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Words and Gender: Does Gender Differentiation Matter?

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Anachronous Rex
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
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Postby Anachronous Rex » Thu May 16, 2013 10:41 am

Tirespa wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Actor vs. Actress. Hero vs. Heroine. Steward vs. Stewardess. President vs. female President. Etc.

One of the nuances in the English language is this need to have different words to differentiate between genders doing what is essentially the same thing. For example, a male who acts is called an actor, a female who acts is an actress. A male who does heroic deeds is a hero, a female who does this is a heroine. And the list goes on and on.

My question is whether this is necessary at all. Do we need to have separate terms for male and females?

I personally do not think that we NEED separate words for males and females doing what is the same thing. To me, it's sexist, implying that a female cannot aspire to be an actor, a hero, etc, but instead must settle for a female version of it. Gender should not matter, and it doesn't matter. To me, suggesting that it makes a difference is part of patriarchy.

But what do you think?


I've just read a few pages and I see you are feminist. I mean like, the pure definition.
I'm not against any women, I'm actually for more rights. But here comes the problem: if you want complete equality - which some of the ultra-feminists (not saying you are one) want, you also have to think what the men don't do/do to women (at least in civilized countries):
- Don't punch or get into a brawl (if you want complete equality, you're also going to have to accept the fact that fights happen)
- Holding up the door (if you want complete equality, the door is going to get slammed into your face quite a few times more often)
- Don't insult (Apparently when a woman insults a man it's brave, but if a man insults a woman it's just wrong. That's not equality?)
- Don't scream at them (For men it's pretty normal to scream at each other if they're not the same opinion and they argue. We usually don't do this to women. You want equality? There 'ya go!)

I am by no means saying that men have less rights than women - in fact it's obviously the complete opposite! But changing up words and this complete equality thing is just shooting into your own soccer goal, or throwing a 3-pointer into your own basket.

Nothing someone says before the word "but" really counts.

You're clearly not familiar with Feminism. Else you would know that one of their principal justifications is that patriarchy also hurts men.
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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 am

Anachronous Rex wrote:
Tirespa wrote:
I've just read a few pages and I see you are feminist. I mean like, the pure definition.
I'm not against any women, I'm actually for more rights. But here comes the problem: if you want complete equality - which some of the ultra-feminists (not saying you are one) want, you also have to think what the men don't do/do to women (at least in civilized countries):
- Don't punch or get into a brawl (if you want complete equality, you're also going to have to accept the fact that fights happen)
- Holding up the door (if you want complete equality, the door is going to get slammed into your face quite a few times more often)
- Don't insult (Apparently when a woman insults a man it's brave, but if a man insults a woman it's just wrong. That's not equality?)
- Don't scream at them (For men it's pretty normal to scream at each other if they're not the same opinion and they argue. We usually don't do this to women. You want equality? There 'ya go!)

I am by no means saying that men have less rights than women - in fact it's obviously the complete opposite! But changing up words and this complete equality thing is just shooting into your own soccer goal, or throwing a 3-pointer into your own basket.

Nothing someone says before the word "but" really counts.


I'm not racist, but maybe slavery wasn't such a bad idea.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Nailed to the Perch
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Postby Nailed to the Perch » Thu May 16, 2013 10:43 am

Ifreann wrote:
Nailed to the Perch wrote:
But Iffy, I can only care about one thing at a time! Which is why, apparently, I should care about...whether, if I call 911, I will want to bang the cop that arrives?

I think you've got the wrong number for a stripper-gram.


"They're not real cops, Michael! Look how HOT they are!"

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 16, 2013 10:43 am

Neo Art wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Nothing someone says before the word "but" really counts.


I'm not racist, but maybe slavery wasn't such a bad idea.

I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

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Solsteim
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Postby Solsteim » Thu May 16, 2013 10:44 am

Aren't gender specific titles just to add description? After all there are male and female names, and no one would ever claim that those are sexist. Also you seem to be presuming quite a bit, whoever said female president?
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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:44 am

Ifreann wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
I'm not racist, but maybe slavery wasn't such a bad idea.

I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.


I'm not saying you're Irish, but you're clearly drunk and stupid.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Land of Tob
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Founded: Apr 12, 2013
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Postby Land of Tob » Thu May 16, 2013 10:44 am

Ifreann wrote:
Tirespa wrote:
I've just read a few pages and I see you are feminist. I mean like, the pure definition.
I'm not against any women, I'm actually for more rights. But here comes the problem: if you want complete equality - which some of the ultra-feminists (not saying you are one) want, you also have to think what the men don't do/do to women (at least in civilized countries):
- Don't punch or get into a brawl (if you want complete equality, you're also going to have to accept the fact that fights happen)
- Holding up the door (if you want complete equality, the door is going to get slammed into your face quite a few times more often)
- Don't insult (Apparently when a woman insults a man it's brave, but if a man insults a woman it's just wrong. That's not equality?)
- Don't scream at them (For men it's pretty normal to scream at each other if they're not the same opinion and they argue. We usually don't do this to women. You want equality? There 'ya go!)

I am by no means saying that men have less rights than women - in fact it's obviously the complete opposite! But changing up words and this complete equality thing is just shooting into your own soccer goal, or throwing a 3-pointer into your own basket.

Maybe I'm just fucking mental or something, but I would think that people generally shouldn't be punching, insulting or screaming at anyone, man or woman, and what kind of twat only holds the door open for half of people?


I myself experienced this quite often. I run to an elevator or let's say a door. A woman is in front of me like 3 meters and another guy is holding up the door for her. I myself run signalizing I would like to enter but the door gets closed in front of my face. This is just rude though and doesn't really have to do anything with women having more "rights". But there are quite a few, actually, many rude people around.

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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:45 am

Solsteim wrote:Aren't gender specific titles just to add description?


......yes. Very good. You figured that part out. The underlying question is of what relevance is the description?
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Land of Tob
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Postby Land of Tob » Thu May 16, 2013 10:45 am

Neo Art wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.


I'm not saying you're Irish, but you're clearly drunk and stupid.


I'm not saying you're being rude, but you're clearly insulting many people.
//no need to get defensive

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 16, 2013 10:45 am

Nailed to the Perch wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I think you've got the wrong number for a stripper-gram.


"They're not real cops, Michael! Look how HOT they are!"

#anytimeisagoodtimeforarresteddevelopmentreferences

Truer words were never strung together and prefixed with a hash symbol.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

Saoirse don Phalaistín

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 16, 2013 10:46 am

Neo Art wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.


I'm not saying you're Irish, but you're clearly drunk and stupid.

I may be drunk but...okay, fine, you win this round.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

Saoirse don Phalaistín

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Land of Tob
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Postby Land of Tob » Thu May 16, 2013 10:47 am

Neo Art wrote:
Solsteim wrote:Aren't gender specific titles just to add description?


......yes. Very good. You figured that part out. The underlying question is of what relevance is the description?


Maybe as in saying "He employed a new actress". Rather than saying "He employed a new actor" "Oh, really, is the actor male or female?" "She's female."
Saves two small sentences - EFFICIENCY these days is crazy!

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SaintB
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Postby SaintB » Thu May 16, 2013 10:47 am

I'm not sure how a difference in words hurts anything. All I see is a quick way to describe the person in question. As opposed to wanting to get rid of the words the effort would be better spent working on finding out and eliminating reasons why anyone would consider one less than the other.
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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:48 am

Land of Tob wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
I'm not saying you're Irish, but you're clearly drunk and stupid.


I'm not saying you're being rude, but you're clearly insulting many people.
//no need to get defensive


Who the hell are you again?
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Land of Tob
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Postby Land of Tob » Thu May 16, 2013 10:49 am

Neo Art wrote:
Land of Tob wrote:
I'm not saying you're being rude, but you're clearly insulting many people.
//no need to get defensive


Who the hell are you again?


I didn't know you have to have a specific amount of forum posts to be allowed an opinion?

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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Thu May 16, 2013 10:50 am

Keep the ones that exist, but don't start making new ones.

It feels too much like positive discrimination and only encourages the use of said neologisms in a very sarcastic tone.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 16, 2013 10:50 am

Land of Tob wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
......yes. Very good. You figured that part out. The underlying question is of what relevance is the description?


Maybe as in saying "He employed a new actress". Rather than saying "He employed a new actor" "Oh, really, is the actor male or female?" "She's female."
Saves two small sentences - EFFICIENCY these days is crazy!

Who would ask about the gender instead of the role?
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be

Saoirse don Phalaistín

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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:51 am

Land of Tob wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
......yes. Very good. You figured that part out. The underlying question is of what relevance is the description?


Maybe as in saying "He employed a new actress". Rather than saying "He employed a new actor" "Oh, really, is the actor male or female?" "She's female."
Saves two small sentences - EFFICIENCY these days is crazy!


He emplyd a new actr. O rly? m/f? m.

Less then half the characters. EFFICIENCY!

:roll:
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Nailed to the Perch
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Postby Nailed to the Perch » Thu May 16, 2013 10:51 am

Land of Tob wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Who the hell are you again?


I didn't know you have to have a specific amount of forum posts to be allowed an opinion?


No, but it does sometimes help to determine when longtime posters who already know each other are joking around versus actually being serious.
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Tyriece
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Postby Tyriece » Thu May 16, 2013 10:51 am

Actor actress, they are both the same. One is not the "female version" to me at lest. I see no reason not to label gender words.
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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:51 am

Nailed to the Perch wrote:
Land of Tob wrote:
I didn't know you have to have a specific amount of forum posts to be allowed an opinion?


No, but it does sometimes help to determine when longtime posters who already know each other are joking around versus actually being serious.


Noooooo, you're shitting me, person I've never seen before and definitely have not had sex with, therefor will assume you're a fat bald man who likes little boys.
Last edited by Neo Art on Thu May 16, 2013 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Land of Tob
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Postby Land of Tob » Thu May 16, 2013 10:52 am

Ifreann wrote:
Land of Tob wrote:
Maybe as in saying "He employed a new actress". Rather than saying "He employed a new actor" "Oh, really, is the actor male or female?" "She's female."
Saves two small sentences - EFFICIENCY these days is crazy!

Who would ask about the gender instead of the role?


If I would produce a movie called "12 Angry Men" I'd ask if he's a man. Because... that's like pretty important.
Being in a show where there are 15 men and 2 women and they need more women the first thing somebody would ask would also be which gender the person is, because it gets boring, otherwise.

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Solsteim
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Postby Solsteim » Thu May 16, 2013 10:52 am

One of my main problems with what you seem to be suggesting is that you are saying language can, and should, be tailored to correspond with a certain ideology, language should be free from artificial or intentional control. The masses will mold language into whatever is convenient for expressing themselves and what types of language they are comfortable using. Intentional control of language is perfectly capable of changing not only the way people speak, but the way they think and thus can be used to remove ideas from society. And while I'll agree with you that it's not 'necessary' there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and language will be whatever people make of it.
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My nation represents my own opinions where possible.
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Land of Tob
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Postby Land of Tob » Thu May 16, 2013 10:53 am

Neo Art wrote:
Land of Tob wrote:
Maybe as in saying "He employed a new actress". Rather than saying "He employed a new actor" "Oh, really, is the actor male or female?" "She's female."
Saves two small sentences - EFFICIENCY these days is crazy!


He emplyd a new actr. O rly? m/f? m.

Less then half the characters. EFFICIENCY!

:roll:


It was a small side joke, but obviously being the person you are (disrespectful to lesser known (or more like not known at all) people) you would say that!

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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Thu May 16, 2013 10:55 am

Land of Tob wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
He emplyd a new actr. O rly? m/f? m.

Less then half the characters. EFFICIENCY!

:roll:


It was a small side joke, but obviously being the person you are (disrespectful to lesser known (or more like not known at all) people) you would say that!


....yes. We're learning. Good.

Hint. Next time you want to tell a joke, try being funny.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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