What's the value of tradition?

[Old Tyrannia]

Tradition is the collective knowledge, identity and experience of a group of people over numerous generations. Traditions represent centuries of past experience; it's not an ideological blueprint but what's been tried and tested, the knowledge and guidance of our ancestors, not to mention their legacy. Tradition is part of the "social contract" that exists not only between people living today but the past, present and future generations within a society, and to abandon tradition is to betray our forefathers who live on through that tradition. It is what gives a society its own identity, binding the people of that society together. It stands to reason that the amassed wisdom of dozens, even hundreds of previous generations should be greater than that of a handful of people in the here and now, which is why we look to tradition for guidance, for identity, and to connect with those who came before us and made our lives what they are now.

Not to mention that without other cultures and traditions, this world would be a far, far less interesting place to live in.

So, you'd see tradition as knowledge?

In a sense, yes; knowledge, guidance and experience passed down from one generation to another.

[Cabra West]

What do you mean it can't be fought? Tradition is preserved right up until the point that people don't want to preserve it anymore. This doesn't mean that tradition can't be preserved only because one day people will stop caring. More to the point, just because people might not want to preserve it in the future doesn't mean money shouldn't be spent on preserving it for the people who do.

Ok, I admit confusion. When I'm talking about tradition being preserved, I usually have a top-down, somewhat enforced preservation in mind. If it was just people carrying on I think I'd refer to that as continuing a tradition rather than preserving it.

The confusion for me arises because if people continue a tradition, any tradition, they have a habit of changing it in the process. A sort of evolution, if you want.
Whereas if some government or charity or any other kind of body starts making efforts preserving a tradition, you usually end up with something static, and, for lack of a better word, dead and swimming in a jar of formaldehyde. Something that's put on for tourists, something that has lost its connection with the people it came from and has become artificial.

[The Celestrian Empire]

I'm sorry, but I am stunned by this dolt. Just look at the region he belongs to. "We want an America for the Americans" is their motto

[Old Tyrannia]

I'm sorry, but I am stunned by this dolt. Just look at the region he belongs to. "We want an America for the Americans" is their motto

Well, I want an America for the British, so I guess he and I will have to have words.

Long live the Queen.

[Cabra West]

I'm sorry, but I am stunned by this dolt. Just look at the region he belongs to. "We want an America for the Americans" is their motto

So do the Venezuelans I work with...

[The Celestrian Empire]

'Merika... best god damn state in the universe!

[Risottia]

I'm sorry, but I am stunned by this dolt. Just look at the region he belongs to. "We want an America for the Americans" is their motto

You should be really avoiding attacking the poster. Attack the post instead.

'Merika... best god damn state in the universe!

Also, avoid derailing the thread (aka, threadjacking).

You might want to familiarize yourself with the local forum rules (use the search function).
All the cool kids are doing it! You should, too!

/notamod

[Dremono]

In my opinion, it keeps societies apart from each other and cultures preserved.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

The morality you and I both share, but you're too cowardly to fight for it because of Leftist peer pressure that's been beaten into you since you were a youngin'.

*sigh*...
yes, what is that morality, buddy Progressive-Conservative?

The value of tradition, and nearly anything related to it, is emotional and to some extent social. It keeps people happy and divided, is all.

[Yankee Empire]

So, what value is there in traditions? What value is there in preserving them?

Only value of tradition is sentimental and there isn't good reason to artificially prop it up. Culture needs to evolve or die.

And how do you preserve traditions to begin with?

You dont. Thats job of bearers of the culture, no one else's.

The fact that things stick around so long encourages the thought that their is value to them, people can liek these tradtions but it's often more than just "We like them because we have them".
No it goeas beyond that, what place do these traditions hold in society, how do hey affect the people in that society.

But lets say it were jsut sentimentality? Why is that not enough? If Millions of people sharea sentimentality then that createsa unifying force within a nation and this has ramifications far beyond the tradition itself.
And what makes trying to keep Traditions "Artificial"? What make ridding them "Natural evolution", hell using the same logic while some species rapidly change in evolution over millions of years other reamin practicall the same because it works, there is no need to change and this could be likened to tradtions as well.
Why isn't trying to get rid of them considered artificial? I think it's just an empty word at this point.

[Yankee Empire]

The default value of a tradition is nil, unless it restricts civil liberties. In which case its value is below zero.

Can you substantiate this claim?

[Regnum Dominae]

Only value of tradition is sentimental and there isn't good reason to artificially prop it up. Culture needs to evolve or die.


You dont. Thats job of bearers of the culture, no one else's.

The fact that things stick around so long encourages the thought that their is value to them, people can liek these tradtions but it's often more than just "We like them because we have them".
No it goeas beyond that, what place do these traditions hold in society, how do hey affect the people in that society.

But lets say it were jsut sentimentality? Why is that not enough? If Millions of people sharea sentimentality then that createsa unifying force within a nation and this has ramifications far beyond the tradition itself.
And what makes trying to keep Traditions "Artificial"? What make ridding them "Natural evolution", hell using the same logic while some species rapidly change in evolution over millions of years other reamin practicall the same because it works, there is no need to change and this could be likened to tradtions as well.
Why isn't trying to get rid of them considered artificial? I think it's just an empty word at this point.

After you fix all your spelling and grammar errors, I will get to addressing all the contradictions and fallacies in your post.

[Transhuman Proteus]

In my opinion, it keeps societies apart from each other and cultures preserved.

Is there any inherent value in "preserving" culture? I mean all but the most controlled and stagnant cultures will evolve and change at varying paces, trying to stop it is just a recipe for tears.

[Yankee Empire]

The fact that things stick around so long encourages the thought that their is value to them, people can like these tradtions but it's often more than just "We like them because we have them".
No it goes beyond that, what place do these traditions hold in society, how do hey affect the people in that society.

But lets say it were just sentimentality? Why is that not enough? If Millions of people share a sentimentality then that creates a unifying force within a nation and this has ramifications far beyond the tradition itself.
And what makes trying to keep Traditions "Artificial"? What make ridding them "Natural evolution", hell using the same logic while some species rapidly change in evolution over millions of years other reamain practically the same because it works, there is no need to change and this could be likened to tradtions as well.
Why isn't trying to get rid of them considered artificial? I think it's just an empty word at this point.

After you fix all your spelling and grammar errors, I will get to addressing all the contradictions and fallacies in your post.

Appreciate it.

[Yankee Empire]

In my opinion, it keeps societies apart from each other and cultures preserved.

Is there any inherent value in "preserving" culture? I mean all but the most controlled and stagnant cultures will evolve and change at varying paces, trying to stop it is just a recipe for tears.

So is trying to drastically "Improve" things that are fine as they are.

[Ostroeuropa]

There is no value in tradition.
Only in occams razor.

"Does changing it benefit anyone?"
"No."
"Why bother."

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

And what would be the "morality" you'd wish to enforce on other people just because you happen to like it?

The morality you and I both share, but you're too cowardly to fight for it because of Leftist peer pressure that's been beaten into you since you were a youngin'.

Kindly refrain from flaming your fellow posters. There are better ways of expressing yourself than resorting to petty namecalling. See [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=74486]here[/ur] for further clarification.

[Regnum Dominae]

The morality you and I both share, but you're too cowardly to fight for it because of Leftist peer pressure that's been beaten into you since you were a youngin'.

Kindly refrain from flaming your fellow posters. There are better ways of expressing yourself than resorting to petty namecalling. See here for further clarification.

Fixed that link for you

[Yankee Empire]

There is no value in tradition.
Only in occams razor.

"Does changing it benefit anyone?"
"No."
"Why bother."

Lets throw out all that "men are created equal out the window/entitled to certain unallienable rights" and all the values of "the Enlightenment" out the window.

Come on time to leave those fossils behind and improve!

Out with the old useless Traditions!

[Geo]

The default value of a tradition is nil, unless it restricts civil liberties. In which case its value is below zero.

Can you substantiate this claim?

What is the objective value of traditions? Objective, not subjective.

[Risottia]

In my opinion, it keeps societies apart from each other and cultures preserved.

Why would you want to keep societies apart?

[Cabra West]

There is no value in tradition.
Only in occams razor.

"Does changing it benefit anyone?"
"No."
"Why bother."

I think that razor needs another edge:

"Does changing it benefit anyone?"
"Yes"
"Does it hurt anyone?"
"Yes"
"Keep it as it is, then"

[Ostroeuropa]

There is no value in tradition.
Only in occams razor.

"Does changing it benefit anyone?"
"No."
"Why bother."

Lets throw out all that "men are created equal out the window/entitled to certain unallienable rights" and all the values of "the Enlightenment" out the window.

Come on time to leave those fossils behind and improve!

Out with the old useless Traditions!

The value of those things isn't tradition. They are valueable in and of themselves, and were just as valueable when first enforced as they are today.

[Yankee Empire]

Can you substantiate this claim?

What is the objective value of traditions? Objective, not subjective.

What would an Objective Value of Traditions be?

And why does something need to have an Objective Value to justify it's existance?

[Zonolia]

Tradition is meaningless and unimportant. We should focus on progress instead of clinging to the past.

Thank you...this, this, and this...

Progress at any rate is better than regress at a constant rate.