Turkey vs. Israel in war: who would win?

[Ralkovia]

Anyone who thinks NATO would actually intervene on either side in this hypothetical conflict needs their head checked. Seriously.

If Israel launched an attack first NATO is required to intervene. There is no way around it. They could back out of the conflict but if that happens Turkey will turn on the West in order to gain support from other nations and as much as Arab nations dislike Turkey they hate Israel a whole lot more. So unless NATO is batshit crazy and wants an Islamist takeover of Turkey at the very least, not to mention insane amounts of bloodshed on both sides, then they would have to intervene to at least some extent.

Israel wouldn't be launching an attack in the first place. Unless you start with "Turkey suddenly threatened to start a 2nd holocaust" at which point NATO would back away.

[St Holy Mary]

What's to win in such war?

[Risottia]

I remember you that there are many ways a NATO country could support Turkey in that conflict. Military intervention isn't the only option, as per art.5 of the treaty.

So? Israel already gets military support from the US.

Well, considering that continuing that support in the event of an Israeli attack on Turkey would mean, basically, that the US have left NATO, I think they would rather keep out than having to face the amount of support the European NATO countries (plus, eventually, Canada) could pull off for Turkey.

Also, maintaining a supply corridor to Israel without Europe? Good luck with that. That would mean
a)passing through Egypt (ha!), or
b)passing through Saudi Arabia and Jordan (very likely that those kingdoms would help Israel... yup...), or
c)passing through Syria.

[Uelvan]

What's to win in such war?

Big balls contest.

[Risottia]

What's to win in such war?

Big balls contest.

Dick wa...

Damn ninja.

[Risottia]

If Israel launched an attack first NATO is required to intervene. There is no way around it. They could back out of the conflict but if that happens Turkey will turn on the West in order to gain support from other nations and as much as Arab nations dislike Turkey they hate Israel a whole lot more. So unless NATO is batshit crazy and wants an Islamist takeover of Turkey at the very least, not to mention insane amounts of bloodshed on both sides, then they would have to intervene to at least some extent.

Israel wouldn't be launching an attack in the first place. Unless you start with "Turkey suddenly threatened to start a 2nd holocaust" at which point NATO would back away.

Yup.

Neither would Turkey. Well, unless Israel suddenly threatened to start a genocide of Armenians, which would mean Turkey and Israel would be on the same side.

So, what do you prefer: Cod Wars or Falklands?

[Ralkovia]

So? Israel already gets military support from the US.

Well, considering that continuing that support in the event of an Israeli attack on Turkey would mean, basically, that the US have left NATO, I think they would rather keep out than having to face the amount of support the European NATO countries (plus, eventually, Canada) could pull off for Turkey.

Also, maintaining a supply corridor to Israel without Europe? Good luck with that. That would mean
a)passing through Egypt (ha!), or
b)passing through Saudi Arabia and Jordan (very likely that those kingdoms would help Israel... yup...), or
c)passing through Syria.

No one would possibly win this. If Israel faced an existential destruction under the Turks, it would hesitate to launch nuclear weapons to stop it. Hence, America would likely be involved, pressuring both sides to stop.

[Vitaphone Racing]

So? Israel already gets military support from the US.

Well, considering that continuing that support in the event of an Israeli attack on Turkey would mean, basically, that the US have left NATO, I think they would rather keep out than having to face the amount of support the European NATO countries (plus, eventually, Canada) could pull off for Turkey.

Also, maintaining a supply corridor to Israel without Europe? Good luck with that. That would mean
a)passing through Egypt (ha!), or
b)passing through Saudi Arabia and Jordan (very likely that those kingdoms would help Israel... yup...), or
c)passing through Syria.

Remember how Israel borders the Mediterranean sea?

[Ralkovia]

Well, considering that continuing that support in the event of an Israeli attack on Turkey would mean, basically, that the US have left NATO, I think they would rather keep out than having to face the amount of support the European NATO countries (plus, eventually, Canada) could pull off for Turkey.

Also, maintaining a supply corridor to Israel without Europe? Good luck with that. That would mean
a)passing through Egypt (ha!), or
b)passing through Saudi Arabia and Jordan (very likely that those kingdoms would help Israel... yup...), or
c)passing through Syria.

Remember how Israel borders the Mediterranean sea?

Well...remember how Israel has air fields? Air would offer much faster delivery of weapons.

[Risottia]

Remember how Israel borders the Mediterranean sea?

Remember how the access to that sea requires to pass either:
a) through Gibraltar (NATO control on it: Spain + UK) and then through the Strait of Sicily (NATO control on it: Italy... and Tunisia on the other side), or
b) through Suez (Egyptian control), or
c) through the Turkish straits?

Not really a fat chance the US would be able to resupply Israel via the Mediterranean if the NATO says no.
Try the Red Sea instead... and hope Egypt and Saudi Arabia have nothing to object.

[The Republique Dardania and Gazmania]

Turkey vs. Israel in war: who would win?

Why am I thinking of whirling dervishes being attacked by Rabbi’s with whitefish as blunt instruments?

It must be Tuesday.

[Jassysworth 1]

Now that I think about it... the rest of the Middle East would probably seize this opportunity and join Turkey in wiping out Israel...

The Jews have too many enemies in the region...

[Costa Alegria]

Now that I think about it... the rest of the Middle East would probably seize this opportunity and join Turkey in wiping out Israel...

The Jews have too many enemies in the region...

I doubt it. Let's take countries that don't particularly like Israel and look at them closely. Egypt? Can't really do much because the military knows it'd loose too much money from the US government which is pretty much the only thing actually maintaining a government there. Apply the same to Iraq, Saudi Arabia (who are too busy finding new and more exciting ways to piss of the Iranians), Qatar (who is actually on speaking terms with Israel and actually wants closer trade relations), Bahrain, Kuwait and Iraq. Lebanon can't do anything because it's military is tiny and is more focused on preventing another civil war than national defence. Syria can't because it's already in a civil war and Israel would likely wipe much of it's army and air force in days, hours even. Jordan won't because it doesn't want to be seen breaking treaties which it signed (and who would) and the UAE, Oman and Yemen are either too busy with their own Islamic militants or being rich to bother about those pesky Jews.

[Ralkovia]

Now that I think about it... the rest of the Middle East would probably seize this opportunity and join Turkey in wiping out Israel...

The Jews have too many enemies in the region...

I doubt it. Let's take countries that don't particularly like Israel and look at them closely. Egypt? Can't really do much because the military knows it'd loose too much money from the US government which is pretty much the only thing actually maintaining a government there. Apply the same to Iraq, Saudi Arabia (who are too busy finding new and more exciting ways to piss of the Iranians), Qatar (who is actually on speaking terms with Israel and actually wants closer trade relations), Bahrain, Kuwait and Iraq. Lebanon can't do anything because it's military is tiny and is more focused on preventing another civil war than national defence. Syria can't because it's already in a civil war and Israel would likely wipe much of it's army and air force in days, hours even. Jordan won't because it doesn't want to be seen breaking treaties which it signed (and who would) and the UAE, Oman and Yemen are either too busy with their own Islamic militants or being rich to bother about those pesky Jews.

Of course, the fact that the best case scenario has them all chewing on radiation for the next few decades alongside the ashes of Israel means that they have no incentive to join either.

When your neighbor promises you that even if you win, you'll still lose, it's a powerful incentive not to go war.

[Consortium of Manchukuo]

I am assuming no aid from other nations, which is unlikely, but given how hard that is to factor in... Also no usage of nuclear weapons.

Personally I believe Turkey would be able to win, or at least inflict a good degree of damage. Turkey's navy is more powerful for one, or at least it appears so (It's definitely larger, but some of their ships are rather old, Submarines are mostly from the 70s), so that could seal off Israel from the outside world. Army wise Turkey has far more people, and it's army is pretty capable apparently, although unless if there is major fighting in Syria there isn't going to be much chance for either to utilize their land forces. Of course, Israel appears to have a rather decisive advantage concerning air units, which are more numerous, have more experience, and have higher quality units overall (Many of Turkey's planes are still F-4s). So Turkey is not going to be able to effectively engage in an offensive air campaign, and is going to be on the defensive concerning air units- their home air defense might level the playing field somewhat, but frankly I don't know enough about it to tell. So my guess here is that Turkey's more powerful navy, greater absolute resources, higher population, and stronger army (If it gets a chance to utilize it) will enable it to secure victory over Israel's superior air force and individual superiority in troops and GDP per capita.

However, if Israel decides to utilize it's nuclear weapons then obviously that would cause massive damage, although I doubt the rest of the world would look kindly upon them. Aid is a significant concern as well, if one side gets larger amounts of foreign aid then obviously there are going to be advantages for them.

[Kemalist]

Why the hell Israel and Turkey would go into a war in the first place?

Turkey will never attempt to invade Israel. If Israel attempts to do so; NATO will have to side with Turkey due to the treaty and I don't see Israel having a chance in that case, not to mention that Turkey could even go head-to-head with Israel in 1 vs. 1.

[Diopolis]

The Assad regime.

[Ensiferum]

If Israel launched an attack first NATO is required to intervene. There is no way around it. They could back out of the conflict but if that happens Turkey will turn on the West in order to gain support from other nations and as much as Arab nations dislike Turkey they hate Israel a whole lot more. So unless NATO is batshit crazy and wants an Islamist takeover of Turkey at the very least, not to mention insane amounts of bloodshed on both sides, then they would have to intervene to at least some extent.

Israel wouldn't be launching an attack in the first place. Unless you start with "Turkey suddenly threatened to start a 2nd holocaust" at which point NATO would back away.

I don't know about that. Israel has been more hawkish than usual with bombing targets within Syria. If they'll do it to their neighbors what makes you think they won't target similar objectives in Turkey? It's doubtful but if Israel launched an attack on an FSA outpost within Turkey because they suspected they had some sort of weapon Turkey could count it as a first strike if Israel pulls the shit they've been doing with Syria. Turkey isn't going to let it's airspace be wantonly violated like Syria because Turkey kind of actually has a government and functional military. I'd say the odds of this war happening by Turkey launching a first strike are not very high, same with Israel but they've got slightly more chance to start the war as they are hawks, or vultures if you look at Syria.

[Ensiferum]

If Israel launched an attack first NATO is required to intervene. There is no way around it. They could back out of the conflict but if that happens Turkey will turn on the West in order to gain support from other nations and as much as Arab nations dislike Turkey they hate Israel a whole lot more. So unless NATO is batshit crazy and wants an Islamist takeover of Turkey at the very least, not to mention insane amounts of bloodshed on both sides, then they would have to intervene to at least some extent.

See this is why I hate these scenarios because they are just that improbable.

Any conflict involving Israel and Turkey that's half-likely would not require NATO to intervene, and they wouldn't because the US would most likely examine every possible loophole to prevent intervention because Israel and Turkey at war is possibly the worst thing that could happen to the US in the middle east. Hell, let's just try and stick to reality.

The Arab league is even less likely to intervene because it has absolutely nothing to gain.

The U.S. =/= NATO. France and the U.K. are the leaders of NATO as of late if you haven't noticed. So the U.S. doesn't intervene, what makes you think a few of the other nations wouldn't? Same with the Arab League, not all of them will intervene but if you think all of them would stay out of it when they have a perfectly good reason to strike at Israel then you are dreaming. The war itself is improbable, but the outcomes are pretty probable.

[Jehuddah]

Israel would. Our military is famous for it's power.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Nobody.

[Naynde]

I would want turkey to win, because they have a city named "batman"

This.

[Nomelan]

Power projection? Turkey is like... right next to Israel.

Turkey has a much much bigger army, air force, and navy...

No number of nukes is going to prevent Turkey from winning and taking Jerusalem. And Turkey can get nukes from the rest of NATO or from Russia if things get desperate...

, Israel has never been an aggressor, so likely Turkey would have been the aggressor, a

[Nomelan]

Depends. What's the context of the war?

Context:

The SAA wins in the Syria's civil war, leading to al-qaeda becoming a dominating military power within the nation. Al-qaeda attacks Israel, whom responds with an US-backed invasion of Syria. Turkey mobilizes forces along their border with Syria. A few weeks into the conflict and the syrian forces are pushed towards the Turkey border, and between the Turkish military and the Coalition military it looks like al-qaeda is done for in syria.

So, here is the actual context: turkey decides it wants to make a land grab, and sends it's military forces across the border without notifying anybody else. A small company of 100 Israeli soldiers encounters a turkish company of the same size. The Israeli forces open fire first, thinking the turkish company is al-qaeda. The Turkish forces defend themselves.

The fight is between 2 infantry companies. Light armor(i.e. jeeps) only. Which company would survive if they fought to the last man?

have you ever heard of alien space bats?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Remember how Israel borders the Mediterranean sea?

Remember how the access to that sea requires to pass either:
a) through Gibraltar (NATO control on it: Spain + UK) and then through the Strait of Sicily (NATO control on it: Italy... and Tunisia on the other side), or
b) through Suez (Egyptian control), or
c) through the Turkish straits?

Not really a fat chance the US would be able to resupply Israel via the Mediterranean if the NATO says no.
Try the Red Sea instead... and hope Egypt and Saudi Arabia have nothing to object.

You see, I can't imagine the UK and Spain (NATO members) preventing access to American ships (who they are much more closely allied to) to protect Turkey from some clusterfuck war that would take a cold day in hell to become a hot conflict.