it's where democracy was invented! Castro is old and will soon die. Then the Americans will return to Cuba and everything will be as it was before. I think America should wait for Castro to die, then take over by intelligence, but Chavez should be nuked and then invaded. What is the use of all those nukes if theyr never used? Really, who would respond to nuking Chavez? I mean, just a few nukes...

I won't even comment on what you have said. Non Aligned States is doing better than me, and all your points are ignorant, misinformed, and frankly, almost irrational.

I might be off...but I'd be almost certain that NC is being sarcastic.

[Aelosia]

Hugo Chavez is evil. America is the most democratic country in the world. Hell, it's where democracy was invented! Castro is old and will soon die. Then the Americans will return to Cuba and everything will be as it was before. I think America should wait for Castro to die, then take over by intelligence, but Chavez should be nuked and then invaded. What is the use of all those nukes if theyr never used? Really, who would respond to nuking Chavez? I mean, just a few nukes...

I won't even comment on what you have said. Non Aligned States is doing better than me, and all your points are ignorant, misinformed, and frankly, almost irrational.

I might be off...but I'd be almost certain that NC is being sarcastic.

No, no, no. He is even trying to explain himself. No sarcasm over there.

[Andaluciae]

Hugo Chavez is evil. America is the most democratic country in the world. Hell, it's where democracy was invented! Castro is old and will soon die. Then the Americans will return to Cuba and everything will be as it was before. I think America should wait for Castro to die, then take over by intelligence, but Chavez should be nuked and then invaded. What is the use of all those nukes if theyr never used? Really, who would respond to nuking Chavez? I mean, just a few nukes...

I won't even comment on what you have said. Non Aligned States is doing better than me, and all your points are ignorant, misinformed, and frankly, almost irrational.

I might be off...but I'd be almost certain that NC is being sarcastic.

No, no, no. He is even trying to explain himself. No sarcasm over there.

It's way too over the top. It's got to be a prolonged parody.

[Northern Cydonia]

Bah, in ancient Greece they had slaves they captured in wars and it was a democracy of a few.

And America had slaves, and only practiced democracy only among white males. The more you open your mouth, the more you demonstrate your ignorance.

Half of what you write are attacks against myself, not what I say. You seem ignorant to the fact that black people were slave owners too. Type "black slave owners" in Google. The Greeks only invented the word "democracy" they didn't invent what we consider democracy today.

And they still have kings and queens in Europe.

Symbolic monarchy does not preclude democracy. Something it appears your mind is incapable of comprehending, but given what you've had to say so far, it does not appear that you are capable of comprehending much more than that blatant falsehood of "I need no evidence! America #1 cause I say so!" so prevalent among uneducated yokels barely able to tie their shoelaces, much less post on internet boards.

More personal attacks! This time you devoted more than 50% to it. All you actually said is "Symbolic monarchy does not preclude democracy". If it's symbolic, then symbolically abolish it! America IS #1 and not just because I say so, you European ingrates! We helped you get rid of Hitler, helped you in two world wars at the expense of our lives, and after that, we built your countries that you ruined. We also accepted tons of refugees, during ww2, Jews and others that were persecuted in Europe. After that, we protected you from being overrun by Stalin and the Reds. All that just shortly after we got rid of the terror of the Redcoats! And what do we get in return?! Just criticism and yadda yadda about us being uneducated. Uneducated?? We got to space, to the Moon, we invented electricity, computers and most of the technology. What did you invent? Torture devices for the Inquisition! Those Europeans who wanted to do science had to flee Europe to America, like Einstein, Fermi, Tesla... Your monarchy was NOT symbolic at the time we were fighting the Redcoats! And it was not so long ago... So, yes, America is #1 ! You better remember it!

But McDonalds alone has more money than them...

Not only a falsehood, but one that demonstrates that you never attended school apparently if you think corporatism has anything at all to do with political rulership.

More crap! You think politicians don't have a corporate backing? And even more personal attacks. I guess the next thing youre going to say is that my IQ is low, right?

Most countries have no nuclear weapons, those few that do have poor delivery systems that cannot reach America, and too few weak warheads to do any real damage. I think if America nukes its greatest enemies, others will fall in, out of fear. Since Japan was nuked, it became a very nice, friendly and pleasant nation. So...

So by that rationale, turning America into plate glass courtesy of Russian nuclear weapons will get rid of the fat, uneducated American hicks and make the survivors friendly?

Capital idea!

Ruskies will never launch. If they didn't do that when they were a hundred times more powerful than today, they certainly arent going to risk us turning them into radioactive debris today, over some puny Latin American dictatorship, that was always in the American sphere of influence anyway. But itd teach a small nation some respect for the Boss...

[Northern Cydonia]

any US resident here who's ever refuelled their car at CITGO has done so at a wholly-owned subsidiary of the government-owned Venezuelan petroleum company Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A.

Thats exactly why we should depose the dictator, so we can resume the oil extraction. He's wasting it, we can put it to a better use, to develop technology and master new ideas, build better machines, make life better, cure diseases. All they do with that oil is drive their stinkin '60s cars around and complain about the US of A. It's like British leaving the African tribes to use "their" uranium ... for what? They didn't even know what it was, and even if they tried, theyd just contaminate themselves. The people voting for Chavez are uneducated and they dont know what theyre voting for. Give them some uranium, and youll see they cant do shit with it! Only if they call the Ruskies...

[Buffett and Colbert]

Thats exactly why we should depose the dictator, so we can resume the oil extraction. He's wasting it, we can put it to a better use, to develop technology and master new ideas, build better machines, make life better, cure diseases.

Lol. Do you really have any idea of the apportionment of oil funds within Venezuela are? I daresay there's rampant corruption there, but oil doesn't bring riches, you know. And as far as I'm aware, there is no proof that Chavez actually did something illegal to increase his terms (unless the Constitutional Convention was illegal, I'm not sure of the details).

All they do with that oil is drive their stinkin '60s cars around and complain about the US of A.

You don't know very many Venezuelans, do you?

It's like British leaving the African tribes to use "their" uranium ... for what? They didn't even know what it was, and even if they tried, theyd just contaminate themselves.

I lol'd.

The people voting for Chavez are uneducated and they dont know what theyre voting for. Give them some uranium, and youll see they cant do shit with it! Only if they call the Ruskies...

Tú vas a cojer un MONTON de mierda de varias personas aquí.

[South Norwega]

any US resident here who's ever refuelled their car at CITGO has done so at a wholly-owned subsidiary of the government-owned Venezuelan petroleum company Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A.

Thats exactly why we should depose the dictator, so we can resume the oil extraction. He's wasting it, we can put it to a better use, to develop technology and master new ideas, build better machines, make life better, cure diseases. All they do with that oil is drive their stinkin '60s cars around and complain about the US of A. It's like British leaving the African tribes to use "their" uranium ... for what? They didn't even know what it was, and even if they tried, theyd just contaminate themselves. The people voting for Chavez are uneducated and they dont know what theyre voting for. Give them some uranium, and youll see they cant do shit with it! Only if they call the Ruskies...

Let us inject oil into people to cure them of cancer!

[Non Aligned States]

You seem ignorant to the fact that black people were slave owners too.

This is called "Moving goal posts". It's a common tactic by ignoramuses and retards who get caught on their rubbish and don't want to admit it. American democracy was founded strictly for its citizenry, which by law, did not include blacks. Claiming that blacks had slaves doesn't help your case a smidgen. It only shows your dishonesty.

The Greeks only invented the word "democracy" they didn't invent what we consider democracy today.

Are you trying to set the gold standard for ignorance? Because you're doing a very good job. Rule by citizenry through consensus is by definition, democracy, which is what the Greeks had.

More personal attacks!

Personal? Oh no. I'm just pointing out that your arguments, based as they are on absolute fabrications, are the arguments an ignoramus would use. Especially an ignoramus who uses propaganda in lieu of facts because they can't be bothered to think and would rather be spoon fed nationalism. If you want to take it personally, well, if the shoe fits.

America IS #1 and not just because I say so, you European ingrates!

A popular American hick assumption is that anyone who disagrees with them in English must be European, and an ingrate. You're trying to live up to the trope I see. The rest of your argument isn't worth looking at, since it runs on the same kind of rabid nationalism that ignores facts (like Russia doing a great deal more than America did in WWII in terms of manpower contribution) in favor of false propaganda and warmongering one would expect of say, Soviet Russia or Fascist Germany.

No matter. Nuclear sterilization of your demographic, something which you have advocated on principle, will solve that.

[Aelosia]

Half of what you write are attacks against myself, not what I say. You seem ignorant to the fact that black people were slave owners too. Type "black slave owners" in Google. The Greeks only invented the word "democracy" they didn't invent what we consider democracy today.

What you consider democracy is american democracy then? How cute. Democracy is greek. Without the greeks, your founding fathers wouldn't know what to do for starters after gaining independence from the british. Unless it was to appoint a King of their own, that is.

What was the percentage of Black slave owners? In which year did you freed your slaves? Until which year you maintained segregated schools?

This backwater country, this Banana Republic that is Venezuela, freed its slaves in 1854, from the last provinces that opposed. Since 1810, venezuelan slaves were free with a few exceptions. And with no civil war, mind you. Who's the paladin of civil rights now?

By the way, your country was created around french ideas of freedom. From french political writers. Imagine that, you proud american sucking it from cheese eating surrender monkeys!

Regarding writing against you, well, you write so less, and what you write is so pointless, that onle one phrase is enough to debunk your point. You have to fill the space with something, I guess.

More personal attacks! This time you devoted more than 50% to it. All you actually said is "Symbolic monarchy does not preclude democracy". If it's symbolic, then symbolically abolish it! America IS #1 and not just because I say so, you European ingrates! We helped you get rid of Hitler, helped you in two world wars at the expense of our lives, and after that, we built your countries that you ruined. We also accepted tons of refugees, during ww2, Jews and others that were persecuted in Europe. After that, we protected you from being overrun by Stalin and the Reds. All that just shortly after we got rid of the terror of the Redcoats! And what do we get in return?! Just criticism and yadda yadda about us being uneducated. Uneducated?? We got to space, to the Moon, we invented electricity, computers and most of the technology. What did you invent? Torture devices for the Inquisition! Those Europeans who wanted to do science had to flee Europe to America, like Einstein, Fermi, Tesla... Your monarchy was NOT symbolic at the time we were fighting the Redcoats! And it was not so long ago... So, yes, America is #1 ! You better remember it!

This is not even worth commenting. Just an ego exercise for you. The country with the name of a continent, that is.

Anyway, the fact that you label Venezuela as a Latin American dictatorship alone demonstrates your ignorance with the issue at hand.

[Aelosia]

any US resident here who's ever refuelled their car at CITGO has done so at a wholly-owned subsidiary of the government-owned Venezuelan petroleum company Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A.

Thats exactly why we should depose the dictator, so we can resume the oil extraction. He's wasting it, we can put it to a better use, to develop technology and master new ideas, build better machines, make life better, cure diseases. All they do with that oil is drive their stinkin '60s cars around and complain about the US of A. It's like British leaving the African tribes to use "their" uranium ... for what? They didn't even know what it was, and even if they tried, theyd just contaminate themselves. The people voting for Chavez are uneducated and they dont know what theyre voting for. Give them some uranium, and youll see they cant do shit with it! Only if they call the Ruskies...

I bet there are more stinkin' 60's cars in your country than in mine. All those rednecks...For sure they are more prepared than most venezuelans.

I am aware of what you call by "making life better", that is translated as "help americans get fatter".

I'm pretty sure most americans that do vote are aware of what they are doing. That's why Palin got so high, and that is just an instance. Or that austrian movie star as governor of one of the largest states. Yeah, that was smart, and prepared, and intelligent.

Anyway, I would advise the both of you start discussing in a smarter, more quiet, civilized way. The amount of lines dedicated to yourselves instead of your points is amazing.

[Galloism]

They are both irrelevant to be honest. One leads a banana republic, and the other is nothing but a former leader of an irrelevant island.

Why irrelevant?

Now ask him if he knows where Cuba is on a map and if he knows, actually knows anythng other than what he hears on the media about said 'irrelevant island'. I'm sure his answer to that will be 'fascinating'.

[San Pellegrino Romana]

They are both evil pigs, although it is hard to decide who is worse.

[Spetsnazastan]

What is there to say about Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez?

Fidel Castro is this old, retired, former Cuban dictator who overthrew Batista 51 years ago and remained in power for 49 years. His brother Raul (which he appointed) has taken his place since 2008.

Hugo Chavez is the leader of a banana republic that tries to bring attention to his regime and posture for more power.

Venezuela is not a Banana Republic. Read a dossier and try again.

They are both irrelevant to be honest. One leads a banana republic, and the other is nothing but a former leader of an irrelevant island.

See above.


And to the OP. Fidel Castro is not president of Cuba anymore. Are we discussing past or present events here?

Past events and the Cuban Revolution in general.

[Northern Cydonia]

Thats exactly why we should depose the dictator, so we can resume the oil extraction. He's wasting it, we can put it to a better use, to develop technology and master new ideas, build better machines, make life better, cure diseases.

Lol. Do you really have any idea of the apportionment of oil funds within Venezuela are? I daresay there's rampant corruption there, but oil doesn't bring riches, you know. And as far as I'm aware, there is no proof that Chavez actually did something illegal to increase his terms (unless the Constitutional Convention was illegal, I'm not sure of the details).

All they do with that oil is drive their stinkin '60s cars around and complain about the US of A.

You don't know very many Venezuelans, do you?

No, but I'm pretty sure you don't either. But still, you talk of rampant corruption there.

It's like British leaving the African tribes to use "their" uranium ... for what? They didn't even know what it was, and even if they tried, theyd just contaminate themselves.

I lol'd.

The people voting for Chavez are uneducated and they dont know what theyre voting for. Give them some uranium, and youll see they cant do shit with it! Only if they call the Ruskies...

Tú vas a cojer un MONTON de mierda de varias personas aquí.

Yeah, if an insult is in Spanish, then I will not understand it, thats the idea, right? Go use Spanish in some Venezuela-based Spanish-language internet forum, then. And what exactly is wrong with the claim they can't do shit with uranium? They don't have the tech as they don't invest in it. Thats not American fault.

You seem ignorant to the fact that black people were slave owners too.

This is called "Moving goal posts". It's a common tactic by ignoramuses and retards who get caught on their rubbish and don't want to admit it. American democracy was founded strictly for its citizenry, which by law, did not include blacks. Claiming that blacks had slaves doesn't help your case a smidgen. It only shows your dishonesty.

So far as you know what it is called. Haven't you heard, we have an African American president now? I'm not sayin hes doing a very good job, but wheres the law preventing him from becoming a prez?

The Greeks only invented the word "democracy" they didn't invent what we consider democracy today.

Are you trying to set the gold standard for ignorance? Because you're doing a very good job. Rule by citizenry through consensus is by definition, democracy, which is what the Greeks had.

The Greeks, sure. Four of five people were slaves, and it was a democracy, riiiiight. And they voted. Riiiiight. Just because its a Greek word doesn't mean it was the same for them. Would YOU like to live in their "democracy"?? They tossed their kids from cliffs in Sparta at the time. How's that for "rule by citizenry through consensus"??

More personal attacks!

Personal? Oh no. I'm just pointing out that your arguments, based as they are on absolute fabrications, are the arguments an ignoramus would use. Especially an ignoramus who uses propaganda in lieu of facts because they can't be bothered to think and would rather be spoon fed nationalism. If you want to take it personally, well, if the shoe fits.

Go a few quotes back, and you'll find yourself saying "ignoramuses and retards". So I guessed correctly my IQ was going to be the next on your insult list. Sure, thats no personal attack...

America IS #1 and not just because I say so, you European ingrates!

A popular American hick assumption is that anyone who disagrees with them in English must be European, and an ingrate. You're trying to live up to the trope I see. The rest of your argument isn't worth looking at, since it runs on the same kind of rabid nationalism that ignores facts (like Russia doing a great deal more than America did in WWII in terms of manpower contribution) in favor of false propaganda and warmongering one would expect of say, Soviet Russia or Fascist Germany.

No matter. Nuclear sterilization of your demographic, something which you have advocated on principle, will solve that.

So now youre threatening? We certainly should have left Europe to rot in its own shit until the Ruskies got over with it, and when they finished raping and murdering those who miraculously survived Hitler, only then should we have intervened.

Half of what you write are attacks against myself, not what I say. You seem ignorant to the fact that black people were slave owners too. Type "black slave owners" in Google. The Greeks only invented the word "democracy" they didn't invent what we consider democracy today.

What you consider democracy is american democracy then? How cute. Democracy is greek. Without the greeks, your founding fathers wouldn't know what to do for starters after gaining independence from the british. Unless it was to appoint a King of their own, that is.

What was the percentage of Black slave owners? In which year did you freed your slaves? Until which year you maintained segregated schools?

This backwater country, this Banana Republic that is Venezuela, freed its slaves in 1854, from the last provinces that opposed. Since 1810, venezuelan slaves were free with a few exceptions. And with no civil war, mind you. Who's the paladin of civil rights now?

By the way, your country was created around french ideas of freedom. From french political writers. Imagine that, you proud american sucking it from cheese eating surrender monkeys!

Regarding writing against you, well, you write so less, and what you write is so pointless, that onle one phrase is enough to debunk your point. You have to fill the space with something, I guess.

Thank you, youre cute too. At least your avatar is. I take it youre expressing personal feelings because youre from Latin America, right? It shows, you know. So if Venezuela was so progressive, why didn't they invent electricity, cars, planes and computers, build their country to be better than the US and all that before the US did? And where exactly do you write from? From some Latin American favela, or did you have to get to the US of A to do that? Honestly! And is it US responsibility that, say, Brazil is full of shacks and crime?

This is not even worth commenting. Just an ego exercise for you. The country with the name of a continent, that is.

Anyway, the fact that you label Venezuela as a Latin American dictatorship alone demonstrates your ignorance with the issue at hand.

I simply listed what America did for Europe, and instead of pointing to what you see as not being true in it, you say that I am ignorant? What a fine argument... There are other countries named after their continents ya know, say, Australia. They didn't have to fight Mexico, though. How about Europe? They believe theyre a continent, when in fact, they are not, thats the same continent with Asia. But they think theyre so important that they call it a continent... And they still cant prevent their own wars without the US, even today! If the US left them to their own, theyd resume fighting. And the Latin Americans would produce drugs.

[Northern Cydonia]

2ALL U WHINERS!



GOD BLESS AMERICA!

[Non Aligned States]

*snip*

Well isn't this a lovely collection of garbage?

1: Goalpost shifting. Saying that Greece didn't invent democracy because they had slaves and then claiming America invented it, while having slaves and then jumping around and claiming that they don't have them anymore so that's fine.

2: Lies. Claiming that rule by consensus via citizenry is not democracy.

3: A few red herrings. Such as the idea of a black American president now somehow negating historical American run slavery.

Andaluciae might be right. You could be 4channer out for lulz.

Or you could be just honestly demonstrating all the traits inherent in the ignorant American jackass stereotype who is incapable of basic math or reading because they're too busy marching in jackboots yelling "America #1" in between bible thumping sessions.

And why yes. America holds the #1 position in things like national debt, worst public health care, rich-poor divides, shrinking populace relevance in politics beyond serving as sheep, and falling educational standards in first world countries.

Of course, if you hold to your current standards, I would wager that all this will be ignored by you, because you're too busy fulfilling the stereotype of plugging your ears and shrieking "America #1" at the top of your lungs. Perhaps in the hopes of getting candy from your 'representative' for being a good unthinking peon.

As to claiming that I'm threatening murder, I find that a laughable concept. I am simply pointing out that since you feel nuclear eradication of countries is not only acceptable, but desirable because you don't like them, why should I be constrained against wiping out an entire demographic with the same means, for the same reasons? If you happen to be in that demographic to be exterminated, well, tough luck. You should have picked better friends.

[The Atlantian islands]

I bet there are more stinkin' 60's cars in your country than in mine. All those rednecks...For sure they are more prepared than most venezuelans.

I am aware of what you call by "making life better", that is translated as "help americans get fatter".

I'm pretty sure most americans that do vote are aware of what they are doing. That's why Palin got so high, and that is just an instance. Or that austrian movie star as governor of one of the largest states. Yeah, that was smart, and prepared, and intelligent.

Anyway, I would advise the both of you start discussing in a smarter, more quiet, civilized way. The amount of lines dedicated to yourselves instead of your points is amazing.

Al though he didn't really state it diplomatically, it's true that Chavez uses extreme populism to gather the poor, rather uneducated vote of the country, whom he then convinces to fear and even hate the middle the middle class, thus turning the entire country against itself.

Making life better means alot of things, improving standard of living, improving economic opportunity, improving products that make life more enjoyable . . . not forcing anyone to get fat. If people get fat, it's of their own individual choice.(Well unless it's genetic but of course we are not talking about that) I'd certainly prefer the option to enjoy my life and get fat than live in a powder keg where you can hardly publicly express your opinion without fear of government reaction (which is taking a chance assuming that you live long enough, not getting murdered...Caracas is one of the most unsafe areas in the entire world.).

Anyway, Americans have actually stopped getting fatter, so your argument is moot. Venezuelans are still living in a hyper-violent, quasi-dictatorial, opressisive, socialist society. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/health/14obese.html

Palin and McCain got alot of votes because many people (rightly) were not convinced Obama was ready for the job, which does not directly translate into like for Palin (or McCain). It's the same reason Bush won his 2nd term. First people were saying . . . "I'd vote for 'Anybody but Bush'" . . . but then when it was realized that Kerry would be running, many, many added "except Kerry". Voting against one opponent doesn't always translate into admiration for the other, you should know that.

And just what the hell is wrong with Schwarzenegger having his chance at Gov of Kalifornien? The state was fucked up, he's an intelligent guy, loved his state and tried to get into power to fix some problems. He hasn't been having much luck but to be fair that's more to California's structural problems (something way beyond anyone one person's control) than his. Why do you oppose this so much? Would you prefer he did thing a la Venezuelana and just tried to a military coup in California instead? It is a free country, he is a citizen, and thus is as equal as anyone to run for a non-presidential office.

En serior no se lo que quieres decir con todo lo que has escrito . . . . no has dicho nada que tiene relevancia....

[The Parkus Empire]

Al though he didn't really state it diplomatically, it's true that Chavez uses extreme populism to gather the poor, rather uneducated vote of the country, whom he then convinces to fear and even hate the middle the middle class, thus turning the entire country against itself.

I don't see politics in the U.S. working differently, do you?

Making life better means alot of things, improving standard of living, improving economic opportunity, improving products that make life more enjoyable . . . not forcing anyone to get fat. If people get fat, it's of their own individual choice.(Well unless it's genetic but of course we are not talking about that) I'd certainly prefer the option to enjoy my life and get fat than live in a powder keg where you can hardly publicly express your opinion without fear of government reaction (which is taking a chance assuming that you live long enough, not getting murdered...Caracas is one of the most unsafe areas in the entire world.).

Yeah, but haven't you spoken favorably of leaders who considerably decreased the standard of living for their opposition?

Anyway, Americans have actually stopped getting fatter, so your argument is moot. Venezuelans are still living in a hyper-violent, quasi-dictatorial, opressisive, socialist society. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/health/14obese.html

Palin and McCain got alot of votes because many people (rightly) were not convinced Obama was ready for the job, which does not directly translate into like for Palin (or McCain). It's the same reason Bush won his 2nd term. First people were saying . . . "I'd vote for 'Anybody but Bush'" . . . but then when it was realized that Kerry would be running, many, many added "except Kerry". Voting against one opponent doesn't always translate into admiration for the other, you should know that.

And just what the hell is wrong with Schwarzenegger having his chance at Gov of Kalifornien? The state was fucked up, he's an intelligent guy, loved his state and tried to get into power to fix some problems. He hasn't been having much luck but to be fair that's more to California's structural problems (something way beyond anyone one person's control) than his. Why do you oppose this so much? Would you prefer he did thing a la Venezuelana and just tried to a military coup in California instead? It is a free country, he is a citizen, and thus is as equal as anyone to run for a non-presidential office.

En serior no se lo que quieres decir con todo lo que has escrito . . . . no has dicho nada que tiene relevancia....

Yeah, I don't see what's wrong with Schwarzenegger, myself, he's fairly progressive. He needs to cut the hell out of spending, but I don't know how he could, even if he wanted to.

Overall, I think you are misinformed about Venezuela. The place isn't some retro-commie-dictatorship; it's a socialist democracy, as far as I know. Even France has had an attempted coup (by the Foreign Legion) in the last few decades.

[The Atlantian islands]

Al though he didn't really state it diplomatically, it's true that Chavez uses extreme populism to gather the poor, rather uneducated vote of the country, whom he then convinces to fear and even hate the middle the middle class, thus turning the entire country against itself.

I don't see politics in the U.S. working differently, do you?

Well, no. Nobody in mainstream American politics uses extreme populism to convince the poor to hate the middle class . . .

Making life better means alot of things, improving standard of living, improving economic opportunity, improving products that make life more enjoyable . . . not forcing anyone to get fat. If people get fat, it's of their own individual choice.(Well unless it's genetic but of course we are not talking about that) I'd certainly prefer the option to enjoy my life and get fat than live in a powder keg where you can hardly publicly express your opinion without fear of government reaction (which is taking a chance assuming that you live long enough, not getting murdered...Caracas is one of the most unsafe areas in the entire world.).

Yeah, but haven't you spoken favorably of leaders who considerably decreased the standard of living for their opposition?

What kind of oppession are we talking about? Violenting paramilitary opposition, or simply opposition voters? The former, maybe depending on the context (what you said is too general), the latter - of course not.

Anyway, Americans have actually stopped getting fatter, so your argument is moot. Venezuelans are still living in a hyper-violent, quasi-dictatorial, opressisive, socialist society. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/health/14obese.html

Palin and McCain got alot of votes because many people (rightly) were not convinced Obama was ready for the job, which does not directly translate into like for Palin (or McCain). It's the same reason Bush won his 2nd term. First people were saying . . . "I'd vote for 'Anybody but Bush'" . . . but then when it was realized that Kerry would be running, many, many added "except Kerry". Voting against one opponent doesn't always translate into admiration for the other, you should know that.

And just what the hell is wrong with Schwarzenegger having his chance at Gov of Kalifornien? The state was fucked up, he's an intelligent guy, loved his state and tried to get into power to fix some problems. He hasn't been having much luck but to be fair that's more to California's structural problems (something way beyond anyone one person's control) than his. Why do you oppose this so much? Would you prefer he did thing a la Venezuelana and just tried to a military coup in California instead? It is a free country, he is a citizen, and thus is as equal as anyone to run for a non-presidential office.

En serior no se lo que quieres decir con todo lo que has escrito . . . . no has dicho nada que tiene relevancia....

Yeah, I don't see what's wrong with Schwarzenegger, myself, he's fairly progressive. He needs to cut the hell out of spending, but I don't know how he could, even if he wanted to.

People critical of America often portray him in a negative light because his is an example of the American dream.

Overall, I think you are misinformed about Venezuela. The place isn't some retro-commie-dictatorship; it's a socialist democracy, as far as I know.

Well you can think what you think, but I naturally stand by exactly what I said: "Venezuelans are still living in a hyper-violent, quasi-dictatorial, opressisive, socialist society." The Venezuelans I am friends with who live abroad here in Europe because their families fled that Chavez induced shithole have only reinforced my opinion.

[Non Aligned States]

Well, no. Nobody in mainstream American politics uses extreme populism to convince the poor to hate the middle class . . .

No, they just use it to make the poor hate the liberals, non-Christians, gays, Mexicans, socialists, and whatever is the hate flavor of the month. It's not that different from Venezuela is it?

Well you can think what you think, but I naturally stand by exactly what I said: "Venezuelans are still living in a hyper-violent, quasi-dictatorial, opressisive, socialist society."

I suspect that while that may be true for Caracas, Cabimas might be a wee bit safer. Also, I imagine the crimes in Caracas can be primarily attributed to the overcrowded slums they have there. A corporatist, free market society wouldn't make much of a difference in that, given how such societies have failed to fix similar problems in say, Detroit.

[Northern Cydonia]

Well isn't this a lovely collection of garbage?

Youre just provoking, and when you get an answer, you say garbage. It could have been a nice end of thread, with the flag I posted there.

1: Goalpost shifting. Saying that Greece didn't invent democracy because they had slaves and then claiming America invented it, while having slaves and then jumping around and claiming that they don't have them anymore so that's fine.
2: Lies. Claiming that rule by consensus via citizenry is not democracy.
3: A few red herrings. Such as the idea of a black American president now somehow negating historical American run slavery.

1:Yep, they also invented moving of planets (Archimedes and his lever) but never actually moved any. Slavery was a very short episode in the American history, and it was the Europeans who brought slaves. With the advent of democracy and human rights (genuine American inventions, during which time Europe had only monarchies and Greek democracy was nowhere to be seen) slavery was abolished.
2: Consensus requires everybody to agree on something. The slaves did not agree to being slaves. This point completely disregards any Greek cities apart from, I think, Athens. Sparta was also Greek, and it had no democracy, just an iron fist. And what happened to that democracy of theirs? They had to call Spartans for help when they were invaded.
3: I am primarily concerned with what America is today, not what it was while it had to fight for freedom. Admittedly it took a while to get rid of purely European dominated thinking.

demonstrating all the traits inherent in the ignorant American jackass stereotype who is incapable of basic math or reading because they're too busy marching in jackboots yelling "America #1" in between bible thumping sessions.

Nevertheless, all I said was true. The basic math thing is a result of extreme bigotry, and I suspect it is also "made in Europe" as many Europeans tend to think its still the Victorian era. Common folk know little math in every country, its as simple as that. Did you ever stop to think how did the morons you describe, unable to read and calculate, manage to build computers, spacecrafts, all the other stuff? But I do understand people have issues with the Americans, the truth always hurts.

And why yes. America holds the #1 position in things like national debt, worst public health care, rich-poor divides, shrinking populace relevance in politics beyond serving as sheep, and falling educational standards in first world countries.

Yeah, good thing these problems do not exist in Venezuela! Whenever an American requires medical attention, he goes to Venezuela, riiiight. National debt? What about the debt for what we gave Europeans and Russians during and after ww2? The debt, healthcare etc. are a problem alright, but thats why we elected Obama. If he fails, we'll get someone else. So far, he spent too much of his time kissing asses of foreign leaders instead of KICKING their asses. He should always keep in mind who votes for him. Now THAT's democracy!

Of course, if you hold to your current standards, I would wager that all this will be ignored by you, because you're too busy fulfilling the stereotype of plugging your ears and shrieking "America #1" at the top of your lungs. Perhaps in the hopes of getting candy from your 'representative' for being a good unthinking peon.

A peon? You obviously have issues with the Americans. Are you, by any chance, from some European nation that had colonies until recently? Well, I'm sorry for your loss.

I am simply pointing out that since you feel nuclear eradication of countries is not only acceptable, but desirable because you don't like them, why should I be constrained against wiping out an entire demographic with the same means, for the same reasons? If you happen to be in that demographic to be exterminated, well, tough luck. You should have picked better friends.

Nobody is going to eradicate anyone in America, since they have no means to do so. Only the Ruskies have the means, but they keep them close because they have no other military and cannot make more nukes. Kinda reminds me of The Ring from Lord of the Rings... You know, "my precious!" Everything they had is now rusting, and they can barely pay for food for conventional forces. All they have to defend their very homeland are those nukes, and they won't be launching them over Chavez. Chavez should back down and then he'd no longer be facing our might. Simple, isn't it? What do you think we were making those nukes for? 4th of July? We paid a fortune to invent and create them and of course we should use them, if all else fails.

[The Parkus Empire]

Well, no. Nobody in mainstream American politics uses extreme populism to convince the poor to hate the middle class . . .

I would say that has been an indirect tactic for years. More open about hatred of the upper-class, though.

[What kind of oppession are we talking about? Violenting paramilitary opposition, or simply opposition voters? The former, maybe depending on the context (what you said is too general), the latter - of course not.

Haven't you supported governments that were fascist?

Well you can think what you think, but I naturally stand by exactly what I said: "Venezuelans are still living in a hyper-violent, quasi-dictatorial, opressisive, socialist society." The Venezuelans I am friends with who live abroad here in Europe because their families fled that Chavez induced shithole have only reinforced my opinion.

An appointed leader can fuck-up a country pretty badly without making it oppressive or hyper-violent. I know Venezuelans who support Chávez, and ones who detest him. The ones who don't like him tend to accuse him more of turning the economy into shit than of making the nation into a regime of absolute power.

[Non Aligned States]

Youre just provoking, and when you get an answer, you say garbage.

Because all your answers are just that. Garbage. You claim things that are blatant lies (America was among the last nations to end slavery, later than even Russia) and when called on it, make more lies, all the while casting red herrings. You demonstrate ignorance not only of history, but modern politics, taking the belligerent drunks approach to problem solving. Whoever, whatever you are, you're a living failure of whichever education system you attended.

Truth is not something you should be claiming to speak, since you haven't uttered a word of it since coming here.

[Northern Cydonia]

Youre just provoking, and when you get an answer, you say garbage.

Because all your answers are just that. Garbage. You claim things that are blatant lies (America was among the last nations to end slavery, later than even Russia) and when called on it, make more lies, all the while casting red herrings. You demonstrate ignorance not only of history, but modern politics, taking the belligerent drunks approach to problem solving. Whoever, whatever you are, you're a living failure of whichever education system you attended.

Truth is not something you should be claiming to speak, since you haven't uttered a word of it since coming here.

The only point you actually made is about slavery in the US, which I do admit to. And then theres more personal insults, this time in the form of a claim I am not even a human being ("whatever you are"). What you call a "belligerent drunks approach" was the one adopted by individuals like gen. Douglas MacArthur, who also advocated threatening with nuclear arms. During his command, Americans were winning and they were respected. They've grown soft lately. Chavez is not a problem, he's a disease. And a disease needs a cure.

[Andaluciae]

NC--while I'm still convinced you're a parody poster, your mode of argument closely mimics that used within the Soviet sphere for the duration of the Cold War--ignoring rational, objective criteria (regardless of the field!) and blathering on about the glories of whatever. Let's not do this, let's not be godless commie bastards. Let's be Ah'merkahns and play with some debate, some give-and-take and acceptance of self-criticism. All good things.