The Mod-Sanctioned Israel/Palestine thread

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

now i'm no professional here would theodor have been ok with a jewish homeland in, say, madagascar

Theodore Herzl at one point proposed that the Jews of Austria should mass convert to Catholism as a way to end Anti-Semitism. He then proposed the Jewish Homeland of Uganda. Then came Zionism.

[DogDoo 7]

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel. Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority in their own nation, and to be liberated from antisemitic discrimination, exclusion, and persecution that had historically occurred in the diaspora

Even if this is the definition you'd like too use that still means that no non-Jew hater could be against Zionism.

Are you familiar with formal logic? AND means that BOTH things have to be true for the statement to be true. If I am in favor of upholding Jewish identity and against maintaining a Jewish majority here, then I am not a "Jew-hater" and I am not a Zionist.

Go back to your modern orthodox bubble that strangely fails to teach you anything about Judaism.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Even if this is the definition you'd like too use that still means that no non-Jew hater could be against Zionism.

Are you familiar with formal logic? AND means that BOTH things have to be true for the statement to be true. If I am in favor of upholding Jewish identity and against maintaining a Jewish majority here, then I am not a "Jew-hater" and I am not a Zionist.

And how do propose the Jews become a minority then? What if there's one more Jew then Arab? OH NO THE JEWS ARE THE MAJORITY IN ONE COUNTRY OH NO.

[DogDoo 7]

Are you familiar with formal logic? AND means that BOTH things have to be true for the statement to be true. If I am in favor of upholding Jewish identity and against maintaining a Jewish majority here, then I am not a "Jew-hater" and I am not a Zionist.

And how do propose the Jews become a minority then? What if there's one more Jew then Arab? OH NO THE JEWS ARE THE MAJORITY IN ONE COUNTRY OH NO.

"maintaining" not "being," If there managed to be a Jewish majority in an egalitarian single state I would have absolutely no problem. Try harder next time, you're boring me.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

And how do propose the Jews become a minority then? What if there's one more Jew then Arab? OH NO THE JEWS ARE THE MAJORITY IN ONE COUNTRY OH NO.

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority. Many people have all sorts of issues with the methods you'd need to use to ensure you stay a majority.

[Souseiseki]

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel. Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority in their own nation, and to be liberated from antisemitic discrimination, exclusion, and persecution that had historically occurred in the diaspora

Even if this is the definition you'd like too use that still means that no non-Jew hater could be against Zionism.

how?

can i put you down as a black panther supporter then?

e: or pink panther. did you know there is no country where we are the majority?!

[DogDoo 7]

And how do propose the Jews become a minority then? What if there's one more Jew then Arab? OH NO THE JEWS ARE THE MAJORITY IN ONE COUNTRY OH NO.

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority. Many people have all sorts of issues with the methods you'd need to use to ensure you stay a majority.

Some methods. I'm ok with giving Jews free stuff to move here but that's pretty much it. But it's time for Israel to decide between one state or two JUST states (i.e. some sort of sharing of Jerusalem, Ariel, Hebron, Atarot Airport, and the Jordan Valley are under Palestinian control, and some sort of territory swap for Modi'in Illit. Maybe there can be a Jewish waqf to manage the Jewish holy sites in the West Bank and to ensure that Jews have freedom of prayer there. But it will be messy.

[Yorkopolis]

And how do propose the Jews become a minority then? What if there's one more Jew then Arab? OH NO THE JEWS ARE THE MAJORITY IN ONE COUNTRY OH NO.

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority. Many people have all sorts of issues with the methods you'd need to use to ensure you stay a majority.

Their methods scream Apartheid. Sadly, you're arguing against a stone wall. PLO won't give up his arguments. I don't want to genocide the Jews, I've never wanted to, and I never will, and I've never denied the Holocaust either. I am, however, opposed to the existence of Israel because of the following:

A. The settlements
B. The ultra-orthodox
C. Ashkenazi supremacists like Jehuddah/Yehuddah (same person I presume)
D. Its treatment of the Palestinians
E. "Jewish" state - theocracy and racist

I can name a few more but hey, I think I've made myself clear enough.

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

And how do propose the Jews become a minority then? What if there's one more Jew then Arab? OH NO THE JEWS ARE THE MAJORITY IN ONE COUNTRY OH NO.

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority.

All Anti-Zionists do. That's the whole point of Anti-Zionism, that there would never be a time when Jews can defend themselves.

[Souseiseki]

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority.

All Anti-Zionists do. That's the whole point of Anti-Zionism, that there would never be a time when Jews can defend themselves.

no. no it is not. did you actually read his post, like, at all?

[Nicer potlimitomaha]

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority. Many people have all sorts of issues with the methods you'd need to use to ensure you stay a majority.

Their methods scream Apartheid. Sadly, you're arguing against a stone wall. PLO won't give up his arguments. I don't want to genocide the Jews, I've never wanted to, and I never will, and I've never denied the Holocaust either. I am, however, opposed to the existence of Israel because of the following:

A. The settlements
B. The ultra-orthodox
C. Ashkenazi supremacists like Jehuddah/Yehuddah (same person I presume)
D. Its treatment of the Palestinians
E. "Jewish" state - theocracy and racist

I can name a few more but hey, I think I've made myself clear enough.

But none of that has to do with Zionism. Criticizing Israeli policy doesn't even come remotely half-related to Anti-Zionism.The existence of Israel though came about because of you know what and i for one don't want a repeat. But to address your 5 points
A. Criticize away. Bioth Meretz and Jewish Home are legitamite opinions on the settlements.
B. Again I don't want a repeat of pre-Israel 1940's and in keeping with that, the ultra-orthodox are going to exist. Israel should be controling the extremeists though.
C. What does that have to do with Israel?
D. Specific examples please
E. Israel is far from a theocrasy and to say calling something what it is is racist is just ridiculous. Th sky is blue THAT'S RACIST.

[Souseiseki]

Their methods scream Apartheid. Sadly, you're arguing against a stone wall. PLO won't give up his arguments. I don't want to genocide the Jews, I've never wanted to, and I never will, and I've never denied the Holocaust either. I am, however, opposed to the existence of Israel because of the following:

A. The settlements
B. The ultra-orthodox
C. Ashkenazi supremacists like Jehuddah/Yehuddah (same person I presume)
D. Its treatment of the Palestinians
E. "Jewish" state - theocracy and racist

I can name a few more but hey, I think I've made myself clear enough.

But none of that has to do with Zionism. Criticizing Israeli policy doesn't even come remotely half-related to Anti-Zionism.The existence of Israel though came about because of you know what and i for one don't want a repeat. But to address your 5 points
A. Criticize away. Bioth Meretz and Jewish Home are legitamite opinions on the settlements.
B. Again I don't want a repeat of pre-Israel 1940's and in keeping with that, the ultra-orthodox are going to exist. Israel should be controling the extremeists though.
C. What does that have to do with Israel?
D. Specific examples please
E. Israel is far from a theocrasy and to say calling something what it is is racist is just ridiculous. Th sky is blue THAT'S RACIST.

your state is based on maintaining specific racial quotas, but you're not racist. this is the sum of the pro-israel argument against racism and it is as always to my utter asdfghjkl; that israel gets away with this incredibly obviously flawed logic by virtue of being israel.

do you seriously just not get that policies based on race are inherently racist because that is what the word means

[Souseiseki]

E. Israel is far from a theocrasy and to say calling something what it is is racist is just ridiculous. Th sky is blue THAT'S RACIST.

describe israels goals without reference to race, religion or ethnicity (please do not ignore this post)

[Rainbows and Rivers]

Nobody has a problem with it if you just happen to be a majority.

All Anti-Zionists do. That's the whole point of Anti-Zionism, that there would never be a time when Jews can defend themselves.

I notice you decided to cut off the half of my post you didn't lie. So let me restate it:

I and those like me have no problem with Jews. We have no problem with Jews being the majority in one state or in all the states. But Zionism is inherently based on making sure there is a Jewish majority. And pretty much any method you could use to make sure of that is rooted in discrimination and unequal treatment.

[Jehuddah]

E. Israel is far from a theocrasy and to say calling something what it is is racist is just ridiculous. Th sky is blue THAT'S RACIST.

describe israels goals without reference to race, religion or ethnicity (please do not ignore this post)

DA SKAY IZ BLU SO ITS RASIST EGENST DA RED CULUR!!!!111!!11!1!1!!!

[Souseiseki]

describe israels goals without reference to race, religion or ethnicity (please do not ignore this post)

DA SKAY IZ BLU SO ITS RASIST EGENST DA RED CULUR!!!!111!!11!1!1!!!

go on, do it. it's not a priority because you fully admit it but you're free to try too.

[The Godly Nations]

E. Israel is far from a theocrasy and to say calling something what it is is racist is just ridiculous. Th sky is blue THAT'S RACIST.

describe israels goals without reference to race, religion or ethnicity (please do not ignore this post)

Israel seeks to protect the peace of its citizens against the threat posed by certain extremist organisations, which uses terror tactics to achieve its goals. To this end, Israel has decided to adopt a policy of bombing and shelling area where members of those organisations may be located, which may also discourage other people who live in that area from joining those organisations.

[Souseiseki]

describe israels goals without reference to race, religion or ethnicity (please do not ignore this post)

Israel seeks to protect the peace of its citizens against the threat posed by certain extremist organisations, which uses terror tactics to achieve its goals. To this end, Israel has decided to adopt a policy of bombing and shelling area where members of those organisations may be located.

and why does israel exist in the first place? what is the purpose of its existence?

that was a nice try though

[The Godly Nations]

Israel seeks to protect the peace of its citizens against the threat posed by certain extremist organisations, which uses terror tactics to achieve its goals. To this end, Israel has decided to adopt a policy of bombing and shelling area where members of those organisations may be located.

and why does israel exist in the first place? what is the purpose of its existence?

The state of Israel is a nation which was founded in 1948 when members of a certain organisation declared their nation's independence from Britain. After this, the Israeli state continues to exist so as to govern and protect its citizenry, especially against the aforementioned threats.

[Souseiseki]

and why does israel exist in the first place? what is the purpose of its existence?

The state of Israel is a nation which was founded in 1948 when members of a certain organisation declared that their nation is independent from Britain. After this, the Israeli state continues to exist so as to govern its citizen and continuing to secure them.

why was it founded? which organizations were these?

[The Godly Nations]

The state of Israel is a nation which was founded in 1948 when members of a certain organisation declared that their nation is independent from Britain. After this, the Israeli state continues to exist so as to govern its citizen and continuing to secure them.

why was it founded?

you can only dance around it for so long

Thus members and representatives of the people of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
-Declaration of Independence (Israel)

[Souseiseki]

why was it founded?

you can only dance around it for so long

Thus members and representatives of the people of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

the zionist movement? oh?

"Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel."

are you sure that is the entire quote?

"On 14 May 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,"

"The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine, which brought the British mandate to an end in 1948, referred to a "Jewish state" and an "Arab state."

"The Israeli government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has sought Palestinian recognition of Israel as a "Jewish state"."

hmm, there's a lot of talk this about "jewish state". even today israel demands recognition as "jewish state". indeed based on how israel was created it seems it was created as a "jewish state" by people who specifically sought to create a "jewish state". tell me more about this "jewish state" and how you think israel intends to remain a "jewish state". it's almost like...

[The Godly Nations]

Thus members and representatives of the people of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

the zionist movement? oh?

"Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in the territory defined as the Land of Israel."

are you sure that is the entire quote?

"On 14 May 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared "the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,"

"The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine, which brought the British mandate to an end in 1948, referred to a "Jewish state" and an "Arab state."

"The Israeli government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has sought Palestinian recognition of Israel as a "Jewish state"."

hmm, there's a lot of talk this about "jewish state". even today israel demands recognition as "jewish state". indeed based on how israel was created it seems it was created as a "jewish state" by people who specifically sought to create a "jewish state". tell me more about this "jewish state" and how you think israel intends to remain a "jewish state". it's almost like...

I would prefer it if you would stop emphasizing the word 'Jewish', I thought we agreed to speak about this problem without reference to Ethnic, Religious, or Racial groups.

[Rainbows and Rivers]

describe israels goals without reference to race, religion or ethnicity (please do not ignore this post)

DA SKAY IZ BLU SO ITS RASIST EGENST DA RED CULUR!!!!111!!11!1!1!!!

Hi there.

I get that you think you're onto something interesting with this typing style you've adapted, but I'd appreciate it if you toned it down a notch. What you're doing is at best an Appeal to Ridicule performed via unnecessary amounts of uppercase and misspellings and at worst an attempt to anger us by using tactics that bore kindergartners. It doesn't advance the discussion, it doesn't serve to make a point, and while I want to say it hurts my eyes the truth is I read much worse typing styles for fun.

Thank you in advance.

[Souseiseki]

why was it founded?

you can only dance around it for so long

Thus members and representatives of the people of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
-Declaration of Independence (Israel)

"The Israeli Declaration of Independence, was made on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708), the day before the British Mandate was due to expire. David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and the chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel."

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Israeli_D ... dependence

"HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL."

indeed, there it is, straight from the text itself.

actually

your post:
"Thus members and representatives of the people of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL."

the actual text:
"Thus members and representatives of the Jews of Palestine and of the Zionist movement are here assembled on the day is the termination of the British Mandate over Eretz-Yisra'el and, by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-YISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL."

you seem to have gone to the trouble of getting the entire quote. yet, for some reason, the jewish state part is absent. i can only hope that you did not deliberately remove it.