Gun Bans

[Big Jim P]

And one of the things they gave us is the right to bear arms.

And the question now becomes how to handle that right responsibly.

I have addressed that issue. No one listened.

[Chernoslavia]

And one of the things they gave us is the right to bear arms.

And the question now becomes how to handle that right responsibly.

By not putting the blame on the innocent?

[Big Jim P]

And the question now becomes how to handle that right responsibly.

By not putting the blame on the innocent?

Or subjecting them to unwarranted harassment.

[Chernoslavia]

By not putting the blame on the innocent?

Or subjecting them to unwarranted harassment.

Disarming them during a natural disaster is also one.

[Nua Corda]

And the question now becomes how to handle that right responsibly.

I have addressed that issue. No one listened.

They listened. They were not satisfied. There needs to be accountability and responsibility. "I'm plenty responsible, gubernment, leave me alone" doesn't cut it.

And the question now becomes how to handle that right responsibly.

By not putting the blame on the innocent?

Insuring that only the innocent get ahold of guns =! blaming them.

By not putting the blame on the innocent?

Or subjecting them to unwarranted harassment.

Insuring that only the innocent get ahold of guns =! unwarranted harassment.

[Big Jim P]

I have addressed that issue. No one listened.

They listened. They were not satisfied. There needs to be accountability and responsibility. "I'm plenty responsible, gubernment, leave me alone" doesn't cut it.¹

By not putting the blame on the innocent?

Insuring that only the innocent get ahold of guns =! blaming them.

Or subjecting them to unwarranted harassment.

Insuring that only the innocent get ahold of guns =! unwarranted harassment.²

1:My proposal contained accountability and responsibility.

2:Too bad that is not what background checks do.

[Nua Corda]

They listened. They were not satisfied. There needs to be accountability and responsibility. "I'm plenty responsible, gubernment, leave me alone" doesn't cut it.



Insuring that only the innocent get ahold of guns =! blaming them.



Insuring that only the innocent get ahold of guns =! unwarranted harassment.

Too bad that is not what background checks do.

Please explain how checking for criminal record before letting someone buy a gun is not stopping people with criminal records from buying guns.

[Big Jim P]

Too bad that is not what background checks do.

Please explain how checking for criminal record before letting someone buy a gun is not stopping people with criminal records from buying guns.

Criminals buy thier guns on the black market or they steal them. No background checks involved.

Oh, and see my edit to the post you quoted.

[Nua Corda]

Please explain how checking for criminal record before letting someone buy a gun is not stopping people with criminal records from buying guns.

Criminals buy thier guns on the black market or they steal them. No background checks involved.

And why do you suppose they do this? It couldn't possibly be because they're prevented from buying them legally, that would be too logical.

[Nua Corda]

My proposal contained accountability and responsibility.

Unless you changed it, then not really. You advocated doing nothing about private transactions, just to name one. That's neither accountable nor responsible. In fact, it basically makes the illegal gun market legal.

[Greed and Death]

Criminals buy thier guns on the black market or they steal them. No background checks involved.

And why do you suppose they do this? It couldn't possibly be because they're prevented from buying them legally, that would be too logical.

So the law you want already exist.

[Nua Corda]

And why do you suppose they do this? It couldn't possibly be because they're prevented from buying them legally, that would be too logical.

So the law you want already exist.

No. A poor shadow of the laws I want already exist, in some states, for some weapons. It's not good enough, or national enough.

[Big Jim P]

My proposal contained accountability and responsibility.

Unless you changed it, then not really. You advocated doing nothing about private transactions, just to name one. That's neither accountable nor responsible. In fact, it basically makes the illegal gun market legal.

Actually it provides for private transactions between license holders. Care to mention any other perceived shortcomings?

[Big Jim P]

So the law you want already exist.

No. A poor shadow of the laws I want already exist, in some states, for some weapons. It's not good enough, or national enough.

See, this is why gun owners are wary of compromising with gun-control advocates: When we do, you demand more.

[Nua Corda]

Unless you changed it, then not really. You advocated doing nothing about private transactions, just to name one. That's neither accountable nor responsible. In fact, it basically makes the illegal gun market legal.

Actually it provides for private transactions between license holders. Care to mention any other perceived shortcomings?

Well, maybe you could outline it in a clear and concise paragraph, since it's too fragmented for me to piece togather. One page you're advocating licenses, the next you're opposing them. It's confusing, to say the least.

[Big Jim P]

Criminals buy thier guns on the black market or they steal them. No background checks involved.

And why do you suppose they do this? It couldn't possibly be because they're prevented from buying them legally, that would be too logical.

Thus the requirement falls only on the law-abiding, making it undue harassment. Like all gun-control laws, it is the innocent and law-abiding that are being targeted.

[Big Jim P]

Actually it provides for private transactions between license holders. Care to mention any other perceived shortcomings?

Well, maybe you could outline it in a clear and concise paragraph, since it's too fragmented for me to piece togather. One page you're advocating licenses, the next you're opposing them. It's confusing, to say the least.

My original plan, with some enhancement by Dyakovo:

Make safety and marksmanship training available (in high school for the most part with separate training available for those who have already graduated). Upon passing the course you get issued a perpetual license that can only be revoked due to a diagnoses of mental illness, or a relevant criminal act on the part of the licensee. That license being the only thing you need to purchase, own, or carry (open or concealed) a firearm.

Dyas enhancement: Separate endorsements on the license for rifles, shotguns and handguns.

[Nua Corda]

And why do you suppose they do this? It couldn't possibly be because they're prevented from buying them legally, that would be too logical.

Thus the requirement falls only on the law-abiding, making it undue harassment. Like all gun-control laws, it is the innocent and law-abiding that are being targeted.

So, we should just let criminals buy guns legally because you're to damn impatient and lazy to submit to a background check?

[Nua Corda]

Well, maybe you could outline it in a clear and concise paragraph, since it's too fragmented for me to piece togather. One page you're advocating licenses, the next you're opposing them. It's confusing, to say the least.

My original plan, with some enhancement by Dyakovo:

Make training available. Upon passing the course you get issued a perpetual license that can only be revoked due to a diagnoses of mental illness, or a relevant criminal act on the part of the licensee. That license being the only thing you need to purchase, own, or carry (open or concealed) a firearm.

Dyas enhancement: Separate endorsements on the license for rifles, shotguns and handguns.

That's a great start, but it lacks the registration and striation databank piece that would significantly speed up and render more efficent police investigations.

[Big Jim P]

Thus the requirement falls only on the law-abiding, making it undue harassment. Like all gun-control laws, it is the innocent and law-abiding that are being targeted.

So, we should just let criminals buy guns legally because you're to damn impatient and lazy to submit to a background check?

No, we should stiffen the penalties for using a firearm illegally and quit putting the restrictions on the law-abiding.

[Frisivisia]

So, we should just let criminals buy guns legally because you're to damn impatient and lazy to submit to a background check?

No, we should stiffen the penalties for using a firearm illegally and quit putting the restrictions on the law-abiding.

Everyone has the potential to be a murderer, there are no pre-determined shiny, happy, law-abiding people who would never hurt anyone, no matter how drunk and/or angry they are. This idea of "law abiding gun-owners is a bullshit positive generalization that you use to further the idea that guns aren't dangerous.

[Nua Corda]

So, we should just let criminals buy guns legally because you're to damn impatient and lazy to submit to a background check?

No, we should stiffen the penalties for using a firearm illegally and quit putting the restrictions on the law-abiding.

But that still doesn't stop criminals from buying guns at the gun shops that now no longer have to make sure they aren't criminals, because you considered waiting a day to be too inconvenient. Increasing the penalty for murder and outlawing the police is not going to make the murder rate go down.

[Big Jim P]

My original plan, with some enhancement by Dyakovo:

Make training available. Upon passing the course you get issued a perpetual license that can only be revoked due to a diagnoses of mental illness, or a relevant criminal act on the part of the licensee. That license being the only thing you need to purchase, own, or carry (open or concealed) a firearm.

Dyas enhancement: Separate endorsements on the license for rifles, shotguns and handguns.

That's a great start, but it lacks the registration and striation databank piece that would significantly speed up and render more efficent police investigations.

The license IS the registration. It tells the government that the licensee has met the responsibility requirements through training. It doesn't register individual firearms, it registers individual firearm owners.

On thing I left out of the proposal: The license would include a background check prior to issuance, after which no more checks would be required.

[Nua Corda]

That's a great start, but it lacks the registration and striation databank piece that would significantly speed up and render more efficent police investigations.

The license IS the registration. It tells the government that the licensee has met the responsibility requirements through training. It doesn't register individual firearms, it registers individual firearm owners.

On thing I left out of the proposal: The license would include a background check prior to issuance, after which no more checks would be required.

Then you don't understand the point of registration.

[Big Jim P]

The license IS the registration. It tells the government that the licensee has met the responsibility requirements through training. It doesn't register individual firearms, it registers individual firearm owners.

On thing I left out of the proposal: The license would include a background check prior to issuance, after which no more checks would be required.

Then you don't understand the point of registration.

Apparently I do.