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Belschaft
Minister
 
Posts: 2410
Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Belschaft » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:37 pm

Lyanna Stark wrote:
I wouldn't say TSP is anymore of a R/D battleground than say TNP, or any other GCR with a substantial number of players of both raider and defender alignment and a sufficiently democratic system that one or the other side doesn't get shut down. For example neither TRR, Osiris or Balder have major R/D conflict; in TRR due to the democratic deficit of the region (traditionally - I understand CrazySedge is less overbearing than previously) preventing any challenge to the pro-defender status-quo whilst Osiris and Balder have such dominant majorities (respectively defender and raider) that there is no serious conflict.

I honestly would disagree with you here. TRR most certainly is not run by the CG/Sedge Duo and hasn't been for..well, at least a year easily. If you still think that is the dominate force you have not been in TRR at all recently. You could argue we have a democratic deficit for sure or a government that is so simple it doesn't lead to 'legislative conflict' or have any way of removing the Delegate besides for someone challenging for the position. Which means that if someone is mad but not mad enough to want to be Delegate...the status quo can live on. :P

Also the idea that Osiris is defender is really preposterous. We -still- are one of (if not the) only GCRs to even raid non-Nazi regions in like the last..what..year? It's more just anyone that comes in with that mentality gets shut down pretty damn fast because the community's really well, settled I guess, nor is that at all like the main point of the region or anything near that. We've more just done what we've wanted since the beginning and Georgie is right about the more top-down approach that keeps us from the huge TNP-esque fights.

Overall, I certainly wouldn't say there's a "best GCR". There isn't, frankly--there's one that's best for you as an individual possibly, but not one that's a solve-all for everyone. For instance, I like TNP and enjoy being a citizen there but have no plans on running for anything in Government there as it's a bit too quick-paced and yelly for me. I'm not going into TWP as it seems like a hard community to break into when you've been elsewhere, at least. Osiris and TRR both work well for me--they're a bit laid back but have their hotspots sometimes and things proceed at a pace that I can manage with well and Osiris at least historically has focused a lot on it's own history.

I certainly wouldn't say that GCRs are, by default, faster paced than UCRs--I remember when TRR's forum was literally just dead, nor would I say GCRs are the best places for everyone. It's it's own outlook too. I certainly enjoyed my time in the "broker" regions and smaller "niche" regions and found that they were also fast-paced which is what I wanted at the time.

Well, I did say traditionally :P

I understand that CrazySedge takes a more hands off approach than it used to in regards to TRR ever since becoming an admin, but if you truly think it's talons have been removed from the region I suggest you propose something as eminently reasonable as the Rejected Realms actually having control over the Rejected Realms Army - it'll be interesting to see what happens.

As for Osiris, whilst you undoubtedly are far better informed regarding it than myself, I should point out that I didn't say it was a defender region. What I said was that it had a dominant defender majority - especially in terms of its political class. Unlike TNP or TSP there isn't as even a balance between R/D in terms of the backgrounds of the players at the top, and as such there is less fertile ground for arguments regarding it.

I'd also contest the idea that Osiris, or any GCR for that matter, currently raids. Several of them, Osiris most successfully and prominently, conduct invasions but are hardly raider. The targeting of specific regions for either political or cultural reasons isn't raiding, which is indiscriminate. There is nothing contradictory between invading and defending - ask TITO or the old RLA.

I'm in full agreement with you regarding the fact that there is no 'best' GCR however. We all have our own little quirks, traditions, atmospheres and so on, that make us distinct and attractive to different players. That's part of what's great about the GCR's at present; there really is one for everyone (or nearly everyone at least).
You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of.
You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.

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Eldarion Telcontar
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Eldarion Telcontar » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:45 pm

Unibot III wrote:Georgie's list is fairly comprehensive, but I think that there is TNI/Native dynamic in Lazarus, similar to what occurred in Balder. Look at the last election in Lazarus -- Viktoria Gryfynn runs for delegate. Her votes? All TNI citizens (NES, Apollo, Charles Cerebella). Feux won by one vote.

I'm still a TNI citizen? I thought my nation had CTE'd by now. Uni knows more than me lol.
Augustus Anumia

King-Emeritus of Ainur


Ashton Mercer wrote:Some college could do an entire study of the social interactions of Ainur for a decade and get nowhere.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7323
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:48 pm

Bel is correct that Osiris is the GCR that leans most defender just on the basis of the aggregate ideological score -- according to my statistics. But Earth is also correct that Osiris itself is def. not a defender region (in fact it is one of the farthest from enacting defender-leaning policies) and there's quite a cultural norm built up around the idea of defending Osiris's neutrality/independence.

That's the major limitation of aggregating ideological scores of individuals -- because they don't necessarily translate into practice if there are overarching regional norms that the individuals abide by.

I'm still a TNI citizen?


You said you were a TNI citizen in your signature on the Lazarus forum:

Citizen of Lazarus, Balder, Europeia and The New Inquisition


All I know is, if a UDL member ran for delegate, narrowly lost and received entirely votes from other UDL members -- while other UDL members didn't vote for another candidate... yeah, heads would roll from the feederite police.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:52 pm

Eldarion Telcontar wrote:
Unibot III wrote:Georgie's list is fairly comprehensive, but I think that there is TNI/Native dynamic in Lazarus, similar to what occurred in Balder. Look at the last election in Lazarus -- Viktoria Gryfynn runs for delegate. Her votes? All TNI citizens (NES, Apollo, Charles Cerebella). Feux won by one vote.

I'm still a TNI citizen? I thought my nation had CTE'd by now. Uni knows more than me lol.

They only do the checks periodically, Apollo. P
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Common-Sense Politics
Envoy
 
Posts: 290
Founded: Sep 26, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Common-Sense Politics » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:59 pm

Europeia doesn't have periods of inactivity. Atleast come check us out.
President of Europeia

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:02 pm

Europeia is indeed always buzzing, as is, for that matter, Ainur, my comment to goad Apollo nonwithstanding. :P
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Eldarion Telcontar
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Eldarion Telcontar » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:05 pm

I'm still a TNI citizen?


You said you were a TNI citizen in your signature on the Lazarus forum:

Citizen of Lazarus, Balder, Europeia and The New Inquisition


Didn't know it would still be valid. :P Gah, like I have time for anything anymore.
Augustus Anumia

King-Emeritus of Ainur


Ashton Mercer wrote:Some college could do an entire study of the social interactions of Ainur for a decade and get nowhere.

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Belschaft
Minister
 
Posts: 2410
Founded: Mar 19, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Belschaft » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:06 pm

Stop advertising your dirty little UCR's in the GCR thread :P
You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of.
You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.

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Eldarion Telcontar
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Eldarion Telcontar » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:07 pm

Belschaft wrote:Stop advertising your dirty little UCR's in the GCR thread :P


Quote from a recruit TG I used for a bit: "At the beginning of the game, your nation is spawned into a Pacific region, where every new nation is born; these regions tend to have weak governments and frequent coup d’états. [region=Ainur] is the best region choice for you because we are safe, friendly, and a great place for your nation to grow."

n00bs are fun. :P
Augustus Anumia

King-Emeritus of Ainur


Ashton Mercer wrote:Some college could do an entire study of the social interactions of Ainur for a decade and get nowhere.

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:16 pm

Belschaft wrote:Stop advertising your dirty little UCR's in the GCR thread :P

If you're allowed to get free nations, we're allowed to do this. :P
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Charles Cerebella
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Jul 31, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Charles Cerebella » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:19 pm

Eldarion Telcontar wrote:
I'm still a TNI citizen?


You said you were a TNI citizen in your signature on the Lazarus forum:

Citizen of Lazarus, Balder, Europeia and The New Inquisition


Didn't know it would still be valid. :P Gah, like I have time for anything anymore.


It will end up being me that has to de-mask two years of inactive citizens so it has not been something I've prompted the relevant people to actually check :P

And to clarify, I joined Laz again through/because of Balder and I've been one of the most active citizens on the forum there since. I don't think I've missed any votes in the Council and I'm on and posting everyday. I'd like to think I can be more than just affiliated to one region.
Charles Cerebella

King of Albion

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Kogvuron
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 395
Founded: Oct 30, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Kogvuron » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:21 pm

Common-Sense Politics wrote:Europeia doesn't have periods of inactivity. Atleast come check us out.

Image
"It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul. " - William Ernest Henley

"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once." - Julius Caesar

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:34 pm

What the hell is that cartoon even supposed to be about? Many regions have mandatory recruitment or some variation thereof.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7323
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:45 pm

Charles Cerebella wrote:And to clarify, I joined Laz again through/because of Balder and I've been one of the most active citizens on the forum there since. I don't think I've missed any votes in the Council and I'm on and posting everyday. I'd like to think I can be more than just affiliated to one region.


You're starting to sound like UDL members .. and you know what, you're right!
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Eras //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:46 pm

UDL isn't a region :P
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7323
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:47 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:UDL isn't a region :P


You know what, you're right!
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Eras //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:55 pm

My point is that because the UDL isn't a region, people percieve it differantly.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7323
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:57 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:My point is that because the UDL isn't a region, people percieve it differantly.


Completely arbitrarily, but alright. I agree with that statement.
Last edited by Unibot III on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25-05-2008 | Former Delegate of TRR

Factbook // Collected works // Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Eras //
9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Headlines from Unibot // WASC HQ: A Guide

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✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:My point is that because the UDL isn't a region, people percieve it differantly.


Completely arbitrarily, but alright. I agree with that statement.

I'm not saying its /fair/.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Charles Cerebella
Envoy
 
Posts: 306
Founded: Jul 31, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Charles Cerebella » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:58 am

Three consecutive posts agreeing, and with things Cerian has said :blink:
Charles Cerebella

King of Albion

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Cerian Quilor
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerian Quilor » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:33 am

Charles Cerebella wrote:Three consecutive posts agreeing, and with things Cerian has said :blink:

Yea.

Are you alright, Uni? No fever or anything? :P
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

User avatar
Libetarian Republics
Diplomat
 
Posts: 827
Founded: Oct 02, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Libetarian Republics » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:20 am

lolz

There really isn't a best GCR. It's basically on your own perspective on how you consider "best". Things will change in the future than the present. :P

aka basically what everyone said before me.

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Feux
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1578
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Feux » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:22 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:I've contacted the greatest fictional detective ever to have been written: Hercule Poirot. We shall see if he can get to the bottom of this.

Oh! Here he is right now! Well, what's the verdict, Herc?

(Image)

Well, there you have it. Undeniable proof right there.

Again Todd, you win. :P
Always Changing Shapes
Ostlantis wrote:...one day you will realize your toaster is actually Feux. Your dog? It was Feux all along. Your entire family? 20+ year infiltration by Feux. Everything is Feux.

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Brutland and Norden
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1102
Founded: Dec 12, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Brutland and Norden » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:33 pm

Mad Jack wrote:TSP has a strange and unusual method for delegate selection and it wouldn't be inaccurate to call it an ideological R/D battleground.

We TSPers thrive on the strange and unusual. :P

Belschaft wrote:If I was to describe TSP I wouldn't say we had major problems. Rather I'd say that our defining characteristics are an emphasis on Regional consensus and cohesion, rather than adversarial politics, and a wacky laid back nature - we are considered the crazy feeder :P

Also, communism.

But I'm not crazy enough to institute communism in TSP. Unless, of course, everything would be collectivized under my name. :p
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Solorni
Minister
 
Posts: 3024
Founded: Sep 04, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Solorni » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:45 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:It seems to me (from what little I've seen) that when GCRs are in inactive periods, they are in inactive periods. Much more so than similar times in UCRs. But when they're active, they have comparable levels of activity to leading UCRs.

I would say it would depend on the UCR, many UCRs simply die with inactive periods :p
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Proud Delegate of WALL

Lucky Number 13

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