You have no information with which to be honest about. You're spewing a theory, not facts.
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by Cerian Quilor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:14 pm
by Lyanna Stark » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:22 pm
"Only one man in a thousand is a leader of men. The other 999 follow women." -Groucho Marx
Unibot: "I've turned you into a defender chick and you've turned me into a respectable human being!"
[11:12pm]Mahaj: omg i have earth's endo
[11:12pm] Mahaj: this is the proudest moment of my defending career
by Antariel » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:00 pm
by Cromarty » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:01 pm
Antariel wrote:I'm sure Uni would be thrilled to consider me a UDL puppet, given our history
Cerian Quilor wrote:There's a difference between breaking the rules, and being well....Cromarty...
<Koth>all sexual orientations must unite under the relative sexiness of madjack
by Whamabama » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:12 pm
by Lyanna Stark » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:25 pm
"Only one man in a thousand is a leader of men. The other 999 follow women." -Groucho Marx
Unibot: "I've turned you into a defender chick and you've turned me into a respectable human being!"
[11:12pm]Mahaj: omg i have earth's endo
[11:12pm] Mahaj: this is the proudest moment of my defending career
by Collector of Souls » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:00 pm
Lyanna Stark wrote:Wham, you've been more active in this thread than you've been as TRR's Delegate in months.
by Astarial » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:26 pm
Lyanna Stark wrote:So has this actually passed anywhere anyways or is this just another startup attempt at something amongst a bunch of regions?
Lyanna Stark wrote:Also, can someone just clarify what is this 'Gatesville' being talked about now with regards to this? Cause the region seems to only have five nations in it..
Unibot III wrote:Cromarty wrote:That's twice you've mentioned Biyah as the titular head or spiritual driving force behind this. You seem to have a serious hangup on him, Uni. He is not the head of this project, it's a group effort organized by Wham and Asta.
Odd, the player who leaked the information said Biyah was the driving force. Interesting to see what facts are being contradicted here. "OH, these documents that make us look really bad aren't real, they just... fake documents.. that we passed onto someone.. to make us look bad! OH, the guy who just couped a sinker isn't our leader... it's the two people in the organization who haven't been involved in coups yet as far as we know!"
Unibot III wrote:Very good investigative journalism, McMasterdonia.
by Unibot III » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:39 pm
He only became involved within the last... oh... month or two?
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Klaus Devestatorie » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:41 pm
Unibot III wrote:Ahha, the old "only a tabloid" drift from Astarial.
by Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:57 pm
The Dourian Embassy wrote:National Sovereignty is a cause that is very near and dear to my heart. I'm assuming most of what's being said about this organization is based on the original post, which doesn't apparently tell the whole story. That said, I think we can all agree that NatSov deserves an organization that is in support of it, and I can get behind such an organization 100%.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:18 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:The Dourian Embassy wrote:National Sovereignty is a cause that is very near and dear to my heart. I'm assuming most of what's being said about this organization is based on the original post, which doesn't apparently tell the whole story. That said, I think we can all agree that NatSov deserves an organization that is in support of it, and I can get behind such an organization 100%.
Whatever happened to Osiris not becoming NatSov? Literally days after the Osiris-Antarctic Oasis treaty, in which you and Madjack and others vehemently denied that Osiris would become NatSov, the region enters into an organization that claims, "We will not allow the World Assembly to dilute national and regional sovereignty." (Also, whatever happened to Madjack's proclamation that Osiris was "independent?" So much for being a principled delegate.)
I don't know how anybody in Osiris can still support Madjack as Pharaoh, or really any other member of government. You guys blatantly lied about in what direction you were planning to take Osiris. I hope the people who were skeptical of the treaty, but gave you guys the benefit of the doubt anyways, wake up and realize that Osiris is turning into NatSov voting bloc.
by Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:34 pm
Cerian Quilor wrote:NatSov is not regional sovreignty and vice-versa. Dourian got it wrong, and you compound his error.
by Whamabama » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:48 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote: This organization needs to drop whatever intentions it has on meddling with the General Assembly.
by Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:02 pm
by Whamabama » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:09 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Oh, please, don't even try this with me. There are very clear overtones here of this "confederation" wanting to be a voting bloc. "National sovereignty" isn't even a concept used in R/D. It's a dog-whistle to GA politics, and anybody involved in the NatSov/IntFed environment knows exactly what that clause is trying to say.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:10 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Cerian Quilor wrote:NatSov is not regional sovreignty and vice-versa. Dourian got it wrong, and you compound his error.
The Charter explicitly mentions national sovereignty.
Statement of Intent, Article 3: We will not allow the World Assembly to dilute national and regional sovereignty.
It's very clear that this organization has plans with the World Assembly. It showed up in the "leaked" draft, and their own FAQ states that there will be a "space for discussing and planning WA proposals." While the organization doesn't dictate how its charter regions vote, my criticism of Madjack and the Osiris government is that it's one more step in a clear trend of turning Osiris into a NatSov voting bloc.
The World Assembly has seen this before. Voting blocs were not fun and they were not conducive to a functioning game. This organization needs to drop whatever intentions it has on meddling with the General Assembly.
by Biyah » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:43 pm
by McMasterdonia » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:56 pm
by Punk Daddy » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:05 pm
by Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:10 pm
Whamabama wrote:Well rest assured we aren't into GA politics, much less aware of any dog whistles. I do know that SovCon is against manipulating any region in regards to their voting, or the choices made in regards to their own policies regarding voting in the WA.
Cerian Quilor wrote:A: Voting Blocs are called Politics, which is part and parcel of nationstates, and B: The organization provides no power to endorse GA resolutions or repeals.
Biyah wrote:We have a WA forum - our focus is not the WA. There is quite a difference.
by Cerian Quilor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:26 pm
by Klaus Devestatorie » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:30 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Whamabama wrote:What intentions?
Oh, please, don't even try this with me. There are very clear overtones here of this "confederation" wanting to be a voting bloc. "National sovereignty" isn't even a concept used in R/D. It's a dog-whistle to GA politics, and anybody involved in the NatSov/IntFed environment knows exactly what that clause is trying to say.
by Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:30 pm
Cerian Quilor wrote:I didn't realize that regions and organizations couldn't involve themselves in whatever parts of NS they wanted, Glen. Are the Gatekeeper of the GA now?
by Whamabama » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:47 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:
None of this will let me "rest assured." The charter specifically mentions a GA-specific idea of "national sovereignty" in the context of NationStates. It doesn't matter if the organization can't dictate how its members vote. There is a clear message being sent, and I don't believe for a second that the crafters of the charter are totally oblivious to how that clause would be perceived by GA regulars.
If SovCon has no intent on meddling where they don't belong, then make it explicitly clear that the organization is not to interfere in any way with the activities of the General Assembly.
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