Male privilege and going shirtless

[Farnhamia]

All I know is that it gets damn hot down here and I will not let some sore lady keep me from taking off my shirt while I roam around. And besides, I wouldn't protest if certain women take of their shirts.

Here Here!

I believe it's "Hear! Hear!"

Uh huh. I've seen Buffy's picture and he's pretty enough to get away with it.

Look, the inequity lies in the fact that I would be charged with indecent exposure if I took my shirt off in public but neither Buffy nor Maurepas would. It seems like a small thing but it's just another tile in the mosaic of treating women differently than men and not thinking there's something inherently wrong with that.

And I expected better than this from both of you, frankly.

I thought we were both saying that inequality should be lifted,

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but the "I wouldn't protest if certain women take off their shirts" rankled. I would expect it from Parth.

[Buffett and Colbert]

All I know is that it gets damn hot down here and I will not let some sore lady keep me from taking off my shirt while I roam around. And besides, I wouldn't protest if certain women take of their shirts.

Here Here!

I believe it's "Hear! Hear!"

Uh huh. I've seen Buffy's picture and he's pretty enough to get away with it.

Look, the inequity lies in the fact that I would be charged with indecent exposure if I took my shirt off in public but neither Buffy nor Maurepas would. It seems like a small thing but it's just another tile in the mosaic of treating women differently than men and not thinking there's something inherently wrong with that.

And I expected better than this from both of you, frankly.

I thought we were both saying that inequality should be lifted,

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but the "I wouldn't protest if certain women take off their shirts" rankled. I would expect it from Parth.

Yeesh, then rag on me for that not Maurepas. But it was a joke, you know.

[Flammable Ice]

Lol I dunno, feminists fighting for the right to expose their breasts is kind of like slaves rallying for longer hours, isn't it?

Only since feminism was redefined from "women's rights" to "prudism and jealously of better looking women"

[Maurepas]

All I know is that it gets damn hot down here and I will not let some sore lady keep me from taking off my shirt while I roam around. And besides, I wouldn't protest if certain women take of their shirts.

Here Here!

I believe it's "Hear! Hear!"

Uh huh. I've seen Buffy's picture and he's pretty enough to get away with it.

Look, the inequity lies in the fact that I would be charged with indecent exposure if I took my shirt off in public but neither Buffy nor Maurepas would. It seems like a small thing but it's just another tile in the mosaic of treating women differently than men and not thinking there's something inherently wrong with that.

And I expected better than this from both of you, frankly.

I thought we were both saying that inequality should be lifted,

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but the "I wouldn't protest if certain women take off their shirts" rankled. I would expect it from Parth.

Really? I would expect some conservative argument for covering women up, tbqh,

[Sarkhaan]

This "machismo" behavior is little more than anti-social vanity;.

Wait...what? How is wanting everyone to look at your macho body, or feeling comfortable while you work in a hot environment, or whatever 'anti-social'? Wouldn't an anti-social person be more inclined to cover up as much as possible to avoid people looking at him?

I has confuse.

Anti-social simply means socially destructive (i.e. kleptomaniacs).

As for hot work environments, I raised that question and think this rule should NOT apply to such. I think Women and Men should be segregated in a construction environment (not like that is an ideal job proscription for a feminine creature).

Why would the need to be segregated, what purpose would it serve? Why cant they work shirtless together?

Does the word "unprofessional work environment" mean anything?

Not particularly...what is and is not professional is defined arbitrarily, and changes regularly.

[Heinleinites]

There are so many more things in life to wage war against: Racism, equality, justice....

You're going to wage war against equality and justice? It's not often you see someone who is against racism and equality. What does that really leave you with?

[Maurepas]

This "machismo" behavior is little more than anti-social vanity;.

Wait...what? How is wanting everyone to look at your macho body, or feeling comfortable while you work in a hot environment, or whatever 'anti-social'? Wouldn't an anti-social person be more inclined to cover up as much as possible to avoid people looking at him?

I has confuse.

Anti-social simply means socially destructive (i.e. kleptomaniacs).

As for hot work environments, I raised that question and think this rule should NOT apply to such. I think Women and Men should be segregated in a construction environment (not like that is an ideal job proscription for a feminine creature).

Why would the need to be segregated, what purpose would it serve? Why cant they work shirtless together?

Does the word "unprofessional work environment" mean anything?

Not particularly...what is and is not professional is defined arbitrarily, and changes regularly.

Yeah, for example, Im wearing a T-Shirt, Jeans, skate-shoes, and a Chain...At work,

[Takaram]

:eyebrow: I don't know much about that.
But all men who have a six pack
and defined pecs should be forced
to go shirtless just to make at least
half the population a bit happier in
our depressing westernised lives.

You know... I have no problem with this.

[Sarkhaan]

I hope people of both sexes continue to cover up their secondary sex characteristics in public.

Men should cover their broad shoulders and their facial and chest hair? What should they do about their lowered voices?

My Adam's apple is going to be kind of hard to cover up too...I mean, the hair can be shaved off, and I suppose I could stop going to the gym and at least reduce my shoulder:hip ratio, and can try to speak in a falsetto as much as possible...but the Adam's apple seems to be there to stay.

[Maurepas]

I hope people of both sexes continue to cover up their secondary sex characteristics in public.

Men should cover their broad shoulders and their facial and chest hair? What should they do about their lowered voices?

My Adam's apple is going to be kind of hard to cover up too...I mean, the hair can be shaved off, and I suppose I could stop going to the gym and at least reduce my shoulder:hip ratio, and can try to speak in a falsetto as much as possible...but the Adam's apple seems to be there to stay.

They have surgery for that actually.....

[L3 Communications]

Sounds like BS. Where I come from, its perfectly legal for a women to go shirtless, yet none do. It has far more to do with attitudes (mostly among women) as to why they don't go topless.

Personally, I will sure as hell go without a shirt if I'm hot. Fuck off and die lady, oh wait, you already did.

OHHHH SNAP!

[Sarkhaan]

This "machismo" behavior is little more than anti-social vanity;.

Wait...what? How is wanting everyone to look at your macho body, or feeling comfortable while you work in a hot environment, or whatever 'anti-social'? Wouldn't an anti-social person be more inclined to cover up as much as possible to avoid people looking at him?

I has confuse.

Anti-social simply means socially destructive (i.e. kleptomaniacs).

As for hot work environments, I raised that question and think this rule should NOT apply to such. I think Women and Men should be segregated in a construction environment (not like that is an ideal job proscription for a feminine creature).

Why would the need to be segregated, what purpose would it serve? Why cant they work shirtless together?

Does the word "unprofessional work environment" mean anything?

Not particularly...what is and is not professional is defined arbitrarily, and changes regularly.

Yeah, for example, Im wearing a T-Shirt, Jeans, skate-shoes, and a Chain...At work,

I'm required to wear a specific t-shirt, khakis, and sneakers at work, personally.
Teaching, it varies from "Hey, it's chill man...jeans and a hoodie are fine" to "You will wear slacks, polished shoes, a collared shirt, and a tie at the very least. A jacket is preferable, and a suit would by no means be inappropriate".

[Sarkhaan]

I hope people of both sexes continue to cover up their secondary sex characteristics in public.

Men should cover their broad shoulders and their facial and chest hair? What should they do about their lowered voices?

My Adam's apple is going to be kind of hard to cover up too...I mean, the hair can be shaved off, and I suppose I could stop going to the gym and at least reduce my shoulder:hip ratio, and can try to speak in a falsetto as much as possible...but the Adam's apple seems to be there to stay.

They have surgery for that actually.....

...seriously. Doctors need to stop randomly hacking away at body parts with a scalpel.

Wouldn't that leave one mute?


Ohh...another one...men's pointer fingers are shorter than their ring fingers, whereas women's are equal.

[Takaram]

I hope people of both sexes continue to cover up their secondary sex characteristics in public.

Men should cover their broad shoulders and their facial and chest hair? What should they do about their lowered voices?

My Adam's apple is going to be kind of hard to cover up too...I mean, the hair can be shaved off, and I suppose I could stop going to the gym and at least reduce my shoulder:hip ratio, and can try to speak in a falsetto as much as possible...but the Adam's apple seems to be there to stay.

They have surgery for that actually.....

...seriously. Doctors need to stop randomly hacking away at body parts with a scalpel.

Wouldn't that leave one mute?


Ohh...another one...men's pointer fingers are shorter than their ring fingers, whereas women's are equal.

*Grabs hatchet*
Alright, hold out your hand, this will only take a second.

[Blouman Empire]

Bonnie Tinker, a life long activist who strive to be a catalyst for equality and positive change wrote an article (her last before, at age 61 being hit by a truck while riding her bicycle)

Her article was on the topic of male privilege and how males not wearing shirts when in public is symbolic of domination and an exercise of illegitimate privilege over females who would expose themselves to danger should they also not wear shirts.

She advises that men abstain from the act of going "naked" (by which she means shirtless.) in this article called "Please keep your male privilege private" http://theportlandalliance.org/2009/Jun ... ithin.html

While I agree with her premise, I disagree with her conclusions that feminist males should feel obligated to keep their shirts on in public. If such an act of solidarity would challenge patriarchy I would agree with it but I don't see how men wearing shirts in the summer challenges patriarchy or oppression, domination, or hierarchy. There must be more effective ways of crushing patriarchy than simply keeping ones clothes on.

What do you all think?

Just some typical bullshit.

[Maurepas]

This "machismo" behavior is little more than anti-social vanity;.

Wait...what? How is wanting everyone to look at your macho body, or feeling comfortable while you work in a hot environment, or whatever 'anti-social'? Wouldn't an anti-social person be more inclined to cover up as much as possible to avoid people looking at him?

I has confuse.

Anti-social simply means socially destructive (i.e. kleptomaniacs).

As for hot work environments, I raised that question and think this rule should NOT apply to such. I think Women and Men should be segregated in a construction environment (not like that is an ideal job proscription for a feminine creature).

Why would the need to be segregated, what purpose would it serve? Why cant they work shirtless together?

Does the word "unprofessional work environment" mean anything?

Not particularly...what is and is not professional is defined arbitrarily, and changes regularly.

Yeah, for example, Im wearing a T-Shirt, Jeans, skate-shoes, and a Chain...At work,

I'm required to wear a specific t-shirt, khakis, and sneakers at work, personally.
Teaching, it varies from "Hey, it's chill man...jeans and a hoodie are fine" to "You will wear slacks, polished shoes, a collared shirt, and a tie at the very least. A jacket is preferable, and a suit would by no means be inappropriate".

Noone actually sees me work that doesnt also work here, so, there is no requirements as to what one is supposed to wear, beyond whats legal,

And, noone tells the drivers what to wear...

Before she got laid off(not for clothing) I had a Dispatcher who always came in pajamas and slippers...

[Maurepas]

I hope people of both sexes continue to cover up their secondary sex characteristics in public.

Men should cover their broad shoulders and their facial and chest hair? What should they do about their lowered voices?

My Adam's apple is going to be kind of hard to cover up too...I mean, the hair can be shaved off, and I suppose I could stop going to the gym and at least reduce my shoulder:hip ratio, and can try to speak in a falsetto as much as possible...but the Adam's apple seems to be there to stay.

They have surgery for that actually.....

...seriously. Doctors need to stop randomly hacking away at body parts with a scalpel.

Wouldn't that leave one mute?


Ohh...another one...men's pointer fingers are shorter than their ring fingers, whereas women's are equal.

Not that I know of, I know its a common part of Transgender surgery...

[The Congregationists]

Lol I dunno, feminists fighting for the right to expose their breasts is kind of like slaves rallying for longer hours, isn't it?

Only since feminism was redefined from "women's rights" to "prudism and jealously of better looking women"

The problem, Flammable Ice, is that redefinition of feminism happened in or around 1968. It's been all about screaming "objectification" in the face of male sex desire ever since.

[Blouman Empire]

Going topless isn't what I usually think of when I think of male privilege - I tend to think more of the likelihood that I'll be mugged / raped / assaulted on the street vs. the likelihood of it happening to a female friend, but stupid laws were changed by civil disobedience (sit-ins, or in this case, taking them all off) and street protests, not writing congresscritters.

I vehemently disagree with the notion that women somehow expose themselves to danger by going topless. What kind of danger are they talking about? If it's about being arrested, see above. If it's something else, let's hear.

The professed danger, from what I understand, is that she has a higher chance of being raped or being viewed as a sex objects by the males around and condemned by other females. That if she were to be raped that at the trial the defense would argue that she was "asking for it" by not wearing a shirt.

Fixed, remember nothing is ever womens fault it is always the fault of men.

[Heinleinites]

Yeesh, then rag on me for that not Maurepas. But it was a joke, you know.

You should have known better than to make a joke to a feminist. "That's not funny" is practically NOW's motto.

Personally, I think that stating me going shirtless is subconscious oppression of womankind is kind of retarded. If it's true though, I've been doing a lot of oppressing because I'm shirtless all the time, except in the winter when it's too damn cold. And if my girl wanted to go shirtless just as often I wouldn't mind. But then, I don't have any neighbors either, and I do put on a shirt if I go into town or have to deal with the public.

[Ashmoria]

Going topless isn't what I usually think of when I think of male privilege - I tend to think more of the likelihood that I'll be mugged / raped / assaulted on the street vs. the likelihood of it happening to a female friend, but stupid laws were changed by civil disobedience (sit-ins, or in this case, taking them all off) and street protests, not writing congresscritters.

I vehemently disagree with the notion that women somehow expose themselves to danger by going topless. What kind of danger are they talking about? If it's about being arrested, see above. If it's something else, let's hear.

The professed danger, from what I understand, is that she has a higher chance of being raped or being viewed as a sex objects by the males around and condemned by other females. That if she were to be raped that at the trial the defense would argue that she was "asking for it" by not wearing a shirt.

Fixed, remember nothing is ever womens fault it is always the fault of men.

are you suggesting that if a shirtless woman WERE sexually assaulted it would be her fault?

[Farnhamia]

All I know is that it gets damn hot down here and I will not let some sore lady keep me from taking off my shirt while I roam around. And besides, I wouldn't protest if certain women take of their shirts.

Here Here!

I believe it's "Hear! Hear!"

Uh huh. I've seen Buffy's picture and he's pretty enough to get away with it.

Look, the inequity lies in the fact that I would be charged with indecent exposure if I took my shirt off in public but neither Buffy nor Maurepas would. It seems like a small thing but it's just another tile in the mosaic of treating women differently than men and not thinking there's something inherently wrong with that.

And I expected better than this from both of you, frankly.

I thought we were both saying that inequality should be lifted,

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but the "I wouldn't protest if certain women take off their shirts" rankled. I would expect it from Parth.

Really? I would expect some conservative argument for covering women up, tbqh,

From the man who gave us, "I have shit to do. I am not going to waste a few hours of my day just rolling around in bed or talking about her feelings when I could be preparing for a presentation at work, studying for class, drinking beer, or hitting on her other sorority sisters. I finish, give her ample time to, then sleep or leave. Its not easy being a publicly traded commodity with a high stock value"? I would expect "only cover up the ugly ones," etc.

I appreciate it that both you and Buffy do see the inequity and deplore it. It's just that throwing in remarks like "I wouldn't protest if certain women take of their shirts" throws your statement half over the fence into frat-boy territory.

Issues that concern the body and fashion are the hardest to deal with because they are very easily trivialized by that sort of humor, even if well-intentioned (I do get the joke, Buffy, which is why I deliberately said "pretty" in my response). The giggle-factor is too high here.

[Takaram]

Going topless isn't what I usually think of when I think of male privilege - I tend to think more of the likelihood that I'll be mugged / raped / assaulted on the street vs. the likelihood of it happening to a female friend, but stupid laws were changed by civil disobedience (sit-ins, or in this case, taking them all off) and street protests, not writing congresscritters.

I vehemently disagree with the notion that women somehow expose themselves to danger by going topless. What kind of danger are they talking about? If it's about being arrested, see above. If it's something else, let's hear.

The professed danger, from what I understand, is that she has a higher chance of being raped or being viewed as a sex objects by the males around and condemned by other females. That if she were to be raped that at the trial the defense would argue that she was "asking for it" by not wearing a shirt.

Fixed, remember nothing is ever womens fault it is always the fault of men.

are you suggesting that if a shirtless woman WERE sexually assaulted it would be her fault?

No, I think he's ridiculing the feminist movement, which is commonly stereotyped as regularly pushings an unfair amount of blame onto men in any situation.

[Blouman Empire]

As for hot work environments, I raised that question and think this rule should NOT apply to such. I think Women and Men should be segregated in a construction environment (not like that is an ideal job proscription for a feminine creature).

Separate but equal hey?

[Sarzonia]

But all men who have a six pack
and defined pecs should be forced
to go shirtless just to make at least
half the population a bit happier in
our depressing westernised lives.

This.