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SUBMITTED: Repeal Liberate Free Thought

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Burchadinger
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Ex-Nation

SUBMITTED: Repeal Liberate Free Thought

Postby Burchadinger » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:25 am

Description: WA Security Council Resolution #14: Liberate Free Thought shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: The Security Council,

NOTES that Security Council Resolution #14 had the aim of Liberating Free Thought.

ALSO notes that the last WA resolution was passed by the slimmest margin in NS history. 50.5%

THE Security Council, and The World Assembly as a whole, realizes the resolution ended with a reported time frame of eleven hours left, giving voters a sort of false impression that there was time to spare for a vote to be cast and have a great potential to influence the final say.

NOTES that many regions and WA Members were affected by the above.

HEREBY repeals Liberate Free Thought, as it was a complete breech of democracy.


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Enn
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Ex-Nation

Postby Enn » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:40 am

Quite aside from anything else (because I don't like to get involved in raider/defender arguments), the word is 'breach'. 'Breech' refers to a bum. Or butt, in American English.
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Cinistra
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cinistra » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:41 am

No. Let it be. A victory by a narrow margin is a victory none the less. People must learn to admit defeat.
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Oh my Days
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Ex-Nation

Postby Oh my Days » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:46 am

I approved this but because I didn't support the original resolution, it did go through the democratic process and doesn't need a re-vote.
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A mean old man
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby A mean old man » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:43 am

Prepare yourself for another amazingly bad...
Image
A: SC#16 - Repeal "Liberate The Security Council"
A: SC#26 - Commend The Joint Systems Alliance
A: SC#30 - Commend 10000 Islands
A: SC#37 - Condemn NAZI EUROPE
A: SC#38 - Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"
A: GA#149 - On Expiration Dates
C: SC#58 - Repeal "Commend Sedgistan"
A: SC#62 - Repeal "Condemn Swarmlandia"
C: SC#63 - Commend Ballotonia
A: SC#65 - Condemn Punk Reloaded
C: GA#163 - Repeal "Law of the Sea"
A: SC#72 - Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"
C: SC#74 - Condemn Lone Wolves United
C: SC#76 - Repeal "Condemn Thatcherton"
A: SC#81 - Repeal "Condemn Anthony Delasanta"
C: SC#83 - Condemn Automagfreek
C: SC#84 - Repeal "Liberate Islam"
C: SC#111 - Commend Krulltopia

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Unibotian WA Mission
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibotian WA Mission » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:22 am

Ha, awesome pic, Old Man Eloquence.
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Ardchoille
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ardchoille » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:25 am

I've deleted the submitted proposal on the grounds that a repeal must be based on the proposal repealed. (Edited for clarity]

The wording of this repeal suggests that the original proposal could have been rejected -- not would have, could have -- if voting had continued longer. The same could be said of any successful proposal. The mechanics of the vote are not sufficient basis for a repeal.

I've TGd Burchadinger a list of the 10 delegates who had already approved the proposal, on the assumption that he or others will eventually submit a valid repeal.

Another thought on wording: it's usually best to keep the final clause of any repeal clear of clutter -- "Hereby repeals @@name of proposal@@". Following that practice saves writers from inadvertently including new legislation. Commentary is better confined to the clauses before the "repeals" clause.

Oh, and please -- "breach", not "breech".
Last edited by Ardchoille on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sedgistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:31 am

Not to mention that Liberate Free Thought wouldn't have been the 'last WA resolution' by the time this proposal got to vote.

ALSO notes that the last WA resolution was passed by the slimmest margin in NS history. 50.5%


Of course, I was planning on waiting until this passed before complaining about it. (jk)

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Unibotian WASC Mission
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibotian WASC Mission » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:37 am

Not only that, but its not entirely truthful (untruth isn't illegal). 50.5% isn't the slimmest margin in NS history, 64 votes is. The 40 Hour Workweek had an approval rate of 50.3%.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:55 am

Ardchoille wrote:I've deleted the submitted proposal on the grounds that a repeal must be based on the proposal repealed. (Edited for clarity]

See Unibot? :p

Though, I may speak too soon. Ardchoille, is it illegal to submit a proposal that's argument simply is, "We believe the voting was flawed, due to a bug that prevented people from voting late, because the timestamp was incorrect. This would have changed the outcome. The validity of the vote is in question, thus the resolution should be repealed."? Or does a repeal have to argue about specific things within the resolution itself? I'm unsure how to read your quote.

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Unibotian WASC Mission
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibotian WASC Mission » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:05 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Ardchoille wrote:I've deleted the submitted proposal on the grounds that a repeal must be based on the proposal repealed. (Edited for clarity]

See Unibot? :p

Though, I may speak too soon. Ardchoille, is it illegal to submit a proposal that's argument simply is, "We believe the voting was flawed, due to a bug that prevented people from voting late, because the timestamp was incorrect. This would have changed the outcome. The validity of the vote is in question, thus the resolution should be repealed."? Or does a repeal have to argue about specific things within the resolution itself? I'm unsure how to read your quote.


The resolution says it could have changed the outcome.

A resolution needs facts. Did it change the outcome of the resolution? And who was affected by this bug then. You need to provide facts to create a sound argument -- and what is those who are complaining about this bug's argument against the resolution, anyway?

I read Ard's legality violation as asking, what is wrong with the resolution? Not what could be wrong with the resolution. But hey, I'm not Ard, and I have a knack for misinterpreting people, so ....

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:06 pm

Burchadinger wrote:THE Security Council, and The World Assembly as a whole, realizes the resolution ended with a reported time frame of eleven hours left, giving voters a sort of false impression that there was time to spare for a vote to be cast and have a great potential to influence the final say.


So... you want to repeal this resolution... because people procrastinate?

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Glen-Rhodes
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:07 pm

Unibotian WASC Mission wrote:I read Ard's legality violation as asking, what is wrong with the resolution? Not what could be wrong with the resolution. But hey, I'm not Ard, and I have a knack for misinterpreting people, so ....

Yeah, that's why I said I may have spoke too soon. I'm not sure how to read her decision. :\

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Takaram
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Founded: Feb 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Takaram » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:34 pm

This proposal is utterly flawed. First off, 50.5%, while close, is a majority. And as for the part about the time bug, how many people vote in the very last hours of three days* of open voting?

*May be more, may be less, I don't really remember.

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Kalibarr
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:03 pm

Obvious Troll is Obvious.

Just putting that out there.

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A mean old man
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Founded: Jun 27, 2008
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby A mean old man » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:05 pm

Or just plain spam...
A: SC#16 - Repeal "Liberate The Security Council"
A: SC#26 - Commend The Joint Systems Alliance
A: SC#30 - Commend 10000 Islands
A: SC#37 - Condemn NAZI EUROPE
A: SC#38 - Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"
A: GA#149 - On Expiration Dates
C: SC#58 - Repeal "Commend Sedgistan"
A: SC#62 - Repeal "Condemn Swarmlandia"
C: SC#63 - Commend Ballotonia
A: SC#65 - Condemn Punk Reloaded
C: GA#163 - Repeal "Law of the Sea"
A: SC#72 - Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"
C: SC#74 - Condemn Lone Wolves United
C: SC#76 - Repeal "Condemn Thatcherton"
A: SC#81 - Repeal "Condemn Anthony Delasanta"
C: SC#83 - Condemn Automagfreek
C: SC#84 - Repeal "Liberate Islam"
C: SC#111 - Commend Krulltopia

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Mad Sheep Railgun
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Founded: Jun 27, 2009
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mad Sheep Railgun » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:09 pm

What do you suppose causes people to just suddenly go berzerk like that? He's spamming every thread on the forums.
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Unibotian WA Mission
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibotian WA Mission » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:12 pm

Mad Sheep Railgun wrote:What do you suppose causes people to just suddenly go berzerk like that? He's spamming every thread on the forums.


I dunno. Its like people who multi. I mean, like, who does that? ;)
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General Halcones wrote: Look up to Unibot as an example.
Member of Gholgoth | The Capitalis de Societate of The United Defenders League (UDL) | Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL?
World Assembly Card Gallery // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78;

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A mean old man
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby A mean old man » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:12 pm

A severe case of boredom, or perhaps someone hit him in the head with a brick.
A: SC#16 - Repeal "Liberate The Security Council"
A: SC#26 - Commend The Joint Systems Alliance
A: SC#30 - Commend 10000 Islands
A: SC#37 - Condemn NAZI EUROPE
A: SC#38 - Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"
A: GA#149 - On Expiration Dates
C: SC#58 - Repeal "Commend Sedgistan"
A: SC#62 - Repeal "Condemn Swarmlandia"
C: SC#63 - Commend Ballotonia
A: SC#65 - Condemn Punk Reloaded
C: GA#163 - Repeal "Law of the Sea"
A: SC#72 - Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"
C: SC#74 - Condemn Lone Wolves United
C: SC#76 - Repeal "Condemn Thatcherton"
A: SC#81 - Repeal "Condemn Anthony Delasanta"
C: SC#83 - Condemn Automagfreek
C: SC#84 - Repeal "Liberate Islam"
C: SC#111 - Commend Krulltopia

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Mad Sheep Railgun
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Posts: 587
Founded: Jun 27, 2009
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mad Sheep Railgun » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:13 pm

Unibotian WA Mission wrote:
Mad Sheep Railgun wrote:What do you suppose causes people to just suddenly go berzerk like that? He's spamming every thread on the forums.


I dunno. Its like people who multi. I mean, like, who does that? ;)


He's incredibly fast too.
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Kalibarr
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kalibarr » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:13 pm

probably a DOS again.

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Ardchoille
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ardchoille » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:24 am

I'm guessing this thread was treated to a visit by one of the passing trolls? Melkor got the nation, and Pyth killed all of his posts at one fell swoop (except the ones saved for evidence). Like a sort of ballet, it was. Awesome. :D

Now, as to the repeal: it has to refer to what's written in the original resolution, not what happened outside it. Things like unclear wording, unexpected effects, previously unrevealed flaws, unnoticed contradictions.

Your first repeal attempt didn't, and that's why I deleted it.

As a secondary consideration, referring to the voting mechanism may also be metagaming, which until now I'd thought was impossible in an SC proposal.

Like, in the SC you're allowed to refer to Regions, Delegates, passwords, Founders, raiders and defenders, all of which are things individual citizens in your nations can't "see". That pushes the fourth wall right back to the borders of NS.

But it seems to me talking about the mechanisms that count the votes and time their closure and so on is like talking about the actual coding of the game, which even you-the-player can't see (though you can see its effects). So, metagaming.

Still, I didn't delete on those grounds. It was strictly the fact that what you're repealing is the legislation, therefore your reasons for repeal also have to be grounded in the legislation.

So yes, Glen-Rhodes, it is illegal to repeal the resolution on the grounds you list. A repeal wipes out the words and effects of the resolution; so you have to refer to those words and effects to show why they should be wiped out. The list you've got there would be grounds for an appeal, not a repeal.
Last edited by Ardchoille on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Slaytesics
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Ex-Nation

Postby Slaytesics » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:28 am

A mean old man wrote:Prepare yourself for another amazingly bad...
Image

Agreed, please stop the Liberations and repealing >:(
Last edited by Slaytesics on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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