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PNN: Trial of Ravania Continues in TNP; Falsehoods Revealed

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Cerian Quilor
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Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:46 pm

What Charisma?

I mean, for people outside the bubble, while he can be a nice enough guy in the rare normal conversation, usually comes across (to me) as rather shrill, unleaderly, hysterical and blustering.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:47 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Belschaft wrote:Uni, it was every single Lt. you had at the time. And the bloody Chiefs of Staff. The only one who didn't take part at all was Bazlantis, as he was inactive.


I am completely unconcerned by this. They chose not to talk to me in unison about resigning and instead contemplated mutiny. I would have met their opposition with full-stop resistance -- you would have been annihilated and the Greenwood Band would have recovered swiftly. You can brag all you like about being mutinous, you would have gotten nowhere.

If Ballo hadn't been made an admin we wouldn't be having this conversation.


I would have defeated Ballotonia, as well, if he had chosen to have taken part in the mutiny. Simply because he was and still is my hero does not mean he was a hero for most of The United Defenders League -- only a smidgen of whom regularly attended our IRC.

And if they'd gone to you, your reaction would probably be a lot like it is now.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Mahaj
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Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:50 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:What Charisma?

I mean, for people outside the bubble, while he can be a nice enough guy in the rare normal conversation, usually comes across (to me) as rather shrill, unleaderly, hysterical and blustering.

Because you want him to be. Because you're in your own bubble, and you can't even realize that.
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Kandarin(Naivetry): You're going to have a great NS career ahead of you if you want it, Mahaj. :)
<@Eluvatar> Why is SkyDip such a purist raiderist
<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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Cerian Quilor
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Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:54 pm

No, I don't 'want' him to be Mahaj. That's just how he acts towards people on the other side of the aisle. I'm sure to his own friends and allies he's a perfectly nice guy. That's not the issue.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Klaus Devestatorie
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Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:17 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Belschaft wrote:Uni, it was every single Lt. you had at the time. And the bloody Chiefs of Staff. The only one who didn't take part at all was Bazlantis, as he was inactive.


I am completely unconcerned by this. They chose not to talk to me in unison about resigning and instead contemplated mutiny. I would have met their opposition with full-stop resistance -- you would have been annihilated and the Greenwood Band would have recovered swiftly. You can brag all you like about being mutinous, you would have gotten nowhere.


Markarth, The United Kingdom, Illuminati, Asgard, Kingdom of Ireland, Audux, The Kingdom of England. These are just a short splattering of regions in my mind where the highest power found him or herself in disagreement with the majority of the population, and decided that a purge was the solution. Just the very few that I can think of off the top of my head without backchecking bookmark lists and ingame dossiers and NSdossier histories, which I'd do if I wasn't trying to finish off one last assignment. Are you seriously arrogant enough to think that you could purge the entire government of your own region and last more than a couple of months? Most of the people behind these didn't last 24 hours in any meaningful capacity whatsoever. Watching you blow up your own organization would have been the most hilarious spectacular implosion since Patrick was given command of The Aeazen Combine in mid-2010.
Last edited by Klaus Devestatorie on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CRUOR is a supernatural force, a holy spirit-like entity of awesome power and knowledge.
CRUOR rewards her followers with power, knowledge and influence of their own, if their loyalty proves they are worthy.
CRUOR judges worthiness by loyalty to Blood (herself), loyalty to Brotherhood (fellow disciples), and loyalty to the core values of CRUOR.
The core values of CRUOR are Courage, Resolve, Unity, Order, and Ruthlessness.
CRUOR remembers everyone who has ever wronged her, and does not accept divided allegiances.
Devoted followers of CRUOR are rewarded with IMMORTALITY, a life beyond death.

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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:50 pm

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Are you seriously arrogant enough to think that you could purge the entire government of your own region and last more than a couple of months?


I wouldn't want to do it unless I had to. I could do it and recover, yes.

I don't know if I would stick with the game if my entire current Chiefs of Staff revolted though, some of these guys I trust deeply as friends -- it'd be pretty heartbreaking. If Belschaft and Milograd had lead a coup? Hell, yes, I would have removed those politicized Chiefs of Staff like they were a nasty tumor.
Last edited by Unibot III on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
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Belschaft
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Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Belschaft » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:07 pm

Uni, you seem to be attempting to write history backwards if you expect anyone to believe that Milograd was 'politicized' back in the spring of 2012.

Also, please stop using the term politicized in place of 'not a sycophantic member of my cult'.
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Bundabunda
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Founded: Mar 14, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bundabunda » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:42 pm

I don't contribute a lot to Gameplay-particularly because Antifa's a fun enough time for me, and stupid crap like this.

I have a fair bit of understanding, but I did notice this:

I wouldn't want to do it unless I had to. I could do it and recover, yes.

With leadership like "I could do it" "And recover", this is clearly a case of big egoism. The Chiefs of Staff, the ones who were calling for the stand down, don't they understand their usefulness if they left the org and formed their own?
Their's gotta be years of experience in the Lieutenants alone. If I were a Defender, I likely would've left for TITO or FRA at this point. It really makes no sense to me how an organization centered around one man's ego hasn't been in terminal decline earlier.

Anyways, I welcome this. Just another of the many cracks in the UDL's mentality of "taking the high ground" in a game.
I speak for myself and myself only.

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Lowell Leber
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Founded: Jan 27, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Lowell Leber » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:46 pm

Bundabunda wrote:I don't contribute a lot to Gameplay-particularly because Antifa's a fun enough time for me, and stupid crap like this.

I have a fair bit of understanding, but I did notice this:

I wouldn't want to do it unless I had to. I could do it and recover, yes.

With leadership like "I could do it" "And recover", this is clearly a case of big egoism. The Chiefs of Staff, the ones who were calling for the stand down, don't they understand their usefulness if they left the org and formed their own?
Their's gotta be years of experience in the Lieutenants alone. If I were a Defender, I likely would've left for TITO or FRA at this point. It really makes no sense to me how an organization centered around one man's ego hasn't been in terminal decline earlier.

Anyways, I welcome this. Just another of the many cracks in the UDL's mentality of "taking the high ground" in a game.


EDIT: Evan as a relatively inexperienced participant in Gameplay, I find someone from ANTIFA casting dispersions against UDL or any other Gameplay group to be laughable.
Last edited by Lowell Leber on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bundabunda
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Founded: Mar 14, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bundabunda » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:49 pm

Lowell Leber wrote:EDIT: Evan as a relatively inexperienced participant in Gameplay, I find someone from ANTIFA casting dispersions against UDL or any other Gameplay group to be laughable.


Considering Antifa's never backstabbed friends and tried to influence democratic setups of comrade regions, Antifa, by that extension still has more credibility than the UDL.
I speak for myself and myself only.

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Lowell Leber
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Posts: 2117
Founded: Jan 27, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Lowell Leber » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:00 pm

Bundabunda wrote:
Lowell Leber wrote:EDIT: Evan as a relatively inexperienced participant in Gameplay, I find someone from ANTIFA casting dispersions against UDL or any other Gameplay group to be laughable.


Considering Antifa's never backstabbed friends and tried to influence democratic setups of comrade regions, Antifa, by that extension still has more credibility than the UDL.


But attacking and/or worse wussy re-founding of regions that have at, at best, a tenuous connection to Fascism or National Socialism strikes me as an equal sin...So if you live in a glass house, don't throw stones. Just Sayin'.
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Bundabunda
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Founded: Mar 14, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bundabunda » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:05 pm

Lowell Leber wrote:
Bundabunda wrote:But attacking and/or worse wussy re-founding of regions that have at, at best, a tenuous connection to Fascism or National Socialism strikes me as an equal sin...So if you live in a glass house, don't throw stones. Just Sayin'.


Obviously you can't read the sig. I was referencing my Antifa connection as to why I don't show up to this side of gameplay. Just Sayin', totes whatevs yeah?

I would actually love to get your input in on that. Antifa doesn't really hide the fact that it's destroying regions or even remotely influencing major ones, which the UDL has (failed) to do from the inside. There's a lot more people affected by this than your run of the mill, no pot to piss in member of the
GGR.

EDIT: Obviously Lowell here is trying to discredit me on the basis of ANTIFA membership, the accusations of hypocrisy, all that, the same tired arguments. I've noticed that Mahaj has tried doing the same. Any reasonable critique of the UDL has to be disregarded because of someone's background, thereby making it an invalid point.

That tactic is probably why so many ex-UDL members (Chiefs of Staff mind you) are speaking out now. All power to Dear Uni.
Last edited by Bundabunda on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lowell Leber
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Founded: Jan 27, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Lowell Leber » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:10 pm

Sorry I missed your Signature. I thought you were opining as flag waving member of ANTIFA, which would have lessened your creditability in my book. Anyways looking back I feel like I have started a threadjack, so enough out of me.
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Bundabunda
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Founded: Mar 14, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bundabunda » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:14 pm

Lowell Leber wrote:Sorry I missed your Signature. I thought you were opining as flag waving member of ANTIFA, which would have lessened your creditability in my book. Anyways looking back I feel like I have started a threadjack, so enough out of me.


There's not too many members with an interest in non antifascist related gameplay.
I speak for myself and myself only.

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Cromarty
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Posts: 6198
Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cromarty » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:08 am

Bundabunda wrote:
Lowell Leber wrote:Sorry I missed your Signature. I thought you were opining as flag waving member of ANTIFA, which would have lessened your creditability in my book. Anyways looking back I feel like I have started a threadjack, so enough out of me.


There's not too many members with an interest in non antifascist related gameplay.

But the loudest always seem to make themselves available to support certain raids. :roll:
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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
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Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:12 am

Can we talk about how awful Antifa is in another topic please? There's already more than enough awful in this one to talk about.
CRUOR is a supernatural force, a holy spirit-like entity of awesome power and knowledge.
CRUOR rewards her followers with power, knowledge and influence of their own, if their loyalty proves they are worthy.
CRUOR judges worthiness by loyalty to Blood (herself), loyalty to Brotherhood (fellow disciples), and loyalty to the core values of CRUOR.
The core values of CRUOR are Courage, Resolve, Unity, Order, and Ruthlessness.
CRUOR remembers everyone who has ever wronged her, and does not accept divided allegiances.
Devoted followers of CRUOR are rewarded with IMMORTALITY, a life beyond death.

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Alyekra
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Founded: May 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Alyekra » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:35 am

I honestly don't get why everyone is condemning the UDL for this. Espionage ought to be an unfortunate, but accepted facet of gameplay.
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Kogvuron
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Founded: Oct 30, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Kogvuron » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:15 am

Alyekra wrote:I honestly don't get why everyone is condemning the UDL for this. Espionage ought to be an unfortunate, but accepted facet of gameplay.

The problem is that it happened in a neutral/centrist feeder region. If this happened in a raider region, I don't think anyone would be making a big deal out of it.
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Biyah
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Biyah » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:48 am

Don't forget the trifling fact of oaths and citizenship in TNP.
-Citizen of Osiris
-Lord Mavros, Patriarch of The House of Rahl.
-Better at this than you, live with it.

So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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AS22
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Posts: 188
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby AS22 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:04 am

I find Belschaft's conduct in this thread disgusting.

Belschaft has a knack for hubris. He thinks wading in the crap of TNP's legal system makes him a lawyer, lurking in raider IRCs makes him an intelligence agent, and tagging barren WFEs makes him something that is even remotely resembling of the raiding culture.

He thinks getting voted into power by a UDL constituency and then abdicating his position - in game - makes him a feeder delegate to be lauded.

And who did he abdicate to? When suffering from a self-described illness of a deeply personal nature, who did he abdicate to? Despite the fact that the South Pacific has standing Vice Delegates?

Unibot

He literally handed off his WA delegate nation to Unibot.

And now, as the wolves are at the door he has turned on him and presented himself as some kind of quasi-Francoist/feeder-independence advocate. This is the man who had a melt down in TSP's private cabinet because no one wanted to sign up with his FRA, which under his leadership was a predictable non-force in the face of Unibot's tireless UDL-centric efforts.

The idea that any of the current LTs could replace Unibot is absolute garbage. Given Belschaft's exhibitions with regard to his character, it is likely any such meetings on the subject were merely frivolous machinations stemming from Belschaft's delusions of grandeur.

Do I agree with Unibot on everything? The record clearly shows not. As a Francoist I disagree with what is an attack on a feeder government and the manipulation of the democratic instruments therein - which again, is something Belschaft abused to become delegate in TSP. Perhaps not this blatantly, but at the end of the day he benefited from the inter-regional defender network that Unibot created to get elected into TSP.

But I also recognize that the government of TNP more resembles an amalgamation of divergent Userite interests than a true, sovereign feeder. This the the destiny of all feeders who disregard the wisdom of Francos Spain and create overly-liberal institutions which then solicit Userite abuse. The "natives" of TNP were never under threat by this espionage, because quite frankly the forum disregards them as they are too busy suing each other in their courts.

At the end of the day I don't agree with what Unibot did, but what I can't stand is the sight of Userite Belschaft - a complete sycophant who leveraged Unibot's efforts to exert political control over the South Pacific - now turn on him and try to put a new mask on.

I was in the UDL. Belschaft often liked to sit and complain about the caliber of the average soldier in the org, often lamenting that they didn't understand even the basics of gameplay and couldn't operate independently.

Did he offer to train them? No, it would be Unibot's job to sort that out.

When promoting GP in the South Pacific his efforts were contained to 3 or so updaters and the region at large was not involved. When reformers took three warzones and mobolized over 30 South Pacific WA residents onto the battlefield, was Belschaft to be found among the participants despite the fact that he would later lay claim to feeder-warzone actions?

No. It was Unibot who freely lent an updater at moment's notice so that we could hit all our targets.

At the end of the day I just want to make it clear for the historical record.

Belschaft is a lazy, deceitful opportunist who has ridden Unibot's coattails his entire career. Unibot could quit the game this instant and Belschaft would still never be the player Unibot is.

And as an addition, the presence of Biyah here makes this entire thread even more laughable. The guy who commits coups in the complete absence of any principle is now giving lectures on proper behavior.

Please spend another Christmas/New Years/winter holiday drunk on IRC in a pathetic attempt to retain some of your infamy by stabbing your own region in the back.

[20:53] <@Biyah`Drunk> We're withholding 'confession' post to the sepatarchy, that really points out holes, until Ely accents
03[20:53] * Gaspo is now known as Gaspo`Drunk
[20:53] <+Gaspo`Drunk> LET'S FUCKING DO THIS
[20:53] <@Biyah`Drunk> I don't get him, I really dont
06[20:53] * @Dali|out doesn't want to have to regret not banjecting more people
[20:53] <@Biyah`Drunk> eh, we're good Dali
[20:54] <+Gaspo`Drunk> DALI
[20:54] <@Dali|out> Anyway, I'll probably see you all in 2013, so Happy New Years!
[20:54] <+Gaspo`Drunk> GET DRUNK WITH BIYAH AND I
[20:54] <+Gaspo`Drunk> NO
[20:54] <+Gaspo`Drunk> FUCK YOU
[20:54] <@Dali|out> I'M GOING OUT
[20:54] <@Biyah`Drunk> am about to step away
[20:55] <@Biyah`Drunk> Im starting to get depsressed

[22:02] <@Biyah-Mobile> God save me, I hate people
Biyah does not want you to see THIS (scroll all the way down)
[20:52] <PurpleHaze> r u trying to recruit me Unibot?
[20:53] <Unibot> ....
[20:53] * Unibot looks around.
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> i thought u'd know from my IP
[20:53] <Unibot> Errrmm..
[20:53] <Unibot> <_<
[20:53] <Unibot> >_>
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> I am Anur-Sanur/Hax/Horak/Frak
[20:53] <Unibot> Ahhhhhhh
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> and your mother
[20:53] * Unibot runs. :P
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> tee hee
[20:54] * PurpleHaze kisses Unibot
[20:54] <Unibot> ^_^
(who I am known as)

Francos Spain Forever

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Southern Bellz
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Posts: 621
Founded: Oct 04, 2008
Democratic Socialists

Postby Southern Bellz » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:07 am

AS22 wrote: As a Francoist I


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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AS22
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Posts: 188
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby AS22 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:12 am

Southern Bellz wrote:
AS22 wrote: As a Francoist I


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Nothing you would know about, Of Crazed.

You lost your delegacy to a bored Sedgistan and welcomed in the Userite-defenders with open arms, only to have your eyes forced open by AMOM.
Last edited by AS22 on Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Biyah does not want you to see THIS (scroll all the way down)
[20:52] <PurpleHaze> r u trying to recruit me Unibot?
[20:53] <Unibot> ....
[20:53] * Unibot looks around.
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> i thought u'd know from my IP
[20:53] <Unibot> Errrmm..
[20:53] <Unibot> <_<
[20:53] <Unibot> >_>
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> I am Anur-Sanur/Hax/Horak/Frak
[20:53] <Unibot> Ahhhhhhh
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> and your mother
[20:53] * Unibot runs. :P
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> tee hee
[20:54] * PurpleHaze kisses Unibot
[20:54] <Unibot> ^_^
(who I am known as)

Francos Spain Forever

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Southern Bellz
Diplomat
 
Posts: 621
Founded: Oct 04, 2008
Democratic Socialists

Postby Southern Bellz » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:22 am

:lol:

Hey NS. My name is Southern Bellz. Another nation of mine is Of Crazed. Of Crazed was a member of DEN and did a lot of bad things in this game I won't apologize for.

I also used to be delegate of The South Pacific and got couped by Sedge because I was not vigilant with my endo swapping.

Feel free to quote this AS22 anytime you respond to a post I make so I can save you a lot of time. I even left in your omission bias. :hug:

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AS22
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Oct 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby AS22 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:29 am

Southern Bellz wrote::lol:

Hey NS. My name is Southern Bellz. Another nation of mine is Of Crazed. Of Crazed was a member of DEN and did a lot of bad things in this game I won't apologize for.

I also used to be delegate of The South Pacific and got couped by Sedge because I was not vigilant with my endo swapping.

Feel free to quote this AS22 anytime you respond to a post I make so I can save you a lot of time. I even left in your omission bias. :hug:


You are leaving out the fact that even though you have the legacy of a raider, you had to rely on Userite-defenders to retake your delegacy. The same Userites you would leverage to suppress a post-coup reform movement, only to then turn on some of them when AMOM put the evidence right under your noise.

And "not vigilant" is a gross understatement. Your entire tarting operation was so outdated it made strangelove look like Toaster. Under your delegacy TSP was irrelevant, it was Sedgistan who was the genesis of its renaissance.
Biyah does not want you to see THIS (scroll all the way down)
[20:52] <PurpleHaze> r u trying to recruit me Unibot?
[20:53] <Unibot> ....
[20:53] * Unibot looks around.
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> i thought u'd know from my IP
[20:53] <Unibot> Errrmm..
[20:53] <Unibot> <_<
[20:53] <Unibot> >_>
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> I am Anur-Sanur/Hax/Horak/Frak
[20:53] <Unibot> Ahhhhhhh
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> and your mother
[20:53] * Unibot runs. :P
[20:53] <PurpleHaze> tee hee
[20:54] * PurpleHaze kisses Unibot
[20:54] <Unibot> ^_^
(who I am known as)

Francos Spain Forever

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Biyah
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 384
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Biyah » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:54 am

That's nice. You know those logs you pasted out of context? Yeah, we were talking about holding our requested confessions until Elu dropped charges as was already agreed by the Pharaoh - which was done a couple days later by a new AG.

And given I'd just gotten in a fight with someone I cared about that night, I was depressed. Minus that first line, pretty much, it's all of a personal non-NS nature. Bravo, Frak, you've sunk to a new low.

-MODS - I request you remove that log.

Lovely manuver Frak, completely underhanded. I find it amazing that people accuse -me- of having no scruples, but I don't post personal logs in that manner. You, Sir, are one of the greatest hypocrites in Nationstates.


Now back to game matters.

1: You're as much a francosit as I am a wholly rhino. You don't follow the ideals, either of the past or new (now abolished) neo-francoism. Stop claiming it, nobody in the Pacific would have you. They slapped you down when you first claimed it, they still do.

2: you have no right to call anyone anything, given how many feeders you've tried (and failed) to overthrow. Your own activities are even more devious than my own. Whatever you say, I have my principles, and I follow them to the letter. Do you?

3: My presence in this thread has been to askquestions, which were polite. If you can point out anywhere that I was insulting someone, by all means, quote it. Otherwise, you're just writing (more) badly done propaganda.


Face it Frak, you're terrible at this. AND you're hypocritical for posting non-NS logs here, to supposedly prove a point.
Last edited by Biyah on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Citizen of Osiris
-Lord Mavros, Patriarch of The House of Rahl.
-Better at this than you, live with it.

So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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